Jewish group asks France to rename 'Death to Jews' hamlet

DeadHand · 13-08-2014 03:11PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The part we're mainly aware of happened in France. France certainly did not win that war. They were a minor part of a vast Allied force that did win it.

Read a book, mate.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 03:14PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I've just told my Jewish mate there's a town in France called "Death to the Jews"

He said said "Fkn 'ell...that's gas".

:pac:

Yeah, I think that's pretty much what my Jewish friends in France would say too. Don't think they'd have a melt down.

blackwhite · 13-08-2014 03:16PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's pretty much what my Jewish friends in France would say too. Don't think they'd have a melt down.

You think they'd make a pretty poor holocaust joke?

I'm sure they would :rolleyes:

Tony EH · 13-08-2014 03:19PM

In fairness to my friend, I don't believe he was deliberately trying to make a "holocaust joke".

"That's gas" is quite common parlance in Ireland.

Reekwind · 13-08-2014 03:19PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Where would they see the name ? Would they be using Ye old Google.maps ?

For a start. It's also on the current version of Google maps.

But then you're just arguing that offensive placenames are fine so long as no one knows. It's a plea for ignorance.

FloatingVoter wrote:

France certainly did not win that war. They were a minor part of a vast Allied force that did win it.

There's no easy way to put this but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. France lost almost 1.5m men in that war - more than any other Allied nation, Russia excepted. She maintained the second largest Allied army (Russia, again) and bore the vast brunt of the fighting in the West for the first two years of the war. Which is not to mention industrial contributions and the prominence of her officer corps (eg Foch as supreme Allied commander).

To suggest that France did not 'win' WWI, or was just "a minor part" of those that did, is simply stupid.

pickarooney · 13-08-2014 03:20PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The part we're mainly aware of happened in France. France certainly did not win that war. They were a minor part of a vast Allied force that did win it.

Like a sub winning a world cup medal, yeah?

Surely, by your bizarre logic, capitulating to the nazis was a way to avoid total defeat which equates to a victory... somehow.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 03:21PM

Hadn't copped the joke

. Language dysfunction here for a sec.

They would probably say : Feckn he'll, that's mental.
Is what I meant.

blackwhite · 13-08-2014 03:24PM

Tony EH wrote: »

In fairness to my friend, I don't believe he was deliberately trying to make a "holocaust joke".

"That's gas" is quite common parlance in Ireland.

It's pretty obvious what you were trying to do with the post - the ":pac:" kind of gives it away.

Congrats on being man enough to stand over your actions though

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 03:25PM

Sorry to blow your history out of the water. The Naval blockade that imposed starvation on Germany and the entry of the US in 1917 ended a long and bloody stalemate. France did contribute nobly- I won't deny that.
They also contributed to the beginning as did every other major participant. And their insistence on harsh reparations at Versailles only helped Hitler with an excuse later. This comes from reading several books, "mate".

The name is still offensive. It happens to be in France and is no fault of the French people in general.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 03:28PM

Reekwind wrote: »

For a start. It's also on the current version of Google maps.

You'd want to know the name of the actual village and exact postal code though, or happen to land on the very spot.

Not a very high chance that would ever happen. As mentioned, I think the way it was spotted was via an auctioneer.

wendell borton · 13-08-2014 03:28PM

Sorry for the buzz kill, but Kill means church in irish place names.
While in dutch it means a body of water, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderkill_River.

Dyr · 13-08-2014 03:29PM

That's nothing, theres a fecking place called Auschwitz in Poland!

Tony EH · 13-08-2014 03:29PM

blackwhite wrote: »

It's pretty obvious what you were trying to do with the post - the ":pac:" kind of gives it away.

Congrats on being man enough to stand over your actions though

The :pac: is that we both laughed about it.

:rolleyes: <--- This is for your stupid post.

Little CuChulainn · 13-08-2014 03:30PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

Muff

/Thread

Up near Nobber isn't it?

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 03:31PM

wendell borton wrote: »

Sorry for the buzz kill, but Kill means church in irish place names.
While in dutch it means a body of water, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderkill_River.

Yup, it would be culturally acceptable to have a townland called Kilenglish anywhere in Ireland. It'd probably mean a man called English built a church there in the 8th century. Thats a long way from "Kill The Jews" whixch belongs on a pub toilet not a signpost.

Tony EH · 13-08-2014 03:32PM

Bambi wrote: »

That's nothing, theres a fecking place called Auschwitz in Poland!

No there isn't.

Maybe you're thinking of Oświęcim?

FloatingVoter · 13-08-2014 03:35PM

Tony EH wrote: »

No there isn't.

Maybe you're thinking of Oświęcim?

Not if the Germans had stayed around.

Snickers Man · 13-08-2014 03:36PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

Muff

Muff is a LOVELY place.

Warm. Friendly. Inviting. Can be a bit inaccessible sometimes but when you get there it's well worth the effort.

Lovely smell of the sea.

Well it is on Lough Foyle.

Philo Beddoe · 13-08-2014 03:45PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Sorry to blow your history out of the water. The Naval blockade that imposed starvation on Germany and the entry of the US in 1917 ended a long and bloody stalemate. France did contribute nobly- I won't deny that.
They also contributed to the beginning as did every other major participant. And their insistence on harsh reparations at Versailles only helped Hitler with an excuse later. This comes from reading several books, "mate".

The Naval blockade and the US entry into the war were among numerous factors which turned the war in the Allies favour, but probably the most significant turning point was the defeat of Ludendorff's spring 1918 offensives, credit for which goes mainly to the French and British, along with Ludendorff's own over-zealousness.

DeadHand · 13-08-2014 03:48PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Sorry to blow your history out of the water. The Naval blockade that imposed starvation on Germany and the entry of the US in 1917 ended a long and bloody stalemate. France did contribute nobly- I won't deny that.
They also contributed to the beginning as did every other major participant. And their insistence on harsh reparations at Versailles only helped Hitler with an excuse later. This comes from reading several books, "mate".

So, in the space of one thread you've gone from France being "a minor part of a massive allied force" to a "major participent" and "contributing nobly".

No need for the apology, the only history you're blowing out off the water is your own.

How effective would the Naval blockade or the American entry have been had Germany not been held on the Western Front since the start by predominately French forces?

Sunhill · 13-08-2014 03:56PM

Imagine that, during the Penal Laws, the Crown changed the name of some Irish town to 'Death to Catholics'. If that name hadn't been changed up to the present day, I think that it would be cherished as a reminder that the native Irish not alone defeated the worst attempts to wipe them out but subsequently flourished.
Has anybody asked any Jews, apart from the SWF, if they are reminded of their survival through a time of mortal danger.

Reekwind · 13-08-2014 04:04PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Sorry to blow your history out of the water. The Naval blockade that imposed starvation on Germany and the entry of the US in 1917 ended a long and bloody stalemate. France did contribute nobly- I won't deny that.
They also contributed to the beginning as did every other major participant. And their insistence on harsh reparations at Versailles only helped Hitler with an excuse later. This comes from reading several books, "mate".

You need to read some more books. Try starting with any of those that cover the previous three years of war. You know, the ones in which French opposition was pivotal in stopping the the Germans from winning long before the blockade or US entered the picture.

I don't know how you managed it but that ridiculious assertion about France somehow ended being the silliest assertion in the thread. That is, a thread in which people are defending the name 'Death to Jews'. Congrats.

crockholm · 13-08-2014 05:21PM

Sunhill wrote: »

Imagine that, during the Penal Laws, the Crown changed the name of some Irish town to 'Death to Catholics'. If that name hadn't been changed up to the present day, I think that it would be cherished as a reminder that the native Irish not alone defeated the worst attempts to wipe them out but subsequently flourished.
Has anybody asked any Jews, apart from the SWF, if they are reminded of their survival through a time of mortal danger.

Once there was a plaque outside the main gate on the entrance to Bandon, Co.Cork which among other things expressed that "No Papist may enter here"- it gave rise to the quip about Bandon as "Pigs & Protestants".

Now if that sign were recovered,I would have no qualms about it being reinstated into the remaining Town wall or to be placed openly on display.

History is what it is-good and bad,noble and wicked,the name of the hamlet reflected a Contemporary veiw.Lets not sanitize and whitewash history, failing that ask the owners what they want to do and let their decision be final.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 05:25PM

Reekwind wrote: »

. That is, a thread in which people are defending the name 'Death to Jews'. Congrats.

Strawman alert !

People are disagreeing that the name should be changed at the request of a far away organisation, and expressing views on the impact or lack thereof the place name of a hamlet might have on an international scale, since it has become an international news point.

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 05:27PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Strawman alert !

People are disagreeing that the name should be changed at the request of a far away organisation, and expressing views on the impact or lack thereof the place name of a hamlet might have on an international scale, since it has become an international news point.

And not rewriting history, interesting this organisation will run out "Never forget" when it suits them. History is good and bad. Is it not the rewriting part that gets us into trouble.

Reekwind · 13-08-2014 05:42PM

crockholm wrote: »

Now if that sign were recovered,I would have no qualms about it being reinstated into the remaining Town wall or to be placed openly on display.

And why is that? It's probably because you can legitimately consider such anti-Irish discrimination to be "history". It's in the past. It doesn't happen any more* and so we can laugh it off.

That is not the case with Jews. Antisemitism has not gone away. It is not a thing of the past. There are organisations active today that actively advocating 'killing the Jews'. Every year in France alone hundreds of antisemitic attacks or incidents are recorded. Only the other week, numerous newspapers recorded how antisemtism is on the rise across Europe. Which is to say nothing of the past century's atrocities.

So this is not history. Not to those Jews living in France. They have every right to be annoyed at seeing a place called 'Death to Jews'.

*Outside of some very limited geographic areas. I wonder how Catholics in the North would feel if there was a village in which that 'Papist' sign was predominately displayed? Do you think they would be be as relaxed about it as someone from Cork?

Mountainsandh wrote:

People are disagreeing that the name should be changed at the request of a far away organisation, and expressing views on the impact or lack thereof the place name of a hamlet might have on an international scale, since it has become an international news point.

Really? Still? In what world is it okay to call your town or village or house 'Death to [insert ethnic name here]' just because it's small and out of the way?

darkpagandeath · 13-08-2014 05:49PM

How do people get on day to day with their lives, Getting outraged over trivial things from another country ? I will wager the people screaming most are not Jewish, do not no any Jewish people and I'm going with Faux outrage (As usual). Will this make me loose sleep ? No. I would put more stock into this if it was an Actual Jewish group from France. A least it may actually affect them.

Mountainsandh · 13-08-2014 05:49PM

They are not calling it that way, it has been called that way some centuries ago.

Cienciano · 13-08-2014 06:06PM

Reekwind wrote: »

Really? Still? In what world is it okay to call your town or village or house 'Death to [insert ethnic name here]' just because it's small and out of the way?

In the world 1000 years ago when this place was named.

Reekwind · 13-08-2014 06:13PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How do people get on day to day with their lives, Getting outraged over trivial things from another country ? I will wager the people screaming most are not Jewish, do not no any Jewish people and I'm going with Faux outrage (As usual). Will this make me loose sleep ? No. I would put more stock into this if it was an Actual Jewish group from France. A least it may actually affect them.

Here we have the standard line. Outrage! Hysteria! PC brigade gone mad! Screaming.

And, again, additional nonsense. This attitude that an international Jewish organisation should keep its nose out of French business is absurd. It's baseless. Not only does it ignore the fact that the complaint almost certainly originated from within France (how else would it be noticed), it's a restriction that you wouldn't place on any other organisation. Should the SVP not operate in other countries? Is Greenpeace wrong to lobby governments across the globe?

Mountainsandh wrote:

They are not calling it that way, it has been called that way some centuries ago.

And? That automatically validates it, right? You can be as bigoted as you want once you have a historical legacy to lean on?

Besides, it's not as if placenames are never changed. Or are you still hung up about the Free State overturning centuries of 'history' in renaming Maryborough?

Cienciano wrote:

In the world 1000 years ago when this place was named.

And you still live there do you? Amazing you've managed to get an internet connection.

Generally the dismantling of medieval traditions (guilds, famine, knights stabbing peasants, holy war, etc) it's considered to be progress. We've done quite a lot of it over the past few centuries. No one here claims that we should obey a strict caste system and that all positions of power should belong to a landed military elite. Yet this placename is apparently beyond the pale and is the one medieval relic that shouldn't be touched, despite (again) calling for the death of Jews.

I really wonder about this attitude. Do people here refuse to throw away any old clothes because they've 'got history'? Do you still use the same decade old AOL email account because 'that was cool back then'? If not, at what point does this magic 'immune to change' dust come into play? A year? A decade? A century?

Jewish group asks France to rename 'Death to Jews' hamlet

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