Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

awec wrote: »

Payne Olding combination will be interesting to watch. We'll see if Payne looks a better 13 with Olding than he does with Marshall.

Well it will be interesting to see how Payne does with a run of games at 13 which he will probably get now with Cave seemingly out for the first three or four games.

I'm just glad to see Olding back!

Potential Ireland Centre pairing at the WC there. Depending on how they go.

badknees wrote: »

Oh my Payne at 13 when Ludik can play there,no doubt there will be a gnashing of gums, the Payne and Anscombe 13 position was very much condemned by a lot on the east coast dominated uafc,apparently there seems to be not a whisper, especially now that it seems that Kiss is in charge. Of course the IRFU do not have any say in Ulsters selection policy.Blame Anscombe and move on.

I think its more that Darren Cave can do no wrong whatsoever in the eyes of some on UAFC and so when Payne has the temerity to play 13 he gets condemned. I'm actually a huge fan of Caves myself but the criticism Payne has got is completely OTT.

jacothelad wrote: »

How do you know that the UAFC is dominated by the 'East Coast'? There are no addresses available afaik. However since more than 50% of the rugby playing population of Ulster live within 30 miles of the Greater Belfast Catchment, it would be bizarre if most of the posters didn't come from the area in which rugby is most popular and where most of the people live. The problem with Payne isn't that he is a poor player. The problem is that at 15 he is actually a stellar player and has contributed massively to Ulster's attacking play and Cave at 13 has a hand in a huge number of Ulster's tries. When Payne has played at 13, we lose his f.b. play and defence and tactical kicking (which is superb) and we lose Cave's subtley and off loading and line breaks in attack. We also lose Cave's defence. Have a look at Madigan's try in the semi final. That wouldn't have happened with Marshall at 12 and Cave at 13, both players were in the playing squad. Payne hadn't a clue. While Madigan deserves credit, Payne isn't a patch on Cave as a defender at 13.


Payne is so good at 15 it's really that by comparison as a 13 he wouldn't normally get a start there. Cave 13 and Payne 15 is exponentially greater than Payne 13 and Ricki Andrew at 15. Which would you pick if it was your call?

Cave at 13 and Payne at 15. But that's not my point. There are some on UAFC who want Payne out of Ulster. Some who wouldn't even have him in their 23 and to me that is utterly ridiculous.

Hagz wrote: »

Olding had to leave the field with an injury :(:(:(:(:(:(

He walked off though so hopefully its just precautionary.

If theres one player id love to see get an injury free season its him

I think it was a knock to the head. Tbh he had a rough ol' game. Seemed to do a lot of soaking tackles which he ended up getting awkward knocks from. He tried to stop Macken on one run and Macken bounced off him, dislocating his little finger.

mfceiling wrote: »

Olding seems to have beefed up something serious. Didn't really get much opportunity to shine yesterday but he showed great strength in the tackle and he counter rucked like a 7 at times.

Positives for me was -

Payne, looked very sharp and had a few good line breaks.

Paul M was lively and had a few breaks also - had his usual couple of brain farts too.

Scrum was strong - more than held our own against Healy and Ross.

Don't know if it was a positive or not but it was good to meet a few of the boys on here and put faces to names. Funny how different they look compared to what your mind has conjured up..........except Awec - looks like a Harp drinker!!

Cheers for that. So it seems Herbst had another decent outing. Promising start for him, he really could be the key to our season, that and keeping Ruan and Paddy fit...no pressure then Wiebhan...

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Wouldn't judge on yesterday I'd say leinsters scrum woes started more in the second row and between the props. Just my opinion. Hard to tell when at the game.

Yeah but went well last week too apparently. Sure pre season doesn't mean a lot other than building fitness levels and getting rid of rust.

“Always the bridesmaid and never the bride”; a phrase which aptly sums up Ulster Rugby over the last few years.

Certainly on paper and in the flesh they usually look good. They always turn up on the day, their physical pack stands up to the best teams in the world, they play some exciting football but their role on any given day is one that, quite frankly, could easily be filled in by any other team on their big day. Mind you, bridesmaid is something of a promotion; they were little more than the flower girl until recently!

Considering the long term loss of Stephen Ferris, Ulster had a reasonably strong showing last season with their relatively modest squad. Irish squad call ups didn't affect them that badly and as a result it allowed them to maintain squad consistency a little better. A undefeated Heineken Cup group phase and a very close defeat in the last 8 to Saracens was an undoubted highlight as was a double League against Munster. However some poor Pro 12 performances saw them eventually finish in 4th place before eventually losing 13-9 to Leinster in a dour semi final.

Squad wise, they have managed to bring in some efficient new players though they are merely replacing key players who have retired or left the province. Rory Best is captain for the season, Ian Humphries returns home from L-Irish while Louis Ludik will provide Jared Payne with experienced cover at Full Back. No less than 3 new props arrive in (Dave Ryan and Wiehahn Herbst being two) to cover Tom Court and John Afoa but all eyes will be on Ruaidhrí Murphy who has two seasons with the Brumbies behind him and a lot of promise ahead of him. Veteran Afrikaaner Franco van der Merwe, Lansdowne’s Charlie Butterworth and Kiwi Sean Reidy come in to cover the second/back rows while Trimble, Bowe, Cave, Gilroy and Marshall remain committed for this season at least.

On the down side, quite a lot of heavy hitters have departed, notably in the front row. Props Tom Court and John Afoa are off to England while young talents Paddy McAllister, Niall Annett, Adam Macklin have left for foreign shores. Behind the front row, Ferris has gone for good while Johann Muller and Paddy Jackson have retired as well; powerful if injury prone flanker Sean Doyle is returning to the Brumbies.
As regards the pick of the younger talent, look for impressive games from 3/4’s Stuart Olding and Rory Scholes; prop Ricky Lutton is a late comer to the professional game and who should get more game time this year while Ballymena scrum half David Shanahan is expected to come good as well provided he is given some decent game time.


More than anything though, the loss of Mark Ainscombe and David Humphries has affected their ability to chase players though interim coach Les Kiss has done his best for the province. Player numbers are essential to get through the the harsh and talent shy Pro 14 games in November and February or when injuries mount up; this has been an issue in previous years. While their reliance on imported players allows them to be available to them with less fear of call ups, the question remains if the depth and talent is there to get them through the season in comfort. 
 Certainly it's not there in the Raven's, not in the same way that it is with Leinster or Munster.
In Europe, Ulster have been dealt a very poor hand in Leicester, Toulon and Llanelli. Toulon, who won the H cup in 2013 and 2014 and defending Top 14 champions will be geared up to win the inaugural ER Champions Cup and are undoubtedly favourites to win the Cup. Money is no object for them when it come to player recruitment and James O’Connor and Leigh Halpenny will more than make up for retiring Johnny Wilkinson.

Even Leicester have a lot of fiscal clout and although they are not the formidable team of old, they are still masters of pack retention and victory grinding and are better bets on paper. Llanelli, while dangerous on the right day, are another victim of the imminent implosion of Welsh rugby and a shadow of their former selves. They are beatable with ease but besides that it's slim pickings this season. 


Overall, I can’t see Ulster doing a lot better than they did last season. They haven’t gone far enough in attracting in new talent, the lack of a long term coaching team has to be be a massive blow for the province while their academy players, while good, aren’t coming through in numbers enough to make a big difference. The defence will be tightened up under Kiss and it will make them harder to beat on the day, provided that the back line hold their own over the 80.

While they have moved forward over the last few seasons and punched above their weight, there is only so far that Ulster can go before their fans will demand trophies, which they just cannot do just now. They have a rebuilt and renamed Ravenhill/Kingspan Park to play in this year; the question is if the Ulstermen can stand up this time round?

My prediction is for a another semi final loss in the Pro 12, a near scalp of Leinster and two wins to the Scarlets in Europe.



Key players; Tuohy, Pienaar, Gilroy, Diack, Murphy, Nick Williams.

Paddy Jackson has retired...