Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

osarusan · 12-09-2014 10:49AM

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

There is. It's all in the burden of proof for a criminal trial, which is "beyond a reasonable doubt". Just because you fail to reach this burden does not in any way imply the victim was lying. Say if the proof you needed was 95%, and you only got 80%. It's not enough to prove that the accused is guilty, but it would suggest that the victim was very very likely telling the truth and that there'd be 20% or less proof against that.

The whole process begins again in circumstances such as these. The judge didn't declare the accused male not guilty and then turn to the woman and convict her. It all started anew, which, again, required that the alleged offence be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yes, I understand this.

My point is that I don't really agree with the argument that punishing people who make false accusations will make actual assault victims (or at least those who genuinely believe they've been assaulted) less likely to report their assault.

A defendant being found not guilty does not mean the accusation must have been unfounded and malicious, and the accuser will be prosecuted.

kowloon · 13-09-2014 12:09AM

Sociopath2 wrote: »

I was wondering when someone would paint women as the real victims in all this. Not how I thought it would be done, marks for originality.

I think they were just trying to say there is a knock on effect beyond just one guy being falsely accused.

Morag · 13-09-2014 12:43AM

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Unbelievable story here of a woman that claimed her boyfriend raped her. he gets locked for a short time but later bailed until the trial date and then five months later, with the court date looming, she suddenly goes to the Police and admits that she lied.. yet only gets a suspended sentence along with a six month 8pm curfew:

Think this is absolute madness considering the sentence her boyfriend most likely would have received had she not admitted in the end that she had lied.

He should sue the **** out of her, get a massive ammount awarded and have a lean against all her future earnings, get her wages garnished so ever pay day she will see that the money she worked for has gone to him for her lies.

RayM · 13-09-2014 12:54AM

The second I saw this thread, I knew it would feature a Daily Mail article. The Mail is obsessed with reporting stories about false rape claims. It's almost as though they publish them in a deliberate attempt to discourage women from reporting sexual attacks.

catallus · 13-09-2014 02:00AM

RayM wrote: »

The second I saw this thread, I knew it would feature a Daily Mail article. The Mail is obsessed with reporting stories about false rape claims. It's almost as though they publish them in a deliberate attempt to discourage women from reporting sexual attacks.

That's really not fair on the DM, they report lots of stuff

The idea that such things discourage any legitimate reports is vacuous, at best.

tritium · 13-09-2014 08:48AM

RayM wrote: »

The second I saw this thread, I knew it would feature a Daily Mail article. The Mail is obsessed with reporting stories about false rape claims. It's almost as though they publish them in a deliberate attempt to discourage women from reporting sexual attacks.

Assuming these stories are true (and I've no reason to dispute they are) a better question might be why other media outlets are so slow to report them

Grayson · 13-09-2014 08:54AM

catallus wrote: »

That's really not fair on the DM, they report lots of stuff involving what b list celebs are wearing.

FYP

If there's one thing this case shows it shows how hard it is to get a conviction in a rape case. The nature of the crime means that there are rarely any witnesses. There's only the victim and the accused. All too often it's one person saying one thing and another saying the opposite.

I'm honestly amazed that convictions arise from cases that are historical and have no physical evidence. It must take an awful lot of hard work.

Grayson · 13-09-2014 08:58AM

tritium wrote: »

Assuming these stories are true (and I've no reason to dispute they are) a better question might be why other media outlets are so slow to report them

It's a minor story really. Making a false police report, although serious, is not a huge deal. I mean that in relative terms. think of it like this, there's 64 million people in the UK. the UK averages over 1 murder per day, not to mention everything else that goes on. In relative terms, it's a minor story.

Johngoose · 13-09-2014 09:09AM

Feminism and women's liberation gone mad.

Rosy Posy · 13-09-2014 09:22AM

Johngoose wrote: »

Feminism and women's liberation gone mad.

What on earth does this case have to do with sexual equality?

tritium · 13-09-2014 09:27AM

Grayson wrote: »

It's a minor story really. Making a false police report, although serious, is not a huge deal. I mean that in relative terms. think of it like this, there's 64 million people in the UK. the UK averages over 1 murder per day, not to mention everything else that goes on. In relative terms, it's a minor story.

There is however a world of difference between making a false report of say being robbed and claiming falsely to have been raped.

By the criteria you mention most stories that the mail shares with other more mainstream media are also minor. For example the stories of sexual abuse of minors by their teachers would be at least prominently reported by most of the UK media (including TV media) -with the caveat that its only generally true when the accused is male. Strangely there's a much less widespread or rigorous reporting for crimes like this

steddyeddy · 13-09-2014 09:42AM

She not only had a huge impact on this man's life she also potentially made it more difficult for rape victims to come forward. Lock her up and throw away the key. She's a disgusting human being.

The Purveyor of Truth · 13-09-2014 10:00AM

RayM wrote: »

The second I saw this thread, I knew it would feature a Daily Mail article. The Mail is obsessed with reporting stories about false rape claims. It's almost as though they publish them in a deliberate attempt to discourage women from reporting sexual attacks.

Talk about looking at things upside down. People just love having a pop at the DM, no matter what stories they cover. I would say only around 1 in 100 articles the DM writes are worthy of the non-stop condemnation they receive.

At least they bloody well covered the story. The only paper that did in fact.

_Kaiser_ · 13-09-2014 10:10AM

Grayson wrote: »

It's a minor story really. Making a false police report, although serious, is not a huge deal. I mean that in relative terms. think of it like this, there's 64 million people in the UK. the UK averages over 1 murder per day, not to mention everything else that goes on. In relative terms, it's a minor story.

Minor story?? Not a huge deal?? Tell that to the lad who was wrongly imprisoned for nearly 2 weeks and who will be lucky if this doesn't follow him around for the rest of his life.

The Purveyor of Truth · 13-09-2014 10:25AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Minor story?? Not a huge deal?? Tell that to the lad who was wrongly imprisoned for nearly 2 weeks and who will be lucky if this doesn't follow him around for the rest of his life.

Exactly and seems odd to me that this story is not being wildly covered, as they usually tend to be. Most recent one being Rhiannon Brooker, the law student who was jailed. Almost every newspaper and media outlet covered that story at the time. Google her name and you'll see them all, yet this one has got zero coverage (apart from the DM).

One wonders why stories about those who have lied about getting raped and are jailed because of it, get wall to wall reporting, yet stories about those that have gotten off scott free get almost none.

13-09-2014 10:27AM

Like I said I did google and got "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe". Might have something to do with it? Maybe the guy got his name wiped off it. That would be good

_Kaiser_ · 13-09-2014 10:51AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Like I said I did google and got "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe". Might have something to do with it? Maybe the guy got his name wiped off it. That would be good

Yes but even at that the damage could be done.. think about it - you're a recruiter or a manager who's considering the guy and you do a search only to get a cryptic result like that.

Do you move on?

13-09-2014 11:02AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yes but even at that the damage could be done.. think about it - you're a recruiter or a manager who's considering the guy and you do a search only to get a cryptic result like that.

Do you move on?

I didn't say the damage wasn't done, of course it is, they were wondering why google was giving no results and I suggested that might be some of it

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 11:16AM

I don't know enough about this particular case, or the people involved, to be able to make a comment either way. The article in the OP presents all sorts of confusing and conflicting details in one way, and then not enough detail in another way.

I'm not immediately given to jumping on any bandwagons saying the woman should do jail time etc, she got a two year suspended sentence, which is more than the girl who made a false allegation of rape against me got at the time. There were a number of factors involved in the case, which I won't go into here, but suffice to say that it ended up worse for the girl in question, and the ostracism she suffered, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. She was 15 at the time, and people who hardly even knew me, sought to punish her on my behalf, because they had their own reasons for trying to do so.

It didn't ruin my life at all, and ten years later when I met that girl again and she apologised, I told her it was unnecessary, and we've remained friends since. That's a very specific case though, just like many of the specific cases mentioned in this thread, and like the specific case mentioned in the OP. I wouldn't support calls to make new laws for the specific circumstances of false allegations of rape based off news articles where the details are sketchy at best.

I also found it somewhat interesting that the Daily Mail is generally considered a tabloid rag in After Hours for it's piss poor lack of journalism standards, yet when it reports a case like this, it is ironically considered The Purveyor of Truth.

catallus · 13-09-2014 11:19AM

Daily Mail gets a bad rap cos it tells it like it is.

Grayson · 13-09-2014 11:23AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Minor story?? Not a huge deal?? Tell that to the lad who was wrongly imprisoned for nearly 2 weeks and who will be lucky if this doesn't follow him around for the rest of his life.

Did you read the bit where I said in relative terms, in a country of 60+ million people. Or did your outrage fry your ability to read and behave rationally?

Every crime is significant to the victim (and the perp too I guess) but that does not mean that it's newsworthy.

frozenfrozen · 13-09-2014 11:30AM

I'll have to start wearing a dash cam in public

whatdoicare · 13-09-2014 01:18PM

This is a very odd story....he "tried it on" until she eventually gave in and had consensual sex?

How exactly did he "try it on"? Was he grabbing at her or did he just ask multiple times? Did he ask nicely or did he threaten her?
How did she get the bruises, why was she being restrained? How drunk was she exactly that she needed to be restrained? How drunk was he? Where were the bruises on her body? Did he have bruises or scratches?

I don't fully understand, if it was a lie, why put herself through it? A rape investigation is pretty intrusive physically on a woman, she would have had to go through swabs, blood tests and internal exams.

There's just too many details left out of this story to fully appreciate if it was a lie. There are cases when women have gone back on their word and said it was a lie when it wasn't after being threatened or the case is to emotionally draining to the woman or they feel unsupported or unable to cope. There have also been cases when it has been a lie - but why did she lie? She was with this guy for twelve years and all of a sudden decided to accuse him of rape? Was she in an abusive relationship? Was she just bored?

It says in the article that her friend convinced her it was rape - maybe it was and she didn't fully believe herself that it was or understand how it would have been rape (some people have a very set idea of what rape is and if a situation doesn't match it then they dismiss it)- so when the questioning got really tough she wasn't able to explain it convincingly or with conviction - or just plain decided to go the easier route of dropping it altogether.

Who knows what happened - only those who were there and it seems that it was a very messy relationship to begin with, lots of grey areas here.

tritium · 13-09-2014 01:26PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

This is a very odd story....he "tried it on" until she eventually gave in and had consensual sex?

How exactly did he "try it on"? Was he grabbing at her or did he just ask multiple times? Did he ask nicely or did he threaten her?
How did she get the bruises, why was she being restrained? How drunk was she exactly that she needed to be restrained? How drunk was he? Where were the bruises on her body? Did he have bruises or scratches?

I don't fully understand, if it was a lie, why put herself through it? A rape investigation is pretty intrusive physically on a woman, she would have had to go through swabs, blood tests and internal exams.

There's just too many details left out of this story to fully appreciate if it was a lie. There are cases when women have gone back on their word and said it was a lie when it wasn't after being threatened or the case is to emotionally draining to the woman or they feel unsupported or unable to cope. There have also been cases when it has been a lie - but why did she lie? She was with this guy for twelve years and all of a sudden decided to accuse him of rape? Was she in an abusive relationship? Was she just bored?

It says in the article that her friend convinced her it was rape - maybe it was and she didn't fully believe herself that it was or understand how it would have been rape (some people have a very set idea of what rape is and if a situation doesn't match it then they dismiss it)- so when the questioning got really tough she wasn't able to explain it convincingly or with conviction - or just plain decided to go the easier route of dropping it altogether.

Who knows what happened - only those who were there and it seems that it was a very messy relationship to begin with, lots of grey areas here.

You know I've a funny feeling that if posters were being so dubious about a story where someone had actually been raped you might be the first to protest.....

Let's see, she's admitted to lying but nah, let's disregard this, there's some smoke there so let's find the fire. Clearly she must have been pressured, or in some way must be the victim here- my god, look she has bruises!!! (As opposed to, you know, the actual victim here, the man (yep, wow a man as a victim, who would have thought it))

Poor bastard, this is why rape accused need anonymnity. Always someone who doesn't get the innocent till proven guilty bit.

Shakespeare's Sister · 13-09-2014 01:28PM

Aye. There are people evil enough to blatantly lie that someone raped/sexually assaulted/abused them, but that doesn't mean there can't be cases where the person truly feels like they were violated, but then withdraw the allegation. Nobody can fully appreciate the mixed emotions and fears and distorted thoughts until in the situation.

whatdoicare · 13-09-2014 01:31PM

tritium wrote: »

You know I've a funny feeling that if posters were being so dubious about a story where someone had actually been raped you might be the first to protest.....

Let's see, she's admitted to lying but nah, let's disregard this, there's some smoke there so let's find the fire. Clearly she must have been pressured, or in some way must be the victim here- my god, look she has bruises!!! (As opposed to, you know, the actual victim here, the man (yep, wow a man as a victim, who would have thought it))

Poor bastard, this is why rape accused need anonymnity. Always someone who doesn't get the innocent till proven guilty bit.

clearly you didn't read all of my post.

tritium · 13-09-2014 01:37PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Aye. There are people evil enough to blatantly lie that someone raped/sexually assaulted/abused them, but that doesn't mean there can't be cases where the person truly feels like they were violated, but then withdraw the allegation. Nobody can truly appreciate the mixed emotions and fears and distorted thoughts until in the situation.

The problem with that of course is we have the whole grey area of just because someone believes they were raped doesn't mean they were (or indeed vice versa). Given that rape has a different legal interpretation from country to country and also has a broad and often vague interpretation depending on which group you talk to (the can you consent if you've been drinking debate springs to mind) its often not clear cut, and hence the statistics about conviction and reporting rates are very fluid. U fortunately its also a crime that has been hijacked by a number of groups to drive a broader agenda.

In this case though her admission seems pretty comprehensive, albeit with some nifty footwork by her defence lawyer in mitigation

tritium · 13-09-2014 01:39PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

clearly you didn't read all of my post.

Let's see: paragraph 2 lots of conjecture and alternative possibilities
Paragraph 3 you ask why would someone lie when the tests are so intrusive
Paragraph 4 hypothesises lots of why would she lie questions that can only sow further doubt (note you missed that she might be evil or disturbed)
Paragraph5 you out and our say maybe it was rape but she wasn't able to handle the thought of pursuing it

Did I miss anything on my whistle stop tour?

whatdoicare · 13-09-2014 01:41PM

tritium wrote: »

Let's see: paragraph 2 lots of conjecture and alternative possibilities
Paragraph 3

Yes, yes..try to read it all. I know it was a long post but you should at least try.

tritium · 13-09-2014 01:43PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

Yes, yes..try to read it all. I know it was a long post but you should at least try.

Now now, give a chance to edit, don't worry I'll get to it all.....

Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

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