Life after death?

hmmm · 14-08-2014 09:11AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Simply living and no aspiration to something better afterward won't bind society together or make people act good in my opinion.

Your comment about religious people having an aspiration reminded me of this recent quote from Iraq.

"This isn’t an equal fight between the Peshmerga (Kurdish regional forces) and the Islamic State (ISIS)...These people want to die and have lunch with the Prophet Muhammad. The Peshmerga want to live and go home to have dinner with their wives. "

El_Duderino 09 · 14-08-2014 09:32AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why isn't it ok then? Of course it's ok. Why wouldn't it be under your perspective? They have more than you so take it. You hate them so kill them. No one to judge.

If you can't figure that out even after having it explained to you, then I really hope you remain a god fearing theist.

Banjo String · 14-08-2014 09:39AM

House of Blaze wrote: »

You wouldn't need a higher authority to judge you for murdering someone though..

Just a large group of the victims friends armed with sharp objects.

Only God can judge me.

sbsquarepants · 14-08-2014 09:40AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What is your moral compass then? It's easy to be smart and just dismiss it but if you want to foist that view on the world then maybe you should also endeavor to explain what moral views people should hold to themselves and the rest of humanity. If you just wilt and die like a plant than why not simply turn on each other and kill each other? No consequence and sure it's darkness in the end.

A lot of clever people like to be clever and tell people there is nothing afterward without thinking what fills the void.

I would suggest that, if the only thing keeping you from going on a killing spree is the fear of punishment in the afterlife - then what you are is a fúcking dangerous nut job, not a moral person. Morality is doing what you believe is right, simply because you believe it is right - not because you're being strong armed into it by a superior being - that's cowardice, not morality.

sbsquarepants · 14-08-2014 09:41AM

Banjo String wrote: »

Only God can judge me.

Judy says different. I for one wouldn't argue with her:D

Banjo String · 14-08-2014 09:44AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Judy says different. I for one wouldn't argue with her:D

And the wife. Boss, pickles. Etc.

People with that tattoo (maybe stereotypical of me) are generally arses.

Nichololas · 14-08-2014 09:46AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I would suggest that, if the only thing keeping you from going on a killing spree is the fear of punishment in the afterlife - then what you are is a fúcking dangerous nut job, not a moral person. Morality is doing what you believe is right, simply because you believe it is right - not because you're being strong armed into it by a superior being - that's cowardice, not morality.

Given that apparently the only thing stopping the OP from killing, stealing and taking what he can like an animal in a field is his rather flimsy argument for morality from a higher power, can someone explain why ye're all trying to argue him out of this notion?

We'll be reading about this in the Hedald tomorrow, and you're all culpable.

BeerWolf · 14-08-2014 09:47AM

When you die, your memory's wiped clean and you repeat your life again. Sometimes the memory's not wiped out completely and that's why you sometimes experience déjà vu.

Horrid thought if you had an awful life :pac:

Seriously though, no one can really say - maybe when you die, that's it, end of! Maybe when you die you go to heaven, who's to know? Maybe we'll get reincarnated as something else ?

Personally I don't know, as would anyone. I got a consciousness... it's hard to imagine that having never existed before I was born, likewise it'd be hard to imagine that consciousness ceasing to exist when you die. Awful thought really, when you're dying... that inside voice screaming "I don't want to di--".

Akrasia · 14-08-2014 09:48AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It is true. You know it is true. Deal with it.

The 'fact' that violent crime is increasing isn't even a fact. Globally, violence is decreasing. Even in America, violent crime is decreasing as is religion. The 'fact' that violence increases as religion decreases is absolutely backwards. Look at all of the most violent places in the world. Are they atheists or religious?

Are the places where religion is becoming more dominant getting more peaceful, or more violent?

kylith · 14-08-2014 09:54AM

I don't believe in any kind of afterlife. In fact, I can't think of anything worse than 'heaven'.

Akrasia · 14-08-2014 09:56AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't drink. I will leave the liver disease to others.

On my way to work I saw Dublin City center as absolute chaos - fights, junkies, drunks - it does make me wonder where society is going. A health crisis for sure. It would not be the case 30 or 40 years a go.

Oh wait Ireland was more religious then so I can't say that or bring it up.

Did you stop to ask these people if they believe in an afterlife?

What basis do you have to assume that just because someone's addicted to drugs or homeless that he/she is an atheist? Statistically speaking, people from poor and under educated backgrounds, tend to believe more strongly in religion than those from better educated more affluent areas.

yes there · 14-08-2014 09:56AM

I am worried about kermits sanity, the poor fecker. Dont think god would let him in now, too mad in the head.

pickarooney · 14-08-2014 09:57AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sometimes obedience is needed.

Not really. However, if your religion encourages things which are immoral then disobedience is needed.

Anyway, you're obviously taking the piss so whatever.

the_monkey · 14-08-2014 09:59AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What is your moral compass then? It's easy to be smart and just dismiss it but if you want to foist that view on the world then maybe you should also endeavor to explain what moral views people should hold to themselves and the rest of humanity. If you just wilt and die like a plant than why not simply turn on each other and kill each other? No consequence and sure it's darkness in the end.

A lot of clever people like to be clever and tell people there is nothing afterward without thinking what fills the void.

Ah this classic, lack of belief in an afterlife/God/religion = no morals.

It says a lot about you if the only thing stopping you from doing the above is a fear of consequences in an afterlife.

Akrasia · 14-08-2014 10:03AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sometimes obedience is needed.

Obedience to who?

Some gods say all infidels should be murdered, some gods say women should be locked away in their homes and never seen in public without their husband, some gods say homosexual men should be stoned to death, some religions say women who are pregnant outside of marriage should be shunned and interned in workhouses and then have their children taken from them and sold. Some religions think children can be posessed by devils and must be exorcised in brutal rituals that last days and can often kill or permanently disable the children. Some religions say modern medicine is evil and blood transfusions must be refused even to dying children, some religions say newborn baby boys should have the tip of their penis cut and the blood sucked clean by an elderly bearded man often resulting in infected wounds and sometimes the death of the infant....

Which one of these religions should we be obedient to?

sbsquarepants · 14-08-2014 10:03AM

Banjo String wrote: »

And the wife. Boss, pickles. Etc.

People with that tattoo (maybe stereotypical of me) are generally arses.

I've noticed some correlation there myself.

Zubeneschamali · 14-08-2014 10:03AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What is your moral compass then?

My moral compass is not about getting a sweetie or a smack from Daddy (after I die).

Akrasia · 14-08-2014 10:13AM

Nichololas wrote: »

Given that apparently the only thing stopping the OP from killing, stealing and taking what he can like an animal in a field is his rather flimsy argument for morality from a higher power, can someone explain why ye're all trying to argue him out of this notion?

We'll be reading about this in the Hedald tomorrow, and you're all culpable.

This thread reminds me of the opening scenes from Taxi Driver

Talib Fiasco · 14-08-2014 10:30AM

I believe that there is something after this life... I'm not entirely religious but I do believe in God and I go to mass when I can but I think there has to be something more after this. Be it reincarnation (which you wouldn't know different anyway) or heaven or whatever.

I think it's sad to just think "oh that's it, in the hole I'll go, bye bye"....whether it's true or not. Pardon the pun but having a little faith in something else would put you and your close ones at ease when you do die.

Saipanne · 14-08-2014 10:32AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The fact is, whether atheists like it or not, the vast majority across the world take their code from a religion and act accordingly. I don't believe many of them would be satisfied by nothingness.

It's a point often ignored by those that preach atheism and such. I'm not religious, far from it, but I recognise this issue and the reality is that the theory of nothing after death does leave a void and something has to fill it. Simply living and no aspiration to something better afterward won't bind society together or make people act good in my opinion.

Look at the crime rate in Ireland now compared to 40 years a go for example. Some would say life was worse in Ireland then but others would say life was safer and better for it under a more catholic and religious country. I do agree more often than not.

Boring...

the_monkey · 14-08-2014 10:38AM

People say Atheists have nothing to live for - wrong - Atheists have everything to live for and NOTHING to DIE for ....

o1s1n · 14-08-2014 10:42AM

One massive down side to modern media and instant communication is the ability to be bombarded with every bit of news about every little bad thing that happens throughout the globe - and the perception this creates.

It's a great bit of confirmation bias for religious folks who like to think thinks are 'getting worse' and therefore must be 'closer to the end'.

nozzferrahhtoo · 14-08-2014 10:47AM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I think there has to be something more after this.

HAS to be is quite a strong phrase. Not just might be or could be but HAS to be? On what do you base this?

Be it reincarnation (which you wouldn't know different anyway) or heaven or whatever.

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I think it's sad to just think "oh that's it, in the hole I'll go, bye bye"....whether it's true or not.

You are on the verge of making the same error I just corrected in the OP which is that you are mediating what you believe to be true, on what pleases you the most.

There either is an after life..... or there is not. The reality of which it is is entirely independent on what you personally find "sad".

The idea of an eternal after life to me is horrific. I find the concept of one abhorrent. That in no way means there is not one.

Regardless of what either of us finds "sad" or "horrific" the reality remains unaffected. There either is an after life, or there is not. And currently, regardless of how sad it makes you, I am aware of not one SINGLE argument which suggests there is one.

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Pardon the pun but having a little faith in something else would put you and your close ones at ease when you do die.

Reality is enough to ease me. I am not sure what you are trying to ease therefore. I am already at ease. You offer a cure for a condition I do not have.

However the idea of an eternal life after this one does not put me at ease. It is a terrifying and abhorrent concept of which I am glad there is no substantiation.

Christopher Hitchens described the Christian concept of a heaven quite well. He said being told you were going to die is like being at a great party, tapped on the shoulder, told you have to leave soon, but that the party will go on without you.

And as sad as that makes one, it is nothing compared to getting the same tap on the shoulder, being told the party will go on forever..... you can NEVER leave it.... and whats more the host positively INSISTS that while you are there.... you have a good time.

the_monkey wrote: »

People say Atheists have nothing to live for - wrong - Atheists have everything to live for and NOTHING to DIE for ....

They have many things they can die for too though. They are just as capable of giving their life for a person, place or ideal as anyone else. What is more that sacrifice actually MEANS something in the atheistic worldview.

Compare it, for example, to the Jesus Myth. The man is said to have "sacrificed" himself for humanity. But he did no such thing. He Traded Up an insignificant short life of relatively mild torture and humiliation for an ETERNAL life of bliss and dominion. Where is the sacrifice there??? I think that an insult to people who really HAVE given their life for a cause.

The concept of such sacrifice simply means nothing in the face of the concept of an eternal life.

Akrasia · 14-08-2014 10:47AM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I believe that there is something after this life... I'm not entirely religious but I do believe in God and I go to mass when I can but I think there has to be something more after this. Be it reincarnation (which you wouldn't know different anyway) or heaven or whatever.

I think it's sad to just think "oh that's it, in the hole I'll go, bye bye"....whether it's true or not. Pardon the pun but having a little faith in something else would put you and your close ones at ease when you do die.

In one way, we are all re-incarnated because the elements that make up our body are recycled. Our genes are another incarnation of ourselves, and our genes will survive unless our extended family all die in some terrible accident

In terms of our consciousness surviving? My consciusness cannot survive even a bottle of Jameson, never mind a bottle of Strychnine

Our brains take years to first develop the capacity to be truly self aware, The structures of our brain are inescapably linked to our personality and memories and thoughts, and basically, every aspect of ourselves that we think of as truly 'me'

Last_Minute · 14-08-2014 11:00AM

I think in a few thousand/million years in humans are still around they will be able to find out if there really is life after death as civilization will be so advanced.

As for my view - logically for me i don't see it but at the same time it is comforting to imagine that when you die you still live on.

14-08-2014 11:04AM

Drakares wrote: »

Not really. I have met plenty of atheists who are complete tools and don't give a toss about the people around them. Same with religious folk.

Well I was very clearly talking about people who do give a toss about those around them - higher being or no higher being.

Reoil · 14-08-2014 11:09AM

Can't we just do what's best for this thread please?
Let's kill it and see if it comes back to tell us of it's experience.
If it doesn't re-open itself then there, we have our answer...

shruikan2553 · 14-08-2014 11:11AM

I'm not sure what the point of these thread is.
Which is better tea or coffee?
Gets a reply say tea
Why are tea drinkers always think they are right? People drink coffee for a reason rabble rabble.

If the afterlife is so great why don't more people kill themselves?

cocker5 · 14-08-2014 11:12AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Do you believe in life after death? Maybe not the traditional narratives of heaven etc but maybe something else?

As an aside you know the way a doctor will always say so and so died "peacefully"? Do you believe that is likely? Curious. Because I don't believe that myself but I suppose that is separate.

Discuss!:)

I doubt there is anything after we die... would like to think so but I doubt it TBH

I can say my mum passed away 2 years ago this September, and its was far from peaceful, she suffered a massive amount right up until her last breath.

My sister and I were with her when she passed (thankfully) and I can honestly say it will HAUNT me until the end of my days

While i am so gald we were there for her on the other hand I wish I had never witnessed what I did - if thats makes sense.

nozzferrahhtoo · 14-08-2014 11:13AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If the afterlife is so great why don't more people kill themselves?

I imagine that is why so many religions had to build in the "Suicide is a sin" caveat clause. Which the Muslims then built on by saying it is a sin.... unless you are doing our dirty work for us and killing our enemy in which case feel free to blow yourself up and take some of them out. We will not stop you. Actually we will throw in a few virgins (or white grapes depending on your interpretation of the translations) to sweeten the deal.

Though it does show a lack of imagination that they are given such a paltry number of virgins and all eternity to spend with them. They sure will not stay "virgin" for much of a % of infinite time. Though what the appeal of virginity is I have never understood.

To build on your question however, if the After Life is so great why do people who purport to believe in it mourn so heavily when a loved one dies? For people who purport to subscribe to the idea of an after life, they seem in many ways to ACT like people who do not believe it.

Life after death?

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