Beef in Crisis

Willfarman · 02-09-2014 04:07PM

They'd be worth punt at that. I avg 110 for a bundle this spring.

whelan2 · 02-09-2014 04:17PM

Willfarman wrote: »

They'd be worth punt at that. I avg 120 for a bundle this spring.

He said 6 month old fr bulls where making 100-150 in mart last week

epfff · 02-09-2014 04:31PM

whelan2 wrote: »

He said 6 month old fr bulls where making 100-150 in mart last week

Id gamble them
Have put together a few fr yearling bulls @little with a€1/kg they avg 500 kgs now into shed at weekend I happy eneough
Biggest prob is getting nos together around my area and they fight like hell buying them in small nos

Willfarman · 02-09-2014 04:41PM

whelan2 wrote: »

He said 6 month old fr bulls where making 100-150 in mart last week

Ah mine are fairly good now in fairness they'd be close to 300 kgs at this stage. I seen cretins of yokes selling for that too but ya wouldn't take a present of them. They'd be yokes that were bringing 30 to 60 in March.

Milked out · 02-09-2014 04:47PM

I wonder sometimes with regars to the dairy calf and those that buy them, obviously don't no lads beef systems but the most I got for fr and wh bull calves 4 to 6 weeks old this year was n June with the may born fr making 160 to 180 and wh bulls at 350 in late may when Jan born fr bulls made 90 to 100 and the few aa and bb off ai in Jan made 180 to 260. The late calf seems to sell well but ultimately will cost the buyer more than the early calf in terms of taking advantage of grass I reckon.
Possibly the autumn born calf may be better as say born in Oct weaned in Dec and would be fit to go to grass in Jan if weather and/ or a suitable paddock available and they really make use of the first summer at grass then

Willfarman · 02-09-2014 05:12PM

It's my first endeavour into buying calves. I went with both feet. And bought 50
75 up to 180 for few dec ones. they were costing but that's what they avg after giving a dealer a turn. And commission. Mostly February born. I am going for bull beef under 16 monthe so the having them fleshed from a young age is crucial.

epfff · 02-09-2014 05:35PM

Willfarman wrote: »

It's my first endeavour into buying calves. I went with both feet. And bought 50
75 up to 180 for few dec ones. they were costing but that's what they avg after giving a dealer a turn. And commission. Mostly February born. I am going for bull beef under 16 monthe so the having them fleshed from a young age is crucial.

From my limited experience fr under 16 months is no major advantage over 24 months but the market may change

Willfarman · 02-09-2014 05:39PM

epfff wrote: »

From my limited experience fr under 16 months is no major advantage over 24 months but the market may change

I done a few this time last year and it did make a big difference. Hopefully agin these lads come round it will again!

ellewood · 02-09-2014 07:00PM

Willfarman wrote: »

I done a few this time last year and it did make a big difference. Hopefully agin these lads come round it will again!

Fortune favours the brave...

Cavanjack · 02-09-2014 08:55PM

epfff wrote: »

Id gamble them
Have put together a few fr yearling bulls @little with a€1/kg they avg 500 kgs now into shed at weekend I happy eneough
Biggest prob is getting nos together around my area and they fight like hell buying them in small nos

That's a fair weight for Friesian yearlings is it not?

Farmer Pudsey · 02-09-2014 09:17PM

epfff wrote: »

Id gamble them
Have put together a few fr yearling bulls @little with a€1/kg they avg 500 kgs now into shed at weekend I happy eneough
Biggest prob is getting nos together around my area and they fight like hell buying them in small nos

Biggest issue with them is softening them, did them for a good few years and used to feed them outside( bought them as weanlings) from late july 2kg/day and build it up to 5 kgs in the two weeks before housing in early October. Yours have good weight and if you get diet right they will kill over 300kgs.

Assuming that they cost 350 to finish. I presume that they cost about 550 on average and allowing another 60 euro for miscellanous( dosing, veteninary transport and sale they be costing 960 at slaughter.

You will need 3.05/kg to break even and you will need 3.7/kg for a 200 euro margin. Seems a good gamble but you will need them gone end of January. Biggest issue will be fat score, very hard to soften fresians and a lot will depend on how well they soften

Last thing is if you have not done them before it will not pay to adlib it costs more to feed that what they put up on weight. You need if I remember right about 5c/week rise in prices to pay for feed over weight gain when they are at any sort of killing condition

epfff · 02-09-2014 10:10PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Biggest issue with them is softening them, did them for a good few years and used to feed them outside( bought them as weanlings) from late july 2kg/day and build it up to 5 kgs in the two weeks before housing in early October. Yours have good weight and if you get diet right they will kill over 300kgs.

Assuming that they cost 350 to finish. I presume that they cost about 550 on average and allowing another 60 euro for miscellanous( dosing, veteninary transport and sale they be costing 960 at slaughter.

You will need 3.05/kg to break even and you will need 3.7/kg for a 200 euro margin. Seems a good gamble but you will need them gone end of January. Biggest issue will be fat score, very hard to soften fresians and a lot will depend on how well they soften

Last thing is if you have not done them before it will not pay to adlib it costs more to feed that what they put up on weight. You need if I remember right about 5c/week rise in prices to pay for feed over weight gain when they are at any sort of killing condition

Buying them since june
They costing less than 500 after costs(mart haulige fluke worm)
Getting my best grass only (as streched with feeders etc on other cattle)
Intend to adlib for 100 ish days with straw
Some will go at 80 day more 120
their is always 2/3 that wont flesh they have to be sliped off with first bunch as pits only throwning good money after bad(take my balliking and promis not to do it again)

You not far off with350 cost maybe be a little less this year if I can squeeze meal man
Good meal is more important than cheep meal

Ps was hoping they would have desert sun on their back now but it didnt come off

Farmer Pudsey · 02-09-2014 10:27PM

epfff wrote: »

Buying them since june
They costing less than 500 after costs(mart haulige fluke worm)
Getting my best grass only (as streched with feeders etc on other cattle)
Intend to adlib for 100 ish days with straw
Some will go at 80 day more 120
their is always 2/3 that wont flesh they have to be sliped off with first bunch as pits only throwning good money after bad(take my balliking and promis not to do it again)

You not far off with350 cost maybe be a little less this year if I can squeeze meal man
Good meal is more important than cheep meal

Ps was hoping they would have desert sun on their back now but it didnt come off

Would be slow to ad-lib them if you had good silage and start them at 6-7 kgs and build up to 11kgs. No stomach issue, they will thrive away and target for week before Christmas to 3rd-4th week in January. Barley maize and soya mix with a touch of wheat will bomb them along

epfff · 02-09-2014 10:33PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Would be slow to ad-lib them if you had good silage and start them at 6-7 kgs and build up to 11kgs. No stomach issue, they will thrive away and target for week before Christmas to 3rd-4th week in January. Barley maize and soya mix with a touch of wheat will bomb them along

At it a few yrs now find that adlib good meal (35maize30barley10soya)the only able to eat 11kgs or so but had them eating 15 kgs of other stuff one year
Yeast and straw after that no silage
Getting better results and fat scores than local expert's

epfff · 02-09-2014 10:40PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Would be slow to ad-lib them if you had good silage and start them at 6-7 kgs and build up to 11kgs. No stomach issue, they will thrive away and target for week before Christmas to 3rd-4th week in January. Barley maize and soya mix with a touch of wheat will bomb them along

Silage not cheep
Best ground tied up contractor fert etc
I am believer eat grass where it is
Make very little of it
Plus well set up for adlib quick feeding a few times a week

Willfarman · 02-09-2014 10:41PM

epfff wrote: »

At it a few yrs now find that adlib good meal (35maize30barley10soya)the only able to eat 11kgs or so but had them eating 15 kgs of other stuff one year
Yeast and straw after that no silage
Getting better results and fat scores than local expert's

That's my mix too. Use acid Guard product and don't spare it with old meadow hay. Bulls done a bomb last year A couple got r-. Nothing Less than o=.

sandydan · 02-09-2014 10:41PM

epfff wrote: »

At it a few yrs now find that adlib good meal (35maize30barley10soya)the only able to eat 11kgs or so but had them eating 15 kgs of other stuff one year
Yeast and straw after that no silage
Getting better results and fat scores than local expert's

what is your yeast source if that's not a stupid question thanks

Farmer Pudsey · 02-09-2014 10:46PM

epfff wrote: »

At it a few yrs now find that adlib good meal (35maize30barley10soya)the only able to eat 11kgs or so but had them eating 15 kgs of other stuff one year
Yeast and straw after that no silage
Getting better results and fat scores than local expert's

High maize can really slow down stomach, a little wheat 6-8% acts like a bit of petrol in diesel it helps drive it through stomach. I always figure it costs more to feed Freisians than they put on in flesh and generally find that late Dec/early Janruary is best price period. However there may be demand for them from christmass on.

Some rations with poor quality feeds are useless and some so called bull rations are worse. Too many farmers feeding good quality bulls depend on there skill around ring rather than there ability to feed correctly.

epfff · 02-09-2014 10:47PM

sandydan wrote: »

what is your yeast source if that's not a stupid question thanks

Err
I use term yeast loosely
I actually think its something simular bicarbonate or something
buy it off rep that I know from different life
Will have to get back to you on that 1

Farmer Pudsey · 02-09-2014 10:49PM

epfff wrote: »

Err
I use term yeast loosely
I actually think its something simular bicarbonate or something
buy it off rep that I know from different life
Will have to get back to you on that 1

I have used them had one last year and it was very good with high levels of ration will try to find it name. Nothing was coming out in the dung was a really good consistancy when taht is right you know they are thriving

epfff · 02-09-2014 11:00PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

High maize can really slow down stomach, a little wheat 6-8% acts like a bit of petrol in diesel it helps drive it through stomach. I always figure it costs more to feed Freisians than they put on in flesh and generally find that late Dec/early Janruary is best price period. However there may be demand for them from christmass on.

Some rations with poor quality feeds are useless and some so called bull rations are worse. Too many farmers feeding good quality bulls depend on there skill around ring rather than there ability to feed correctly.

Be careful on moisture levels on ration
I believe it makes a difference
Ground maize can differ I think also molasses is great at a price
2%is loads reps always want more especially if they not blowing it cheep weight

sandydan · 02-09-2014 11:04PM

epfff wrote: »

Be careful on moisture levels on ration
I believe it makes a difference
Ground maize can differ I think also molasses is great at a price
2%is loads reps always want more especially if they not blowing it cheep weight

thought excess molasses led to cubing breading down,so i was told by fella on cuber, maybe he was bul;lsstinling, when i reared on him after farmers blowing fuse on me over crumbly nuts.

Base price · 03-09-2014 12:15AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

High maize can really slow down stomach, a little wheat 6-8% acts like a bit of petrol in diesel it helps drive it through stomach. I always figure it costs more to feed Freisians than they put on in flesh and generally find that late Dec/early Janruary is best price period. However there may be demand for them from christmass on.

Some rations with poor quality feeds are useless and some so called bull rations are worse. Too many farmers feeding good quality bulls depend on there skill around ring rather than there ability to feed correctly.

Like you posted in a previous post you have been down this road before. I have too and until the fcuk up with factory prices last Oct/Nov/Dec then I would not have even commented on this thread. In fact this thread would never exist.
Due to my non farming work commitments I am only getting the opportunity to update myself on this thread - needs must when the divil drives!
Unfortunately, it appears to me that the way forward is to produce or rear an intensively meal fed dairy type calf - Rose type beef to suit the (mostly) UK market :mad:
This form of beef production goes completely against what I understand a beef animal should be, i.e. reared off grass. However I appreciate that time moves on.
Bord Bia (along with McD's, Aldi, Lidl, etc) have been promoting grass fed Irish bred, reared and produced beef and I assume have been doing well from such advertising campaigns and good luck to them.

Why should we blow that niche market away because some UK supermarket chain want to make an even bigger profit on our backs and also on the backs of the immigrant cheap labour who make up a high percentage of lads and lassies in most boning halls throughout the country.
Also PLEASE bear in mind that we, Ireland, are the second biggest indirect NET contributors to the EU (after Germany), which seems to be lost when it comes to the negotiation table.
Seems to me that the farming organisations, who receive our membership fees and EIF levies are running with the hare and chasing with the hound.
Brian, in my opinion is correct and fair play to him for voicing his opinion

How can our main farming Union (IFA) justifying chasing with the hounds and running with the hare, and also get funding to boot :mad:
Its a load of bo11ix. Every farmer, be you a beef, pork, lamb, veg producer funds 35% of the IFA. If you are a IFA member (like we are) then expediently that figure increases.

So where do we Irish farmers go from here ?

In my opinion it is one of the best threads that I have read on F&F since I joined.

rangler1 · 03-09-2014 08:56AM

[[/U]

Base price wrote: »

Like you posted in a previous post you have been down this road before. I have too and until the fcuk up with factory prices last Oct/Nov/Dec then I would not have even commented on this thread. In fact this thread would never exist.
Due to my non farming work commitments I am only getting the opportunity to update myself on this thread - needs must when the divil drives!
Unfortunately, it appears to me that the way forward is to produce or rear an intensively meal fed dairy type calf - Rose type beef to suit the (mostly) UK market :mad:
This form of beef production goes completely against what I understand a beef animal should be, i.e. reared off grass. However I appreciate that time moves on.
Bord Bia (along with McD's, Aldi, Lidl, etc) have been promoting grass fed Irish bred, reared and produced beef and I assume have been doing well from such advertising campaigns and good luck to them.

Why should we blow that niche market away because some UK supermarket chain want to make an even bigger profit on our backs and also on the backs of the immigrant cheap labour who make up a high percentage of lads and lassies in most boning halls throughout the country.
Also PLEASE bear in mind that we, Ireland, are the second biggest indirect NET contributors to the EU (after Germany), which seems to be lost when it comes to the negotiation table.
Seems to me that the farming organisations, who receive our membership fees and EIF levies are running with the hare and chasing with the hound.
Brian, in my opinion is correct and fair play to him for voicing his opinion
How can our main farming Union (IFA) justifying chasing with the hounds and running with the hare, and also get funding to boot :mad:
Its a load of bo11ix. Every farmer, be you a beef, pork, lamb, veg producer funds 35% of the IFA. If you are a IFA member (like we are) then expediently that figure increases.

So where do we Irish farmers go from here ?

In my opinion it is one of the best threads that I have read on F&F since I joined.

When we are attacking the factories on every front, how do you justify that statement.........to me that statement is a load of bollix,
You sitting with your feet up last Thursday, while we were out in the rain in Ballinasloe trying to make it awkward for the factory customers, then you have the gall to say we're running with the hounds

We've met coveney numerous times asking him to get the factories to toe the line, We've met Kenny, bruton, NFU,UFU...... and a good few badly attended protests ......this problem isn't going to solved until the glut is subsided, only a fool would think you'd get a good price in a glut (We'll all happily screw the grain farmers this year because of an oversupply, yet you expect livestock farmers to be immune from the same situation)
I don't have to be in IFA, no more than any of the rest of the officers, I have an interest in issues outside the farm gate.....don't even have to farm now, but if I do chose to farm, I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE IT'S WORTH MY WHILE.
If I thought anything more could be done, I'd be pushing for it, because this will affect the sheep trade

Willfarman · 03-09-2014 09:00AM

epfff wrote: »

Buying them since june
They costing less than 500 after costs(mart haulige fluke worm)
Getting my best grass only (as streched with feeders etc on other cattle)
Intend to adlib for 100 ish days with straw
Some will go at 80 day more 120
their is always 2/3 that wont flesh they have to be sliped off with first bunch as pits only throwning good money after bad(take my balliking and promis not to do it again)

You not far off with350 cost maybe be a little less this year if I can squeeze meal man
Good meal is more important than cheep meal

Ps was hoping they would have desert sun on their back now but it didnt come off

You are averaging around €850 at slaughter and didn't have to mix a bag of milk! I won't be far off the 1000. I am going to squeeze the lighter lads I think to hedge my bets a bit.

frazzledhome · 03-09-2014 09:06AM

http://twitter.com/TheLadBible/status/506903519841243136/photo/1

sandydan · 03-09-2014 09:42AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have used them had one last year and it was very good with high levels of ration will try to find it name. Nothing was coming out in the dung was a really good consistancy when taht is right you know they are thriving

often wondered how to sort that one of grains in dung, thought if grains are passing through so has value of contents. i take it its bread soda you are referring to in 25kg bags as source of protein, i use that too to correct acididty in silage.
would need dump to correct problem of mould in last years bales though with mould triangle in some bales ,gave contractor bollicking over it.speed baling to catch all, and drawing with pipe bale handlers as fast as tractor could drive distance of half mile, instead of trailers.drew them myself this time bales lot heavier too imo,better packed.

Farmer Pudsey · 03-09-2014 10:13AM

sandydan wrote: »

often wondered how to sort that one of grains in dung, thought if grains are passing through so has value of contents. i take it its bread soda you are referring to in 25kg bags as source of protein, i use that too to correct acididty in silage.
would need dump to correct problem of mould in last years bales though with mould triangle in some bales ,gave contractor bollicking over it.speed baling to catch all, and drawing with pipe bale handlers as fast as tractor could drive distance of half mile, instead of trailers.drew them myself this time bales lot heavier too imo,better packed.

epff was talking about bread soda. I use cubicle lime(not burnt lime) as a buffer and I also use a yeast this stuff was quite good but have not got the name at hand at present.

Greengrass1 · 03-09-2014 11:02AM

Threw an eye ovef this thread here and just said id stick an answer on a few points.
The msin reason alot of lads went extreme HO was because of the old RBI system in 2000 where yhr milkier a cow was tge better now its changd to ebi where majority of the emphasis is on fertility amd solids.
And thats where the jex comes in. There a hardy cow do what therr supposed to do.
Progressive genetics had a photo up there earlier in the week of a suckler cow who had a LM bull that waa 45kgs at birth. With s 287 gestation.
I would have no problem using him if his gestation was 10 days less
We have bred alot of HO into the herd here the last 10yrs and I think I will be going bavk crossbreeding.
There just a cow type I like and do the business

I said · 03-09-2014 12:18PM

Meat processors have said they are willing to explore flexibility around carcase weights, after meeting with the Minster for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Simon Coveney, last night.

Meat Industry Ireland (MII), the representative body for beef and lamb processors has said that the recent reduction in beef prices is a reflection of a very significant recession-driven drop in EU beef consumption (700,000 tonnes) since 2010 compounded by an increase in EU beef output in 2014.

According to a spokesperson for MII said that in the interests of moving to a more constructive engagement with producers, the organisation is willing to explore flexibility with regard to carcase weights, notwithstanding a clear and well publicised market trend towards a preference for lower weights.

It also confirmed that it would issue its response to the Dowling report shortly.

Minister Coveney said after the meeting that he had urged processors to consider the need to restore confidence among producers in order to protect the long-term viability of the industry, which makes a vital contribution to the rural, national and export economy.

“I called on processors to show further flexibility on weight specifications and I am pleased to say that they have now indicated that they are open to that. While matters such as price and commercial specifications are ultimately issues for the operators in the marketplace, there is a clear need at this stage for some confidence building measures for beef farmers. Some additional assurance on the weight specifications issue would certainly be a useful contribution to that objective.”

The Minister also referred to the Dowling Report, which he had commissioned following the Beef Forum in April 2014. The report had made a number of recommendations, including in relation to improved price transparency and better communications with farmers, the increased use of supply contracts to provide greater stability for producers, and the development of price comparators that would allow for a more accurate system for benchmarking Irish prices against those in other countries.

“I have been advised that processors are close to finalising a comprehensive response to the Dowling Report. I have asked that they complete their work as quickly as possible and that they address all of the issues raised. I await its publication and hope that it can make a meaningful contribution to improving the critically important relationship with suppliers and to the sustainable development of the sector in the future.”

He also repeated his call for positive engagement between processors and farm bodies in the interests of addressing the short term market issues affecting the sector and restoring the kind of confidence among farmers that will be necessary if supplies of beef are to be sustained into the future.
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Beef in Crisis

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