Irish government jet

Negative_G · 04-09-2014 11:07PM

man98 wrote: »

The Learjet is inefficient, we already have a few people in the Air Corps trained to maintain a Casa 235. Also, they do about 300mph cruise speed, which isn't bad.

Inefficient in what respect?

The Air Corps have had the Casa's for 20 years, of course they will have personnel who maintain them, I'm not sure I see that as enough to justify purchasing another Casa while labelling the Learjet as inefficient.

By that logic Beechcraft should be procured as I'm sure the knowledge base still exists.

Peregrine · 04-09-2014 11:10PM

sully2010 wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find photos of the interior of the Gulfstream? Does it have a 23 year old cabin too?

It's not exactly plush..

I lost my pictures, all I could find online were these pictures from 1992 of Albert Reynolds in it from the Irish Times and the Irish Independent.

sully2010 · 04-09-2014 11:52PM

Nimr wrote: »

It's not exactly plush..

I lost my pictures, all I could find online were these pictures from 1992 of Albert Reynolds in it from the Irish Times and the Irish Independent.

Cheers for them, it does look fairly dated even in Bertie's time.

smurfjed · 06-09-2014 10:31AM

Nice to see that todays Indo was reporting on this, apparently the boards community were wrong, the aircraft is actually a LEAR IV.

I wonder if the IAA will change my type rating

Peregrine · 06-09-2014 10:57AM

The existing 23-year-old Lear IV government jet has been grounded at a US air base for the past five weeks.

...

One source has told the Irish Independent that the Lear is a very powerful jet capable of getting to most places in the world within 12 hours and its military classification gives great flexibility in relation to international flight regulations and air insurance.

The Gulfstream's absence at present reduces the Air Corps aircraft complement to just three, a smaller Learjet and two fishery surveillance aircraft.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/military-chiefs-want-state-to-purchase-40m-jet-30566287.html#sthash.2vqqOFcv.dpuf

smurfjed · 06-09-2014 11:03AM

Not the mention the fact that the GIV doesnt have a 12 hour range, so they should use 8 hours or 17 hours with a fuel stop

Peregrine · 06-09-2014 11:04AM

Jesus Christ, is this what counts as journalism nowadays?

RZoran · 06-09-2014 01:14PM

I would dump the Gulfstream, Learjet, Cessna's, Defender, and CASA's and replace with a fleet of Pilatus PC-12's. Realistically the only places the government would need to be in an emergency would 99% of the time be Brussels or somewhere in the EU. Aer Lingus also flies daily to Washington DC and NYC and if they didn't want to use commercial service they can charter a jet within a few hours for those limited occasions but realistically major overseas trips are planned weeks/months in advance.

Meanwhile the Pilatus PC-12's can be used for ministerial transport (up to 9 passengers), medivac, fisheries & law enforcement patrol, prisoner transport, as parachute platform, limited troop/cargo movement, off-field operations. Could even make it to North Africa refuel and carry on to a country like Chad/Liberia where realistically they could be deployed on non-paved temporary airfields in support of the Army (obviously if they had deployable maintenance and support personnel).

Can't post images because of my post count but can see a rough estimate of range @ oi58.tinypic.com/4gji8n.jpg

tayto lover · 06-09-2014 01:16PM

Still amazed that we have a jet to fly these leeches and parasites around in comfort.
Aer Lingus and Ryanair are good enough.

Graham · 06-09-2014 01:32PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Still amazed that we have a jet to fly these leeches and parasites around in comfort.
Aer Lingus and Ryanair are good enough.

We have a jet (or should have a jet) because it is often the fastest or only way to ensure that the people elected to represent our nation are on the ground on our behalf when and where they are needed.

If you believe those people are no longer representing the interests of the country, the solution is not to remove the tools required to do the job. The solution is to be found at the ballot box.

tayto lover · 06-09-2014 01:35PM

Graham wrote: »

We have a jet (or should have a jet) because it is often the fastest or only way to ensure that the people elected to represent our nation are on the ground on our behalf when and where they are needed.

If you believe those people are no longer representing the interests of the country, the solution is not to remove the tools required to do the job. The solution is to be found at the ballot box.

I know and i've been trying.

Graham · 06-09-2014 01:39PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I know and i've been trying.

While you're trying would you mind if we continued to provide our ELECTED representatives the tools they require to continue to represent us or would you rather the nations voice went unheard while our government wait for a bus?

tayto lover · 06-09-2014 01:43PM

Graham wrote: »

While you're trying would you mind if we continued to provide our ELECTED representatives the tools they require to continue to represent us or would you rather the nations voice went unheard while our government wait for a bus?

Ha if you think we're being listened to abroad then you need to think again.
We're only there for the lecture and the odd little pat on the head.

Electric Sheep · 06-09-2014 01:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry we can't attend this very important short notice meeting in the middle of the night we have no way of getting there.

Governments are not 9-5 Monday to Friday or to an airline schedule.

The world WON'T wait while we await the arrival of the only weekly scheduled flight to wherever.

They won't re-schedule or delay a meeting till we can get there.

What will happen though is the Learjet 45 and there is only one will be used till it breaks down and then a replacement in the next electoral term WILL have to be found.

Yes, because the world is waiting with bated breath for the irish leaders to arrive. So often.

Graham · 06-09-2014 01:47PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha if you think we're being listened to abroad then you need to think again.
We're only there for the lecture and the odd little pat on the head.

I'm sorry, you appear to have mistaken me for someone leaning against the parish pump. Politics forum is that way ->

Meanwhile I would be delighted if our Government had a reliable means of transportation at their disposal to continue to represent our interests overseas which is the topic at hand.

EchoIndia · 06-09-2014 01:49PM

I thought this was an aviation forum, not one for people to grind their political axes.

tayto lover · 06-09-2014 01:49PM

Graham wrote: »

I'm sorry, you appear to have mistaken me for someone leaning against the parish pump. Politics forum is that way ->

Meanwhile I would be delighted if our Government had a reliable means of transportation at their disposal to continue to represent out interests overseas which is the topic at hand.

Ok but I was just stating my opinion that we don't need one and that they don't deserve one.

Preset No.3 · 06-09-2014 02:08PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Ok but I was just stating my opinion that we don't need one and that they don't deserve one.

You've dived into an aviation forum to spout about the issues of the government. It's old, boring and tiring and frankly NOBODY here is interested!

If you want to talk about the technical specs of a GIV, or the latest routings between DUB and STN, you're welcome to stay!

SpaceTime · 06-09-2014 02:19PM

sully2010 wrote: »

Cheers for them, it does look fairly dated even in Bertie's time.

I thought they were world maps on the walls! They're actually damaged wall linings?

To be fair, we're fair from the bling-bling dictatorship style setup. They're flying around in a clapped out business jet with the wallpaper peeling off inside.

I'd be more concerned that if the aircraft's in that kind of a state (seeing pic with Bertie) inside that it's probably long past its best before date and could maybe even risk crashing.

Pretty much every country on earth has some kind of an aircraft for flying representatives to various destinations that they genuinely need to be at.

The only proviso I would have is that the use of the state transport services by politicians and civil servants is fully transparent and can be audited by anyone who wishes to browse a website showing who flew where and why.

Graham · 06-09-2014 02:34PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

I thought they were world maps on the walls! They're actually damaged wall linings?

To be fair, we're fair from the bling-bling dictatorship style setup. They're flying around in a clapped out business jet with the wallpaper peeling off inside.

I only just realised that's a map on the wall, I initially thought it was just a very grubby/damp spot which given the age of the machine wouldn't have surprised me at all.

You're right about being far from the bling, I'd imagine the pointy-end of an EI A330 would be considerably more comfortable for long journeys.

Tenger · 06-09-2014 02:35PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Ok but I was just stating my opinion that we don't need one and that they don't deserve one.

Tayto lover, this is a discussion about a resource that the Government of this country requires.
The ability to travel outside of the restrictions of commerical timetables/short notice/cost of charters etc. is needed.
Regardless of who is actually in govt at the time and their perceived ability or lack thereof.

Any more political posts and you will get a holiday from boards.ie.

SpaceTime · 06-09-2014 02:41PM

Graham wrote: »

I only just realised that's a map on the wall, I initially thought it was just a very grubby/damp spot which given the age of the machine wouldn't have surprised me at all.

You're right about being far from the bling, I'd imagine the pointy-end of an EI A330 would be considerably more comfortable for long journeys.

As far as I am aware, they do use EI (or other) scheduled services for long haul. The Government Jet is really only used as a backstop to get to places where they can't schedule ahead or where the location's really awkward.

I think people forget sometimes that when a state delegation goes to some meeting, it's not just the politicians who go - there are various civil servants and also often quite large volumes of paperwork and equipment for stands and events and various things.

It's like a little pop-up embassy in some ways.

When you start paying for business class tickets (which would be necessary as you'd need flexibility on dates and various things like that) and then start adding heavy luggage requirements and possibly short notice bookings as people are added on / removed for various crisis debates and short notice meetings then your costs for commercial bookings go through the roof.

You also have a situation where you're going to have to fly a group of people to do seriously tough negotiations a lot of the time to a location and perhaps have them back within 24 to 48 hours without having everyone utterly wrecked too.

A lot of large companies have access to this kind of transport, never mind states.

Katunga · 06-09-2014 03:25PM

The government are in serious need of a new or a few years old aircraft. I think Bombardier Global Express would be a good option. But I think a 4 or 5 year old 737-700 would be a good fit, as they have a poor market value at the moment a large amount of 737-700 have been scraped! 3 737-700 have been scraped this year at the company I work for, all of them less than 12 years old. Also 737 structure tends to last longer without structural problems the the A320 series. I speaking for a Maintenance point of view and what I see happen with both the 737NG and a320 series. Also 737NG can can have a faster turn around time than the A320 series.

L1011 · 06-09-2014 03:30PM

Katunga wrote: »

Also 737NG can can have a faster turn around time than the A320 series.

That'd be in pax configuration, it'll be different for a BBJ config and also not as much of an issue anyway.

318s and 736s are practically unsaleable now and worth more as parts if they did go down the road of converting a former pax craft.

smurfjed · 06-09-2014 03:36PM

I'd imagine the pointy-end of an EI A330 would be considerably more comfortable for long journeys.

Extremely true.....

Katunga · 06-09-2014 03:38PM

MYOB wrote: »

That'd be in pax configuration, it'll be different for a BBJ config and also not as much of an issue anyway.

318s and 736s are practically unsaleable now and worth more as parts if they did go down the road of converting a former pax craft.

yes I am completely aware of this I maintain this type of aircraft. it is very easy to recon fig 737NGs only take a 4 hours max to remover all the seats.

Nowhere near as many 318s and 736s around as 737-700 so that is why I said them also the 737-600 don't have winglets.

Graham · 06-09-2014 04:10PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

As far as I am aware, they do use EI (or other) scheduled services for long haul. The Government Jet is really only used as a backstop to get to places where they can't schedule ahead or where the location's really awkward.

I think people forget sometimes that when a state delegation goes to some meeting, it's not just the politicians who go - there are various civil servants and also often quite large volumes of paperwork and equipment for stands and events and various things.

It's like a little pop-up embassy in some ways.

When you start paying for business class tickets (which would be necessary as you'd need flexibility on dates and various things like that) and then start adding heavy luggage requirements and possibly short notice bookings as people are added on / removed for various crisis debates and short notice meetings then your costs for commercial bookings go through the roof.

You also have a situation where you're going to have to fly a group of people to do seriously tough negotiations a lot of the time to a location and perhaps have them back within 24 to 48 hours without having everyone utterly wrecked too.

A lot of large companies have access to this kind of transport, never mind states.

Agreed, the point I was trying to make (badly) was a GIV in the current config is not necessarily a luxurious way to travel when compared to a modern business class cabin on a commercial airliner.

hmmm · 06-09-2014 11:03PM

I'd have thought a sub for someone like Netjets would be sufficient.

Brian Lighthouse · 07-09-2014 12:19AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

I thought they were world maps on the walls! They're actually damaged wall linings?

Those panels contain geographical representations of Islands around Ireland. I think Bertie is sitting in Charlie's chair and that island is Inishvickillane.

sully2010 · 07-09-2014 01:57AM

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

SpaceTime wrote: »

I thought they were world maps on the walls! They're actually damaged wall linings?

Those panels contain geographical representations of Islands around Ireland. I think Bertie is sitting in Charlie's chair and that island is Inishvickillane.

Its Rathlin Island.

Irish government jet

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