Defence Forces troops to be deployed to UNDOF

sparky42 · 28-08-2014 04:58PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Still a worrying development regardless. Hopefully they'll be released unharmed.

Agreed, though I'm not exactly thrilled if they end up being ransomed, those groups don't need anymore bankrolling.

BlaasForRafa · 29-08-2014 05:17AM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Still a worrying development regardless. Hopefully they'll be released unharmed.

They are Fijian. Apparently Filipino troops were ordered to surrender as well but they refused. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184516

sparky42 · 29-08-2014 06:58PM

Why do I get the feeling Coveney is going to pull the troops out?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/coveney-we-cannot-have-irish-soldiers-dragged-into-civil-war-in-syria-640585.html

Wicklowrider · 29-08-2014 07:59PM

sparky42 wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling Coveney is going to pull the troops out?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/coveney-we-cannot-have-irish-soldiers-dragged-into-civil-war-in-syria-640585.html

Get them home or get them reinforcements, armour, air cover and artillery.
I mean this towards the UN rather than at the pdf and the other units involved.

Its a crap deal for a company strength unit to just stand there waiting for this stuff to happen. I'm too long a civvy to just accept this is part of the job. If they engage they should have what they need to do the job.

Cork boy 55 · 29-08-2014 08:26PM

It was observer mission from ~1967-2011

then SHTF in Syria

A few countries pulled out

UN upgraded UNDOF but not enough

now this sitrep

---

The Resources to upgrade properly( full force protection) in a civil war context don't justify the continuation of mission i.e. those Resources could be better spent else where in world therefore mission should be downgraded to Israelis side or frozen

Reggie. · 29-08-2014 09:46PM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Get them home or get them reinforcements, armour, air cover and artillery.
I mean this towards the UN rather than at the pdf and the other units involved.

Its a crap deal for a company strength unit to just stand there waiting for this stuff to happen. I'm too long a civvy to just accept this is part of the job. If they engage they should have what they need to do the job.

Agreed

BlaasForRafa · 30-08-2014 10:35PM

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The Resources to upgrade properly( full force protection) in a civil war context don't justify the continuation of mission i.e. those Resources could be better spent else where in world therefore mission should be downgraded to Israelis side or frozen

Indeed, let the Israelis take care of the border, they're more than capable. The UNDOF detachments are in an unenviable position of practically being sitting ducks for various rebel factions.

Five Lamps · 31-08-2014 09:46PM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Get them home or get them reinforcements, armour, air cover and artillery.
I mean this towards the UN rather than at the pdf and the other units involved.

From where? There's been very few UN missions anywhere that have had that level of support.

In any case, it seems that an AA gun on the back of a pick up truck seems to be trumping everybody elses equipment in the area so I'm not sure if being 'tooled up' is a game changer.

sparky42 · 31-08-2014 10:33PM

Five Lamps wrote: »

From where? There's been very few UN missions anywhere that have had that level of support.

In any case, it seems that an AA gun on the back of a pick up truck seems to be trumping everybody elses equipment in the area so I'm not sure if being 'tooled up' is a game changer.

Maybe just change the rules of the mission to allow the UN troops to be more active in stopping the threats before they surround outposts?

Reggie. · 31-08-2014 10:35PM

sparky42 wrote: »

Maybe just change the rules of the mission to allow the UN troops to be more active in stopping the threats before they surround outposts?

Would the non article 7 missions not cover that.

Five Lamps · 31-08-2014 10:51PM

sparky42 wrote: »

Maybe just change the rules of the mission to allow the UN troops to be more active in stopping the threats before they surround outposts?

What are the rules of engagement in this area? Clearly the environment has changed and instead of dealing with the Syrian and Israeli armies on either side they are now dealing with an irregular force who have zero interest in any rules of engagement.

sparky42 · 01-09-2014 07:49PM

Well there are reports from the Filipino's that the Indian General commanding the mission ordered the Filipino outposts to surrender so as to not risk the captured Fijians, which the Filipino's ignored, so great command environment there I'd say.

gizmo555 · 01-09-2014 07:58PM

sparky42 wrote: »

Well there are reports from the Filipino's that the Indian General commanding the mission ordered the Filipino outposts to surrender so as to not risk the captured Fijians, which the Filipino's ignored, so great command environment there I'd say.

With the number of prisoners on all sides who have been shot out of hand - or worse - in the Syrian civil war, I can't say I'd blame the Filipinos for disregarding an order like that, if in fact it was given.

[It appears the Filipinos' refusal to surrender was approved by the head of their armed forces, General Catapang.]

sparky42 · 01-09-2014 11:17PM

gizmo555 wrote: »

With the number of prisoners on all sides who have been shot out of hand - or worse - in the Syrian civil war, I can't say I'd blame the Filipinos for disregarding an order like that, if in fact it was given.

[It appears the Filipinos' refusal to surrender was approved by the head of their armed forces, General Catapang.]

I'm not surprised, the Filipino's have plenty of experience fighting Islamic terror groups in their homeland, I'm betting they figured that surrendering wouldn't end well. I wasn't complain about them or their General, I was more commenting on the disjointed command authority in the mission.

Local-womanizer · 03-09-2014 11:44AM

The irish daily star has a video up from the minestrike on the irish patrol few months back for those interested

http://www.thestar.ie/star/video-irish-troops-ambushed-in-golan-heights-52276/

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-09-2014 12:56PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

The irish daily star has a video up from the minestrike on the irish patrol few months back for those interested

http://www.thestar.ie/star/video-irish-troops-ambushed-in-golan-heights-52276/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXqm2hAF7BU

Reggie. · 03-09-2014 01:19PM

That was being kept under wraps. Wonder who leaked it out

sparky42 · 03-09-2014 02:45PM

Reggie. wrote: »

That was being kept under wraps. Wonder who leaked it out

That and the list of actions that they have been involved in, I hadn't seen anything of that before now...?

Local-womanizer · 03-09-2014 04:59PM

sparky42 wrote: »

That and the list of actions that they have been involved in, I hadn't seen anything of that before now...?

It was reported on after it had happened. First time the video has been made public

Reggie. · 03-09-2014 07:19PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

It was reported on after it had happened. First time the video has been made public

There was a black out on the media so it would have been very little mentioned about it

sparky42 · 03-09-2014 07:40PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

It was reported on after it had happened. First time the video has been made public

I remember the online comments about the mine, I meant more the attacks on the troops and the base, I don't remember seeing much commenting on those? Maybe I just missed it.

Local-womanizer · 03-09-2014 08:41PM

Reggie. wrote: »

There was a black out on the media so it would have been very little mentioned about it

It was all over rte website and the journal when it happened. It got back to the media not long after it happened from someone in Syria.

sparky42 wrote: »

I remember the online comments about the mine, I meant more the attacks on the troops and the base, I don't remember seeing much commenting on those? Maybe I just missed it.

Ah yea, there hasn't been much about that but then again the media never are too inclined about any incident involving irish troops anywhere.

gizmo555 · 03-09-2014 09:24PM

A senior Irish Army officer will become the deputy force commander of the under pressure United Nations deployment in the Golan Heights, Syria.

Brig Gen Tony Hanlon, logistics director at Defence Forces Headquarters in Dublin, is preparing to take up his post during a tense period for the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) . . .

. . . Col Ezra James Enriquez, the Filipino chief of staff with UNDOF, has now left his post in Syria.

Reports from Manila suggest he has taken leave in protest at the UN’s Indian force commander Lt Gen Iqbal Singha’a order that two groups of Filipino troops who found themselves surrounded last Friday by hundreds of al Qaeda-linked rebels should surrender their posts.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/irish-officer-to-take-deputy-lead-of-un-golan-heights-mission-1.1916908

sparky42 · 03-09-2014 10:21PM

I love how this is being covered by crime reporters on RTE and the papers.

Manic Moran · 03-09-2014 10:45PM

Larry Drab Pear wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXqm2hAF7BU

Can't say I'm impressed. The "Low Ammo" sign isn't reassuring, and after the patrol takes contact, the gunner doesn't seem to bother spending much effort scanning for threats. Unless there's something I'm missing, that doesn't seem particularly competent.

sparky42 · 03-09-2014 10:49PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can't say I'm impressed. The "Low Ammo" sign isn't reassuring, and after the patrol takes contact, the gunner doesn't seem to bother spending much effort scanning for threats. Unless there's something I'm missing, that doesn't seem particularly competent.

About the low ammo, I can only hope that it was at the end of the contact and they'd been lashing out the rounds? Otherwise yeah, a good question about how much logistic support they have? Fair point as well about the focus, unless this vehicle was at the end of the patrol and they knew that they weren't in danger?

Local-womanizer · 03-09-2014 10:54PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can't say I'm impressed. The "Low Ammo" sign isn't reassuring, and after the patrol takes contact, the gunner doesn't seem to bother spending much effort scanning for threats. Unless there's something I'm missing, that doesn't seem particularly competent.

The story is that one vehicle put down suppressing fire in great volumes once the contact started (small arms fire) on an enemy position that they were taking fire from. Once the mowag struck the mine they started to recieve small arms fire and it and a mowag next to it returned fire while getting out of there.

One can assume that the low ammo was a result of the suppressive fire! They must have fired a serious amount of rounds all the same!

Reggie. · 03-09-2014 11:00PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

The story is that one vehicle put down suppressing fire in great volumes once the contact started (small arms fire) on an enemy position that they were taking fire from. Once the mowag struck the mine they started to recieve small arms fire and it and a mowag next to it returned fire while getting out of there.

One can assume that the low ammo was a result of the suppressive fire! They must have fired a serious amount of rounds all the same!

It wouldn't take long to empty the rounds anyways. A few minutes continuous fire and you will eat through it

Manic Moran · 04-09-2014 03:37AM

Can't say that helps. If the situation is dicey enough that it's not safe to put a new belt or two into the ammo bin, I'd be burning out the RWS's motors and the FLIR toggle switch looking for whatever deserves those last few rounds. Otherwise, reload! Either way, the gunner wasn't scanning, and the ammo was indicating low pretty much the full duration of that video.

Morpheus · 04-09-2014 09:21AM

He seemed to have tunnel vision on the junction alright. Im no MOWAG crewman but even as a gunner on the ground, you'd be scanning all over the crest of that road and ridgeline left and right looking from where the fire was coming from. Serious luck and I suppose decent design that the mowag survived and was able to move with seven wheels...

According to the news report, the vehicle commander was the injured party when he was ejected from the hatch he was standing in when the blast struck.... now explain to me what the commander would be doing in an open hatch or with an open hatch, when the convoy had already received and returned fire prior to the IED?

Defence Forces troops to be deployed to UNDOF

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