dog barking,separation anxiety

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 3:43pm #1

Anybody have any experience using the shock collars to stop barking/crying.

My 6month terrier x suddenly started barking like crazy when she is left alone,

We have tried everything long walks before leaving,toys stuffed with food and frozen ,chew bones,she is fully crate and house trained,
this only started this week,after we returned from holiday so now she has separation anxiety and the we have already received a complaint letter from the management company,{we have pain in the ass neighbours with too much time on there hands}
she never ever barks when we are there only when she is left alone,tried everything now what to know if anyone has used the shock collar to stop the barking,,

we feel bad having to use one but we can't afford doggy day care everyday and have no one else to mind her,

if anyone has any info please share

Irishcrx · 25-08-2014 3:46pm

I'd take this out of after hours and into the pet forum for starters , you won't get a serious answer in here.

IMO shock collar not the way to go, don't believe in them. In fact it will only make her worst and she will associate the pain of the collar with you leaving the house.

I'd suggest a 2nd dog for company when you are no there , that way they alwasy have each other and she won't be alone, is that an option?

bottlebrush · 25-08-2014 3:46pm

Leaving the radio on while I was out at work did the trick with my maltese

everlast75 · 25-08-2014 3:48pm

There are other ways to train your dog not to bark.

Rewarding positive works - it takes time though. Shock collars may work too but IMHO it's cruel.

Seek out a recommended dog trainer and work through him/her OP.

Good luck

kylith · 25-08-2014 3:55pm

Ask on Pet Issues for recommendations of a trainer/behaviourist. Shock collars are cruel, and getting a second dog can often mean you wind up with two dogs with SA.

MistyCheese · 25-08-2014 3:55pm

I'd second getting a second dog if that's an option.

When circumstances caused me to have to suddenly leave my dogs on their own for hours at a time I was damn glad they were a pair of dogs to keep each other company. And my two hate each other.

Fr_Dougal · 25-08-2014 3:55pm

kylith wrote: »

Ask on Pet Issues for recommendations of a trainer/behaviourist. Shock collars are cruel, and getting a second dog can often mean you wind up with two dogs with SA.

Better get another two dogs so.

wazky · 25-08-2014 3:57pm

It's just a yappy bastard dog.

Your dog is either a yappy bastard or not, you got unlucky by the sounds of it and got a yappy bastard.

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 4:00pm

two dogs is not an option small apartment,,
tried leaving on the radio,tv,covered her crate wit a duvet,even recorded myself telling her to be quiet,
doesn't seem to work she is completely trained as she cried when she was a puppy and we training her out of it but this time she is not stopping at all,

Squaredude · 25-08-2014 4:00pm

I use a vibration collar on my German Shepherd and works extremely well. Instead of a shock collar maybe try a spray collar or an ultra sonic collar.

danniemcq · 25-08-2014 4:01pm

MOD

Moved from AH

Roquentin · 25-08-2014 4:01pm

my dog was like that at night so we had to let him sleep in the living room where we all watched tv and sat down in the evening. For some reason he doesnt mind that.

We had originally put him in another room but he wouldnt stop barking and got anxious. By putting him in the main room where we sat and watched tv with the kitchen door open as well, he seemed to sleep peacefully poor guy.

On another note, it shows that he really likes you. But some dogs are people dogs and thats the case with him. If hes left on his own for a minute he gets anxious

kylith · 25-08-2014 4:05pm

Where was she while ye were on holiday? Is she crated the whole time ye're in work?

mphalo1 · 25-08-2014 4:42pm

I've used a shock collar on my doberman we had to put him outside once my twin boys were born , he start barking at basically at every little noise or anything that moves and joining in with other dogs barking in the distance and howling when I went anywhere, the shock collar doesnt work it just made him more mad ! and more into it.although when the gaurds and warden called they were delighted to see I had one as it showed I was trying and sure what more could I do other than everything you already said ( walk , chew bone etc . in the end the dog gets used to it and settles down Ina few weeks he's grand now hardly a peep PS you could set up CCTV because a dog has to bark more than 20 mins straight for it to be illegal if he stops the clock resets.. one thing you could try is leave the house for 5 mins and come back and Increase the time away gradually over a few days or whatever it takes , best of luck now

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 4:47pm

I'm in an apartment renting so I could be kicked out if she doesn't stop, i tried even went 20mins she kept on barking,,,

mphalo1 · 25-08-2014 5:04pm

right time to toughen up then ,put a tight muzzle on it till it learns only taking it off to eat and drink for a week , also try calm aid tablets for a while for when your going away for a while ,the vet will have them, if you want to keep the dog and your home then " just do it" both will buy you time to teach the dog

tk123 · 25-08-2014 5:14pm

mphalo1 wrote: »

right time to toughen up then ,put a tight muzzle on it till it learns only taking it off to eat and drink for a week

THIS type of "advice" is exactly why you should contact a qualified behaviourist. I'd recommend Emmaline from http://citizencanineireland.com/. I'd also recommend that you record the dog to see what's happening - use you phone/ipad/laptop/camera whatever to see what happens when you leave. You can even set up a dummy skype account say on a laptop and call it from your phone.

Has the dog been vet checked - you have a sudden behavioural change here so it might be an idea to rule out any medical conditions instead of punishing the dog with shock collars/muzzles.

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 5:19pm

she is in her crate so there is nothing to see she just barks/crys it has started because we where away for a week and she stayed in my parents house and since then she has separation anxiety,

i have really tried everything thats why I am asking about the collar as it is a last resort,

muddypaws · 25-08-2014 5:25pm

You say you can't afford day care every day, but there is one in Dublin I know that won't take dogs every day of the week, as its too much for a dog, so could you even afford 2 days a week? It may wear her out enough, that she is settled on the other 3 days.

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 5:28pm

the main problem is i can't leave the house for 2mins as my lovely neighbours will report the dog straight away and the management company will ask for her to go.

so 2 days away won't help thanks anyway

mphalo1 · 25-08-2014 5:29pm

dont follow my advice then and say goodbye to your dog or your home

Tranceypoo · 25-08-2014 5:30pm

mphalo1 wrote: »

right time to toughen up then ,put a tight muzzle on it till it learns only taking it off to eat and drink for a week , also try calm aid tablets for a while for when your going away for a while ,the vet will have them, if you want to keep the dog and your home then " just do it" both will buy you time to teach the dog

Jesus Christ, PLEASE don't follow this advice, from the person who 'put their dog out' as soon as their babies were born and then wondered why it started barking all the time.....:mad:

mphalo1 · 25-08-2014 5:33pm

Tranceypoo wrote:

Jesus Christ, PLEASE don't follow this advice, from the person who 'put their dog out' as soon as their babies were born and then wondered why it started barking all the time.....ï¿¼

and what's wrong with that ?

DBB · 25-08-2014 5:51pm

Op, your dog has what sounds on the face of it like separation anxiety. It may not be, but let's for now assume that it is.
The emphasis is on the word anxiety.
A great way to increase anxiety is to introduce punishment, fear, coercion, and discomfort into the mix.
Shock collars, spray collars, tight muzzles etc are a great way to introduce these things to the mix.
To address anxiety, you must, simply must address the underlying emotional problem. All of the above suggestions not only compromise welfare, they only (often poorly) address the symptoms of the problem. By doing so, you're on a hiding to nothing, and you're going to end up with a very unhappy dog.
Separation anxiety is almost always quite complex, and needs a well thought-out, ethical, and holistic approach to sort it out. What you're mostly getting here is bits and pieces of advice, some very good, but not enough on their own. You're also getting some dreadful advice. As already pointed out, this is why you'd be well advised to get a really good behaviourist in to help you design a plan of attack that you can stick to. But I will warn you, many cases of separation anxiety (if that's what this is... It is one of the most misdiagnosed problems thanks to misinformation on the internet... Another reason to get it officially diagnosed by someone who's qualified to diagnose), there needs to be a slow, systematic build-up to leaving the dog alone. That's going to mean getting outside care for at least a few weeks or months, because working homes just can't devote time to this gradual build-up, which is an unavoidable part of proper, ethical treatment.
Presumably when your folks were minding her, she had someone with her for a lot of the time? And now suddenly, that's gone and she's alone for a good chunk of the day? If this is an accurate account of what happened during your holiday time, then it's a likely cause for why this problem seems to have appeared so suddenly.
How long are you leaving her crated for? Is she locked in the crate the whole time you're at work?

denismc · 25-08-2014 5:52pm

We had a real problem with our dog when we got her first to the point where she ripped up the house every time we left but she is pretty much fine now.
I read an interesting book by Jan Fennell "The Dog Listener"
There was a lot of repetition in her book but the main point she made is:
Dogs have separation issues because they think they are looking after you i.e they are the pack leader and have a **** attack every time you leave the house, a bit like a mother seeing their toddler walk out the door. What you have to do is stop treating your dog like its the boss which you unconsciously do every time you come home and make a big fuss about them.
When you leave the house don't make a big fuss about the dog, also you when you come home don't make a big fuss about them, just ignore them for a few minutes.
Also don't leave treats around when you leave, their feeding routine needs to be strictly once or twice a day.
You need to let your dog know you are the pack leader not the other way round. Fennell explains it well in her book.
The other thing we did is found someone to take our dog out for a walk if we are both away all day, just make sure you get someone trustworthy.

kylith · 25-08-2014 5:58pm

deadwood85 wrote: »

she is in her crate so there is nothing to see she just barks/crys it has started because we where away for a week and she stayed in my parents house and since then she has separation anxiety,

i have really tried everything thats why I am asking about the collar as it is a last resort,

If she's crated and can't see out I would suspect that she got used to not being crated while in your parent's house and is now frustrated and bored. Have you tried not putting her in the crate so that she can wander around, look out the window, and so on.

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 6:01pm

DBB wrote: »

Op, your dog has what sounds on the face of it like separation anxiety. It may not be, but let's for now assume that it is.
The emphasis is on the word anxiety.
A great way to increase anxiety is to introduce punishment, fear, coercion, and discomfort into the mix.
Shock collars, spray collars, tight muzzles etc are a great way to introduce these things to the mix.
To address anxiety, you must, simply must address the underlying emotional problem. All of the above suggestions not only compromise welfare, they only (often poorly) address the symptoms of the problem. By doing so, you're on a hiding to nothing, and you're going to end up with a very unhappy dog.
Separation anxiety is almost always quite complex, and needs a well thought-out, ethical, and holistic approach to sort it out. What you're mostly getting here is bits and pieces of advice, some very good, but not enough on their own. You're also getting some dreadful advice. As already pointed out, this is why you'd be well advised to get a really good behaviourist in to help you design a plan of attack that you can stick to. But I will warn you, many cases of separation anxiety (if that's what this is... It is one of the most misdiagnosed problems thanks to misinformation on the internet... Another reason to get it officially diagnosed by someone who's qualified to diagnose), there needs to be a slow, systematic build-up to leaving the dog alone. That's going to mean getting outside care for at least a few weeks or months, because working homes just can't devote time to this gradual build-up, which is an unavoidable part of proper, ethical treatment.
Presumably when your folks were minding her, she had someone with her for a lot of the time? And now suddenly, that's gone and she's alone for a good chunk of the day? If this is an accurate account of what happened during your holiday time, then it's a likely cause for why this problem seems to have appeared so suddenly.
How long are you leaving her crated for? Is she locked in the crate the whole time you're at work?

i don't have weeks or months to re-train her,as we will be asked to leave the apartment,,

she always had someone in my parents house and if not there was another dog there so she was never alone,she is never crated for more than 5 hours,

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 6:02pm

kylith wrote: »

If she's crated and can't see out I would suspect that she got used to not being crated while in your parent's house and is now frustrated and bored. Have you tried not putting her in the crate so that she can wander around, look out the window, and so on.

yes same problem i really have tried everything

deadwood85 · 25-08-2014 6:03pm

denismc wrote: »

We had a real problem with our dog when we got her first to the point where she ripped up the house every time we left but she is pretty much fine now.
I read an interesting book by Jan Fennell "The Dog Listener"
There was a lot of repetition in her book but the main point she made is:
Dogs have separation issues because they think they are looking after you i.e they are the pack leader and have a **** attack every time you leave the house, a bit like a mother seeing their toddler walk out the door. What you have to do is stop treating your dog like its the boss which you unconsciously do every time you come home and make a big fuss about them.
When you leave the house don't make a big fuss about the dog, also you when you come home don't make a big fuss about them, just ignore them for a few minutes.
Also don't leave treats around when you leave, their feeding routine needs to be strictly once or twice a day.
You need to let your dog know you are the pack leader not the other way round. Fennell explains it well in her book.
The other thing we did is found someone to take our dog out for a walk if we are both away all day, just make sure you get someone trustworthy.

I've watched enough ceaser milan she is not the pack leader at all

DBB · 25-08-2014 6:05pm

denismc wrote: »

You need to let your dog know you are the pack leader not the other way round. Fennell explains it well in her book.

Fennell's one-size-fits-all explanations all seem so elegant, until one appreciates that her entire basis for dogs having behavioural problems due to some perceived misalignment of their dominance hierarchy has been utterly disproven... Fennell seems a nice lady, and unlike Cesar Milan, her fellow pack leader advocate, she never recommends using physical means to correct unwanted behaviour. But unfortunately, in light of all the research, her books need to be filed away, alongside homoeopathy, and Cesar Milan's books, in the Dog Training Spam folder!

DBB · 25-08-2014 6:13pm

deadwood85 wrote: »

i don't have weeks or months to re-train her,as we will be asked to leave the apartment,,

she always had someone in my parents house and if not there was another dog there so she was never alone,she is never crated for more than 5 hours,

Jayney op... 5 hours is a lot to ask for a dog to remain in the confines of a crate. Seriously, that's not good. Her anxiety may be worse because she has negative associations with being in the crate for too long... If she's bursting for a pee, if she has a dodgy tummy, what's she meant to do?
A playpen would be a first, vital step... She needs to be able to move about freely while you're gone.
If, despite getting help in real life from a properly qualified behaviourist (ie one who does not follow either Jan Fennell or Cesar Milan's misguided theories, but uses evidence-led techniques), you cannot resolve this problem because of time constraints, then you need to take a long look at what's best for your little dog in the long run.
But that's a last step. Please, for your wee dog, get some outside help in. And get a playpen, leaving her crated for as long as you are is not an option, and with all due respect is abuse of the crate and how they're meant to be used properly and ethically.

dog barking,separation anxiety

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