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School Religion Out Out Out

13

Comments

  • #62
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    By all means educate children on the various different religions from a historical and cultural understanding viewpoint but if you want to indoctrinate your child then please do it on your own time and dime.


  • #63
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    boostenergy wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with bombs, if someone has family from both sides of the cultural divide they are less likely to take up any of the cultures due to not wishing to offend either side of the family.
    Well apart from soccer, my neighbours cousins always used to wear their Rangers and England shirts to their house (in a 90%) catholic townland, inter-marriage just leads to problems that people can do without.

    I agree, why can't all races and ethnicities just stick to their own... mixing is sick and wrong.


  • #64
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    boostenergy wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with bombs, if someone has family from both sides of the cultural divide they are less likely to take up any of the cultures due to not wishing to offend either side of the family.
    Well apart from soccer, my neighbours cousins always used to wear their Rangers and England shirts to their house (in a 90%) catholic townland, inter-marriage just leads to problems that people can do without.

    Maybe you are right. We've seen what happens when flags are brought up. Making them choose their own foreign football team's jersey to wear as they vandalise the catholics/protestants homes nearby might be too much for them too handle.

    Would be a terrible shame to see anything happen to NI culture.


  • #65
    boostenergy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭boostenergy


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Maybe you are right. We've seen what happens when flags are brought up. Making them choose their own foreign football team's jersey to wear as they vandalise the catholics/protestants homes nearby might be too much for them too handle.

    Would be a terrible shame to see anything happen to NI culture.

    You've been in Belfast too much, I don't think you are aware of Ulsters rich Gaelic culture, sure you lot even have a TV channel named after one of our characters, Setanta Sports.

    Also, what is the RoI culture? completely centred on St. Paddy, sure wasn't he buried in N.Ireland?


  • #66
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,995 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    St. Patrick can feck off, this island would have been far better off without him and his nonsense.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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  • #67
    SweetChaos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 306 ✭✭SweetChaos


    Zacchaus was a greedy little man , he cheated all the people in the land , with their rent they couldnt pay he would take their homes away and their furniture and everything they had .. Zacchaus Zacchaus NOBODY LIKES Zacchaus

    Anyone remember that ?

    2nd class and 6th class far to much time is taken up with religion colouring in pictures and trips to the church for preparation for communions/confirmations and the kids probably wont set foot in a church again till their wedding
    It needs to be scrapped it had no place in schools anymore


  • #68
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    SweetChaos wrote: »
    It needs to be scrapped it had no place in schools anymore

    Why do people continue to have church weddings etc, if they have such an issue with the church. It is particularly prevalent in the RCC. I don't buy the no other option nonsense. There are educate together school and private schools out there.


  • #69
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I'm all for the removal of religion classes from school in which there are elements of indoctrination, or preparation for religious ceremonies or events.

    Classes about religion, and looking at different festivals and celebrations of different religions, would be fine with me.


  • #70
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Religion could be taught as part of a C.S.P.E curriculum, but should be taken out of schools. If Religious people of all denominations get into a huff, they can be gently reminded that they have a time and place for that, and to leave Schools for Education.


  • #71
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #72
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Itzy wrote: »
    Religion could be taught as part of a C.S.P.E curriculum, but should be taken out of schools. If Religious people of all denominations get into a huff, they can be gently reminded that they have a time and place for that, and to leave Schools for Education.

    Non-religious people are in a sizable minority in this country. Why should they dictate what goes on in the educational system? Whether we like it or not RC makes up a huge majority is our country. I am not RC before you ask.
    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Remarks like this do little to support the case for the removal of religion from schools.


  • #73
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    St. Patrick can feck off, this island would have been far better off without him and his nonsense.

    But without him, we would still have snakes...oh wait....we still have snakes anyway.

    They're called Politicians.....

    Ok I'm on board. Feck him!


  • #74
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    I wouldn't bother getting into the nonsense of individual religions.

    Maybe have a rudimentary psychology class and tell the youngins why some adults still believe fairy tales.


  • #75
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Itzy wrote: »
    Religion could be taught as part of a C.S.P.E curriculum, but should be taken out of schools. If Religious people of all denominations get into a huff, they can be gently reminded that they have a time and place for that, and to leave Schools for Education.


    The problem there though for non-religious people is that they are in a minority, something which some of them need a gentle reminder about when they get into a huff and expect to be accommodated.

    If you approach the issue aggressively, you're more likely to turn people off the idea of secular education than actually get them on your side. You're only thinking about what you want, and you don't seem to have given any thought to what religious people want. What are you prepared to give up, in order to get what you want?

    I don't know if you've noticed, but "because it's the right thing to do for the benefit of society", doesn't really wash with religious people who have their own ideas about "the right thing to do for the benefit of society", and their ideas don't usually involve giving up their majority position easily without them getting something in return first.


  • #76
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    The problem there though for non-religious people is that they are in a minority, something which some of them need a gentle reminder about when they get into a huff and expect to be accommodated.
    I don't think that's really a valid argument. "You're a minority, so don't forget that when you try to look for accomodation. You should treat the majoity nicely if you want to get what you want."


  • #77
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    osarusan wrote: »
    I don't think that's really a valid argument. "You're a minority, so don't forget that when you try to look for accomodation. You should treat the majoity nicely if you want to get what you want."

    I think that's an unfair twist. Non-religious people here are looking for religion to be removed in the form of a blanket ban. There are a small number of schools out there for those who wish to have a non-religious based education, which makes up a very small number of the general population, as per their declaration of religious status in the census.

    I would like to see a question on the census asking whether or not you would like to have a religious based education for your children, as that would give us a far clearer indication on the matter but as we don't have the data, we have to take the questions on religion that are present as a barometer.


  • #78
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Berserker wrote: »
    I think that's an unfair twist.

    It isn't any kind of twist. It's what his point was.
    Berserker wrote: »
    Non-religious people here are looking for religion to be removed in the form of a blanket ban.

    I've seen plenty of posts on here from people who are happy to see religion classes as long as they cover aspects of different religion, and favour none. You can't just pretend those posts aren't there.
    Berserker wrote: »
    There are a small number of schools out there for those who wish to have a non-religious based education.

    I am interested that you see the education children receive in a standard NS as a 'religious-based education.'
    Berserker wrote: »
    which makes up a very small number of the general population, as per their declaration of religious status in the census.

    I would like to see a question on the census asking whether or not you would like to have a religious based education for your children, as that would give us a far clearer indication on the matter but as we don't have the data, we have to take the questions on religion that are present as a barometer.

    I don't think we 'have to' use those figures as a barometer at all.


  • #79
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    osarusan wrote: »
    I've seen plenty of posts on here from people who are happy to see religion classes as long as they cover aspects of different religion, and favour none. You can't just pretend those posts aren't there.

    I am not. I am happy with that too, delighted in fact. It is the healthiest option of all. That is the norm for most people at second level. I am in my 30s and that was the format of my RE. My comments are aimed at people who are looking for a total ban.
    osarusan wrote: »
    I don't think we 'have to' use those figures as a barometer at all.

    So what would you like to use?


  • #80
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Berserker wrote: »
    Why do people continue to have church weddings etc, if they have such an issue with the church. It is particularly prevalent in the RCC. I don't buy the no other option nonsense. There are educate together school and private schools out there.

    Im a parent of school going kids. You may not buy the fact but it IS a fact


  • #81
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Berserker wrote: »
    I think that's an unfair twist. Non-religious catholicpeople here are looking for religion to be removed in the form of a blanket ban. There are a small number of schools out there for those who wish to have a non-religious based education, which makes up a very small number of the general population, as per their declaration of religious status in the census.

    I would like to see a question on the census asking whether or not you would like to have a religious based education for your children, as that would give us a far clearer indication on the matter but as we don't have the data, we have to take the questions on religion that are present as a barometer.

    Fixed that for you. There an many Catholic parents who would have and do send their children to a school like ET given the choice.

    The EU say the government isn't doing enough to provide non Catholic schools.


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  • #82
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    The problem there though for non-religious people is that they are in a minority, something which some of them need a gentle reminder about when they get into a huff and expect to be accommodated

    In a country that is supposed to be secular why should the tax I pay go toward indoctrinating children?

    But not just that either, if I were to have my own children my tax would go towards indoctrinating my own children against my will unless I was lucky enough to secure one of few spaces in an ET school.

    I don't have any problem with people practicing their religion. i do have a problem funding it, and I do have a problem with it being stuffed down mine and any potential kids I have in the future's throats.

    Being in the minority on the subject is irrelevant when the state is supposed to be secular in the first place.

    Why would it be such an issue to leave it out of schools and have parents teach it at home or at mass on the weekends or whatever? That literally accommodates everybody. It's not teaching kids there is no god, it's not teaching them any particular religion is correct. The current system isolates and excludes a lot of children unnecessarily.


  • #83
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Berserker wrote: »
    I am not. I am happy with that too, delighted in fact. It is the healthiest option of all. That is the norm for most people at second level. I am in my 30s and that was the format of my RE. My comments are aimed at people who are looking for a total ban.
    That's fine. It seemed from your earlier post that you were saying that all non-religious people wanted a blanket ban.
    Berserker wrote: »
    So what would you like to use?
    I wouldn't like to use anything. I'd like the curriculum to include only the kind of religion classes we agree upon above.


  • #84
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    We used to do a rosary every day in May in our school.


  • #85
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    other religions in other countries obviously teach their religion. does anyone know how they handle it?
    is it coming to where state schools can't teach the major religion of the country and so individual schools catering to each religion must be built?


  • #86
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,098 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    other religions in other countries obviously teach their religion. does anyone know how they handle it?
    is it coming to where state schools can't teach the major religion of the country and so individual schools catering to each religion must be built?
    No schools should indoctrinate children into any religious faith.

    Children are at school to be educated, not indoctrinated. If parents want to pass on their own faith to their children, that should be done outside of the education system.

    Ban billionaires



  • #87
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    other religions in other countries obviously teach their religion. does anyone know how they handle it?
    is it coming to where state schools can't teach the major religion of the country and so individual schools catering to each religion must be built?

    In Finland they have a similar attitude towards religion as the Irish (replace Lutheran with Catholicism) and they just split up for a religion class or ethics if they do not have a religion.


  • #88
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    The problem there though for non-religious people is that they are in a minority, something which some of them need a gentle reminder about when they get into a huff and expect to be accommodated.
    I think you'll find when it comes down to it most modern people have more faith in science than they do in god. When we get sick we may say a prayer but we know it's the hospitals and doctors that will heal us.

    Most catholics don't follow the rules of their church so aren't really catholic, most say they still believe in god but they don't really know what that god is. I'm sure if you put an ultimatum in front of people they'd admit they only have real faith in science. When things went wrong in the past people prayed to god because they'd nothing else they could do, they looked for any little positive in negative events and attributed it gods mercy. These days we can usually expect that science will come through for us, it will heal us, entertain us, educate us and in general improve our lives. All the things god promised, science delivers.

    So there isn't really a majority of religious people, they like the comfort blanket but when it really comes down to it they have faith in science and are probably more atheist than they'd like to admit.


  • #89
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • #90
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Being from Tallaght I find this disappointing...

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/primary-school-opens-in-dublin-with-just-one-pupil-284812.html


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  • #91
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    The problem there though for non-religious people is that they are in a minority, something which some of them need a gentle reminder about when they get into a huff and expect to be accommodated.

    Of course, because minorities have to beg for the majority to stop trampling them, is that it?

    This sort of softly bigoted gombeenism can fuck off and die.


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