Beef in Crisis

PatrickJoseph · 05-09-2014 09:40AM

I see on Twitter that ICSA are protesting at Rathkeale today too

rangler1 · 05-09-2014 09:48AM

ellewood wrote: »

Yea there seems to be a big change coming alright, I just taught when the likes of Paul Nolan is telling a crowd that he sees a shortage of cattle from November for the next several months something must be a miss, because its not that long ago he was at the Iga beef walk saying nearly the opposite.

Whether its the number of cattle in the country or the protests by the IFA that's changing things I don't know, but I know the IFA get a lot of slack at times but maybe there due a bit of credit on this one - the pickets on several different outlets, supermarkets, mc d's seems to have highlighted the beef price problem fairly well to the general public without causing 1 big headache for the general public like a big march or a tractor cade like march does, it seems the small protest every few days really showed anyone I talked to that its not just moany farmers again but because there still at it there must be a real problem.:(

The real problem tho is that even if Paul Nolan is correct when he says that beef should hover at around the E4.00/KG mark it still wont be a big margin business

The Russian ban is going to cause problems now, The Polish beef that was going to Russia is now going to be dumped into Europe, Supplies were just starting to tighten up and a bit of a move up in prices across Europe and England.
Eddie Downey told Ming Flanagan in Castlerea last night to get an APS scheme in Europe immediately.
Incidentally the smart lads in Castlerea last night wanted IFA to block the factories, `surprisingly not many had beef to sell, if they did they mightn't be as keen.....:rolleyes: then they had the cheek to tell us we're afraid of the factories

sandydan · 05-09-2014 05:36PM

rangler1 wrote: »

The Russian ban is going to cause problems now, The Polish beef that was going to Russia is now going to be dumped into Europe, Supplies were just starting to tighten up and a bit of a move up in prices across Europe and England.
Eddie Downey told Ming Flanagan in Castlerea last night to get an APS scheme in Europe immediately.
Incidentally the smart lads in Castlerea last night wanted IFA to block the factories, `surprisingly not many had beef to sell, if they did they mightn't be as keen.....:rolleyes: then they had the cheek to tell us we're afraid of the factories

blocking factories may not reap dividend people think,as well they are mostly located away from population centres and at minute with courts ready to hand out injunctions at drop of a hat, it just might backfire as well. small selective protests illustrating price difference between consumer and fact that no difference or price drop to consumer seems to be thing housewives ive met seem to be on thing they able to grasp

sandydan · 05-09-2014 05:51PM

at mart today Ch seem to hold their own, one agent really upped bids to around €550+ kg for them and higher as well/ at 400kg mark
one animal 960 kg Ch made €1650 i think. frs were poor as per usual, a lot of 650 kg had evidence of holstein and struggled to go over €300+ kg.
some aa were around €300+kg and in lots didn't sell that well.at time i thought auctioneer was struggling to get bids. was late getting in so missed lot

E Downey knows well any thing MIng wants M Mc Guiness wont support imo also i dont believe based on prices in EU and possibility of exporting live to Italy and difficulty of getting Irish meat into Tesco and other stores in UK or NI, that Brussels have as much influence in reducing factory prices to Irish farmers as factories and Civil Service want us to believe

rangler1 · 05-09-2014 05:52PM

sandydan wrote: »

blocking factories may not reap dividend people think,as well they are mostly located away from population centres and at minute with courts ready to hand out injunctions at drop of a hat, it just might backfire as well. small selective protests illustrating price difference between consumer and fact that no difference or price drop to consumer seems to be thing housewives ive met seem to be on thing they able to grasp

Consdering the heat that was at last nights meeting, I was disappointed that more farmers didn't support ICSA in rathkeale.

I said · 05-09-2014 06:33PM

What does the UFU think of the new beef labeling proposals for the island of Ireland?

sandydan · 05-09-2014 06:39PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Consdering the heat that was at last nights meeting, I was disappointed that more farmers didn't support ICSA in rathkeale.

talking of same they are noticeably absent from local radio recently, were really aggressive before local elections imo giving some justification to accusations that they had political links according to some coveney supporters,some recon they are noticeable refined since

Damo810 · 05-09-2014 07:58PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Consdering the heat that was at last nights meeting, I was disappointed that more farmers didn't support ICSA in rathkeale.

If twitter is to be believed the farmers wanted the IFA to sort everything, without their support.

"IFA told from floor: 'its your job to solve these issues. The IFA is not a charitable organization. We are paying you..' "

Thats sillyness, we can achieve nothing if we don't stick together for once, the fact that we can't agree on anything is the reason we are in this mess.

sandydan · 05-09-2014 08:26PM

Damo810 wrote: »

If twitter is to be believed the farmers wanted the IFA to sort everything, without their support.

"IFA told from floor: 'its your job to solve these issues. The IFA is not a charitable organization. We are paying you..' "

Thats sillyness, we can achieve nothing if we don't stick together for once, the fact that we can't agree on anything is the reason we are in this mess.

you have a good point but some one said sometime if farmers arent seen to be angry with efforts of IFA or any organisation to get their dues government will say they are blowing hot air, especially now,as after local election results and general elections just about max 2yrs away aggro like this at grassroots level help top brass to get a sympathetic ear a lot more than you realize

rangler1 · 05-09-2014 08:32PM

Damo810 wrote: »

If twitter is to be believed the farmers wanted the IFA to sort everything, without their support.

"IFA told from floor: 'its your job to solve these issues. The IFA is not a charitable organization. We are paying you..' "

Thats sillyness, we can achieve nothing if we don't stick together for once, the fact that we can't agree on anything is the reason we are in this mess.

Thought that was the stupidest attitude of the night, really don't know why Eddie/henry etc bother. no one should have to take that s..t.
It wouldn't be me, having no cattle I just stayed out of the flak last night

Abfg · 05-09-2014 11:51PM

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

tomwaterford · 06-09-2014 12:02AM

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

the thing is....they will just get the gaurds to force it through...see the long running shell pipeline dispute in mayo

how many can realistically afford to not sell anything for months on end....two weeks is nothing

sandydan · 06-09-2014 12:20AM

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldn't be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

im afraid competition authority has fairly extensive powers and their anti competition opinion is capable of doing wreck given right PR backing which factory owners and consumers watchdog would use to max detriment of farmer.
i can guarantee you after last time when IFA had to practically disband to prevent a financial windfall(imo) for meat factories and fines to courts i think we should give that option a wide berth for now and concentrate on PR exercise of exposing goalposts changing of standards of meat factories backed by powers that be imo.
with the" no prices reduction to consumers despite price reduction to producers" publicity that current demos are highlighting at minute i think we need to carefully ratchet up publicity campaign to focus on that issue to get consumers on our side, its not something factories can explain easily no doubt helps local butcher trade as well. correct me if wrong but Larry doesn't need to bring Polish carcasses into Ireland to reprocess for export to markets abroad.
. is there any guarantee that carcasses imported from there originate there and are what they are supposed to be eg" Hereford beef" carcasses just my opinion thats all

Abfg · 06-09-2014 08:41AM

Forget about the IFA they will not bite the hand that feeds them! Its time to wind up that shower and start again. Look at the level they have let farming drop to, they should hang their collective heads in shame and disband!!!!

whelan2 · 06-09-2014 09:07AM

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

Farmer Pudsey · 06-09-2014 09:31AM

whelan2 wrote: »

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

I think this issue will resolve over next few years. With milk quota's a good few larger beef farmers with large blocks of lands for milking platforms will change over to milk. You will also see lads look at it being more viable than having 30 sucklers if they need the money. Land will also be tied up contract rearing. Diary farmers with lesser value calves will cull same. This will all reduce supply.

rangler1 · 06-09-2014 09:54AM

Abfg wrote: »

Forget about the IFA they will not bite the hand that feeds them! Its time to wind up that shower and start again. Look at the level they have let farming drop to, they should hang their collective heads in shame and disband!!!!

I think the lack of support for the protest in rathkeale has shown the lack of bottle in the likes of you,
If farmers wanted the fight brought to the factory gate, they would have been there, a lot of farmers want action as long as they're not asked to help

Abfg · 06-09-2014 09:57AM

Nothing will be resolved until Larry is stopped. He controls the beef price with his feedlots, contract rearing and importing beef into this country with help from his right hand men in the farmers journal and Goverment.

Abfg · 06-09-2014 10:08AM

rangler1 wrote: »

I think the lack of support for the protest in rathkeale has shown the lack of bottle in the likes of you,
If farmers wanted the fight brought to the factory gate, they would have been there, a lot of farmers want action as long as they're not asked to help

The thing the IFA dont realise is they have lost the support of a huge amount of farmers in the country after the way the dealt with the single farm payment. Nobody trusts these organisations anymore so why would they stand behind a rag with their name on it.

rangler1 · 06-09-2014 10:14AM

Abfg wrote: »

The thing the IFA dont realise is they have lost the support of a huge amount of farmers in the country after the way the dealt with the single farm payment. Nobody trusts these organisations anymore so why would they stand behind a rag with their name on it.

Hadn't heard that excuse before.......no point in any organisation going to the factory gate so......so much saved.
I suppose it depends how bad you're hurting and whether you put your principles first

td5man · 06-09-2014 11:04AM

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

A French style protest is what's needed.

mf240 · 06-09-2014 11:05AM

Rangler. Its a great idea to throw back the line "what did you do" to any farmer that questions the IFA. Top marks to the spin doctor who advised ye to take that stance.

Reality is ye didnt do anything worthwhile. Glut is nearly over now and price will rise and ye will claim credit.

No appetite to tackle the real issues with lack of competition and the stranglehold one man has on the offal collection.

Larry has ye in his pocket so ye wont rock the boat too much.

And no I didnt do anything but then im not getting a wage plus expences so dont ask me to dothe job ye are being handsomely rewarded for.

rangler1 · 06-09-2014 12:02PM

mf240 wrote: »

Rangler. Its a great idea to throw back the line "what did you do" to any farmer that questions the IFA. Top marks to the spin doctor who advised ye to take that stance.

Reality is ye didnt do anything worthwhile. Glut is nearly over now and price will rise and ye will claim credit.

No appetite to tackle the real issues with lack of competition and the stranglehold one man has on the offal collection.

Larry has ye in his pocket so ye wont rock the boat too much.

And no I didnt do anything but then im not getting a wage plus expences so dont ask me to dothe job ye are being handsomely rewarded for.

I'm a farmer the same as everyone else, don't tell me I have a wage, and we're not allowed expenses for protests so I'm well entitled to ask why you're not bothered,
lack of competition is always being investigated, if you want to put the CAs decision up here.......there is no cartel in meat factories....are you happy now
As for the glut, I said a couple weeks ago it was over, (doesn't say the price is going to go up)

Quota protected dairy farmer telling me I'm handsomely rewarded is a it bit ironic don't you think

How many times do I have to tell you that very few of the farmers in IFA have any thing to do with funding of the organisation.

rangler1 · 06-09-2014 12:23PM

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

That's not going to happen, I think mf240 has shown you why it won't work,
That's what I get if I go looking for protestors

Damo810 · 06-09-2014 02:20PM

A new user coming in here and straight away criticizing IFA, not posting anywhere else, bit unusual, is it not?

Everyone criticizing the IFA for lack of action, but A)No one ever provides an alternative course of action for them to take and B)Are they not the only ones protesting at the moment? Even when they do it's hard to get a number of farmers behind them.

You cannot expect them to do everything themselves, when other unions strike they strike together, but paddy farmers wants everything done for him without any support from him at all? time to get real lads.

Damo810 · 06-09-2014 02:23PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I think this issue will resolve over next few years. With milk quota's a good few larger beef farmers with large blocks of lands for milking platforms will change over to milk. You will also see lads look at it being more viable than having 30 sucklers if they need the money. Land will also be tied up contract rearing. Diary farmers with lesser value calves will cull same. This will all reduce supply.

Will there not be a heck more cows in this country Puds? The arrival of sexed semen means beef bulls can also be used to mop up a large portion of dairy herds meaning we have even more beef bred weanlings every year, with less suitable for export. I don't think there will be much of a drop in supply of beef, especially when you consider a number of substantial tillage farmers are also converting over too.

Damo810 · 06-09-2014 02:39PM

whelan2 wrote: »

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

Does anyone have the official numbers of our kill? How much in an oversupply are we?

If this glut is the cause of beef dropping to €3.60 a kg then any idea of food harvest 2020 is truly gone out the window.

Secondly, even if there was no oversupply, would we be getting a fair price for our beef. Didn't teagasc say we needed at least €4/Kg and €4.50/kg when accounting for volatility. Would we see €4.50 in any time other than a deep under supply? Even with an oversupply, is it acceptable that we take a 17% reduction in price while there is a drop of 0.07% in retail price. We're getting less and less and factories/retailers are getting more and more.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I don't think our problem is purely that we're in an oversupply..

Abfg · 06-09-2014 02:43PM

Damo810 wrote: »

A new user coming in here and straight away criticizing IFA, not posting anywhere else, bit unusual, is it not?

Everyone criticizing the IFA for lack of action, but A)No one ever provides an alternative course of action for them to take and B)Are they not the only ones protesting at the moment? Even when they do it's hard to get a number of farmers behind them.

You cannot expect them to do everything themselves, when other unions strike they strike together, but paddy farmers wants everything done for him without any support from him at all? time to get real lads.

Will the IFA stop taking the subsides off Larry and show the farmers of Ireland that the are not just proclamating outside factory gates and at the same time getting their pockets lined at the back door. I can guarantee you that wont happen, I'd say membership is at an all time low and dropping by the day!!!!

Damo810 · 06-09-2014 02:57PM

Abfg wrote: »

Will the IFA stop taking the subsides off Larry and show the farmers of Ireland that the are not just proclamating outside factory gates and at the same time getting their pockets lined at the back door. I can guarantee you that wont happen, I'd say membership is at an all time low and dropping by the day!!!!

So where has the threat of levies stopped the IFA doing something? Are they not the only ones protesting across the country?

How do you suggest they collect levies? Should everyone just pay a flat rate or do you think everyone should be at it for free?

Base price · 06-09-2014 03:04PM

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm a farmer the same as everyone else, don't tell me I have a wage, and we're not allowed expenses for protests so I'm well entitled to ask why you're not bothered,
lack of competition is always being investigated, if you want to put the CAs decision up here.......there is no cartel in meat factories....are you happy now
As for the glut, I said a couple weeks ago it was over, (doesn't say the price is going to go up)

Quota protected dairy farmer telling me I'm handsomely rewarded is a it bit ironic don't you think

How many times do I have to tell you that very few of the farmers in IFA have any thing to do with funding of the organisation.

Well someone is telling porkies so.
According to the handout in the IFJ a couple of weeks ago, funding comes from three sources a) 35% from EIF levy, b) 50% from membership fees and c) 15% other income sources such as FBD Trust and IFA Member Services.
So if I read the figures correctly 50% of funds comes directly from memberships i.e. farmers.
My gripe with the IFA is the lack of action earlier on this spring when factories were really acting the mick with prices. Why did they not protest outside of supermarkets etc in March, April etc. This lack of action allowed the factories to reap vast financial rewards on the back of us beef farmers.
As early as last October prices were under pressure - here we are nearly a year later before there is action.

Beef in Crisis

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