Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

old_aussie · 22-08-2014 11:10AM

Now the militants in Gaza turn on the people.

This will endure themselves to the general public.

Just being suspected is enough for hamas to kill them.

The old kill one terrify a thousand!

"Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip publicly executed 11 men suspected of collaborating with Israel, a Hamas-affiliated radio station reported Friday.

The reported killings were in apparent retribution for an Israeli airstrike that killed three top Hamas military commanders on Thursday. To target the Hamas men, Israel would almost certainly have needed human intelligence provided by spies, analysts said.

Gaza's Voice of Al-Aqsa radio reported that the men had been executed in an open area, and that there were plans to execute more alleged collaborators later Friday."

R P McMurphy · 22-08-2014 11:38AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

What if, as i do, you sympathise with Abbas who had been doing so well to get as close to peace as we have ever seen in the middle east, only for hamas and likud to realise it is in neither of their interests for this to happen and then allowing themselves be drawn into a pointless war. Does that make me pro-palestinian, anti-israeli or a supporter of terror?

As it happens, i dislike intensley the idea that you pick a side and support it, as though Israel and Palestine were Utd and City. Both sides have done right and wrong in different measures, the most important thing is peace, which is why the leaked papers, if accurate, are most disheartening. Still, i think the next step is for the nations of the world to recognise the palestinian authority as a soverign state and to be allowed participate as a full UN member state.

Are hamas extreme islamists? I was under the impression that they werent - isis, for example, considers them apostates because they are more concerned with nationalism than with islam. Would be interested to read more about their religious position if you have any links.

Just out of interest: what are these rights that the Israeli state have undertaken in the last ten years?

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 11:58AM

Social Media: The weapon of choice in the Gaza-Israel Conflict

Palestinians using platforms like Facebook and Twitter counter the mainstream narrative of the Gaza Crisis, reaching an astonishing number of people around the world

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/social-media-weapon-choice-gaza-israel-conflict-1807202428

"Israel is ranked 96th in the world on the “Press Freedom Index” - a report compiled by Reporters without Borders - because of the Israeli military's targeting of Palestinian journalists in the occupied Palestinian territory. This ranking was published before the start of Israel’s 3rd war on Gaza, called “Operation Protective Edge.”

"As the war progressed, it was an online battle of narratives - between heavily funded Israeli state media outlets, represented by Israeli spokespersons of the Israeli government and the army with decades of experience - versus Palestinian citizen journalists who only had their own laptops, smartphones and cameras."

“The rise of the internet has helped to reconstruct the fragmentation of Palestine, as it is a way for Palestinians to reconnect and break their isolation. I think the effect of the social media boom among young Palestinian social media activists somehow succeeded in changing public perception of the Palestinian in the West,” said Majed Shuplaq, a Palestinian journalist."

"Social media has definitely weakened the Israeli narrative, as Palestinians are able to connect directly with overseas audiences and tell the stories that they feel are important.":):)

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 12:08PM

An astonishing piece by Henry Siegman, at the Norwegian Peacebuilding Resource Center, goes further than this Jewish leader, who escaped the Holocaust himself, has gone before. Siegman categorically defends the right of resistance for a subject people exposed to the violence of occupiers in occupied lands and says Palestinians may exercise the same right of resistance exercised by Jewish people in the 1940s.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/supporting-incineration-resonates.html

Given his background, what American Jewish leader Henry Siegman has to say about Israel's founding in 1948 through the current assault on Gaza may surprise you. From 1978 to 1994, Siegman served as executive director of the American Jewish Congress, long described as one of the nation's “big three” Jewish organizations, along with the American Jewish Committee and the Anti-Defamation League. Born in Germany three years before the Nazis came to power in 1933, Siegman's family eventually moved to the United States. His father was a leader of the European Zionist movement that pushed for the creation of a Jewish state. In New York, Siegman studied the religion and was ordained as an Orthodox Rabbi by Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, later becoming head of the Synagogue Council of America. After his time at the American Jewish Congress, Siegman became a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He now serves as president of the U.S./Middle East Project. In the first of our two-part interview, Siegman discusses the assault on Gaza; the myths surrounding Israel's founding in 1948; and his own background as a German-Jewish refugee who fled Nazi occupation to later become a leading American Jewish voice; and now vocal critic of Israel's policies in the Occupied Territories.

"When one thinks that this is what is necessary for Israel to survive, that the Zionist dream is based on the repeated slaughter of innocents on a scale that we're watching these days on television, that is really a profound, profound crisis -- and should be a profound crisis in the thinking of all of us who were committed to the establishment of the state and to its success," Siegman says. Responding to Israel's U.S.-backed claim that its assault on Gaza is necessary because no country would tolerate the rocket fire from militants in Gaza, Siegman says: "What undermines this principle, is that no country and no people would live the way that Gazans have been made to live … The question of the morality of Israel's action depends, in the first instance on the question, couldn't Israel be doing something [to prevent] this disaster that is playing out now, in terms of the destruction of human life? Couldn't they have done something that did not require that cost? And the answer is, sure, they could have ended the occupation."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY98tJUdiIc

http://www.peacebuilding.no/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/83e50a3009bb8371196a20be882e6757.pdf

czx · 22-08-2014 12:16PM

About 80 times more people have died in Syria in the last few years. More than than the I/P conflict in total. And it's happening just next door

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 12:18PM

czx wrote: »

About 80 times more people have died in Syria in the last few years. More than than the I/P conflict in total. And it's happening just next door

And your point being?

czx · 22-08-2014 12:23PM

bumper234 wrote: »

And your point being?

More Syria angst. More perspective. More genuine concern for death toll as it's what matters the most.

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 12:24PM

czx wrote: »

More Syria angst. More perspective. More genuine concern for death toll as it's what matters the most.

So you want to discuss the Syria situation in a Palestine/Israel thread? Or should it be discussed in the Syria thread?

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 12:29PM

Refusal to serve in the IDF community

https://www.facebook.com/refusalIDF?fref=photo!

"Stop persecutions of Israeli conscientious objectors.Seventh prison term for conscientious objector Uriel Ferera, was sentenced to 30 days in military prison no. 6
Uriel Ferer a, 19 years old from Be’er Sheva, reported to Tel
Hashomer military induction base, accompanied by a demonstration of support for his refusal to serve in the military. Uriel declared his refusal to serve for reasons of conscience due to his opposition to the occupation of the Palestinian people and discrimination against Palestinians inside Israel. on 17/8/2014 Uriel was sentenced to 30 days in military prison no. 6 near Atlit.

czx · 22-08-2014 12:29PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So you want to discuss the Syria situation in a Palestine/Israel thread? Or should it be discussed in the Syria thread?

It's directly related. The majority of the posters here are incredibly concenred about civilian deaths in the middle east. A few miles north the same is happening on a much larger scale

RustyNut · 22-08-2014 12:33PM

czx wrote: »

It's directly related. The majority of the posters here are incredibly concenred about civilian deaths in the middle east. A few miles north the same is happening on a much larger scale

Why not start a thread on it?

TommyKnocker · 22-08-2014 12:33PM

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

Oh give up with those pictures will ya :rolleyes:. You make it look like Hamas are kids in the street going around throwing stones and as soon as a Guard gives them a kick up the ar5e they'll go crying to Mammy.

If the IRA, back twenty years ago, could destruct the whole of Manchester city centre with a bomb in a fúcking lorry, do you seriously buy that, twenty years on, Hamas are so ineffectual? Come on, please, either you're still in Junior Infants or you're being economical with the truth.

You have heard of the border checkpoints between Gaza and Israel I take it? You do understand that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the Hamas resistance fighters to drive a truck loaded with tonnes of explosives into Israel?

Which one of us is churning out the most childish rubbish?

I'll tell you what. You toddle off and find me photos from a reputable source that show the utter destruction caused to Israel by Hamas rockets. Find me reports of huge civilian casualties as a result of Hamas rocket attacks and post them up.

And just to note yet again, it case it slipped the last number of times, while I fully support Hamas's right to exist as a resistance movement against the zionist, terrorist, racist, apartheid state that is Israel and the murderous minions of the IDF, I CONDEM THE FIRING OF ROCKETS FROM GAZA INTO ISRAEL. INNOCENT CIVILIANS ON EITHER SIDE SHOULD NEVER BE CONSIDERED AS LEGITIMATE TARGETS!!!!!

czx · 22-08-2014 12:38PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Why not start a thread on it?

Why bother? Nobody really cares.
I think it is worthwhile to consider Syria on this thread though. To put the outrage in perspective

eeepaulo · 22-08-2014 12:39PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

You have heard of the border checkpoints between Gaza and Israel I take it? You do understand that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the Hamas resistance fighters to drive a truck loaded with tonnes of explosives into Israel?

Which one of us is churning out the most childish rubbish?

I'll tell you what. You toddle off and find me photos from a reputable source that show the utter destruction caused to Israel by Hamas rockets. Find me reports of huge civilian casualties as a result of Hamas rocket attacks and post them up.

And just to note yet again, it case it slipped the last number of times, while I fully support Hamas's right to exist as a resistance movement against the zionist, terrorist, racist, apartheid state that is Israel and the murderous minions of the IDF, I CONDEM THE FIRING OF ROCKETS FROM GAZA INTO ISRAEL. INNOCENT CIVILIANS ON EITHER SIDE SHOULD NEVER BE CONSIDERED AS LEGITIMATE TARGETS!!!!!

Hey tommy, i reckon you are wasting your time arguing there,
Ignorant Etc. didnt read any of the posts when they were posting in the thread, i find it very very unlikely they are reading them now that they are banned

bumper234 · 22-08-2014 12:44PM

czx wrote: »

Why bother? Nobody really cares.
I think it is worthwhile to consider Syria on this thread though. To put the outrage in perspective

So you feel we should talk about Syria but you're not bothered about it enough to start a seperate discussion :rolleyes:

My name is URL · 22-08-2014 12:46PM

czx wrote: »

It's directly related. The majority of the posters here are incredibly concenred about civilian deaths in the middle east. A few miles north the same is happening on a much larger scale

And it's being condemned by all and sundry, not defended by nation states of the world or played down by people disingenuously comparing it to other atrocities.. like you are doing.

czx · 22-08-2014 12:47PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So you feel we should talk about Syria but you're not bothered about it enough to start a seperate discussion :rolleyes:

No, this is an I/P thread. I'm just saying that the motives of posters should be questioned closely.

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 12:48PM

czx wrote: »

Why bother? Nobody really cares.
I think it is worthwhile to consider Syria on this thread though. To put the outrage in perspective

Well you care so why not be a pioneer.

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 12:49PM

czx wrote: »

No, this is an I/P thread. I'm just saying that the motives of posters should be questioned closely.

By you,you mean?

czx · 22-08-2014 12:50PM

My name is URL wrote: »

And it's being condemned by all and sundry, not defended by nation states of the world or played down by people disingenuously comparing it to other atrocities.. like you are doing.

Not playing down anything.

I'm saying the motives of those concerned about this conflict should be questioned when there is something much larger going on very close by. The relative attention given to this area doesn't make sense.

czx · 22-08-2014 12:50PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

By you,you mean?

By everyone. Think about it. 80 times more people

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 12:52PM

czx wrote: »

By everyone. Think about it. 80 times more people

So are you questioning my motives for posting here? What are you accusing me of then?

humanji · 22-08-2014 12:53PM

Folks, there's a syria thread and there's an Israel - Palestine thread. Keep the relevant topics in each.

humanji · 22-08-2014 01:09PM

Apparently my last warning wasn't clear enough.

STOP THE PETTY BICKERING AND STICK TO THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

czx · 22-08-2014 01:12PM

humanji wrote: »

Apparently my last warning wasn't clear enough.

STOP THE PETTY BICKERING AND STICK TO THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

I'm questioning the attention given to the I/P conflict. Surely that's relevant and on topic

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 01:21PM

Actually given the angst of a recent poster about the unfair attention that the conflict, which is the subject of this thread,receives and previous posters who were also at pains to highlight the unfairness I have found this article which may be informing their opinion

http://markhumphrys.com/why.palestine.html

humanji · 22-08-2014 01:25PM

czx wrote: »

I'm questioning the attention given to the I/P conflict. Surely that's relevant and on topic

No, it's not. Move on.

RustyNut · 22-08-2014 01:40PM

Any protest planned for this weekend?

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 01:41PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Social Media: The weapon of choice in the Gaza-Israel Conflict

Palestinians using platforms like Facebook and Twitter counter the mainstream narrative of the Gaza Crisis, reaching an astonishing number of people around the world

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/social-media-weapon-choice-gaza-israel-conflict-1807202428

"Israel is ranked 96th in the world on the “Press Freedom Index” - a report compiled by Reporters without Borders - because of the Israeli military's targeting of Palestinian journalists in the occupied Palestinian territory. This ranking was published before the start of Israel’s 3rd war on Gaza, called “Operation Protective Edge.”

"As the war progressed, it was an online battle of narratives - between heavily funded Israeli state media outlets, represented by Israeli spokespersons of the Israeli government and the army with decades of experience - versus Palestinian citizen journalists who only had their own laptops, smartphones and cameras."

“The rise of the internet has helped to reconstruct the fragmentation of Palestine, as it is a way for Palestinians to reconnect and break their isolation. I think the effect of the social media boom among young Palestinian social media activists somehow succeeded in changing public perception of the Palestinian in the West,” said Majed Shuplaq, a Palestinian journalist."

"Social media has definitely weakened the Israeli narrative, as Palestinians are able to connect directly with overseas audiences and tell the stories that they feel are important.":):)

Anyone have any experience of how they feel Social Media has affected the perspective of the conflict?

Tuisceanch · 22-08-2014 01:44PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Any protest planned for this weekend?

Doesn't seem to be in Dublin.There's a boycott awareness stall in front of the GPO tomorrow and there's an exhibition of Palestinian artists tonight.

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August