Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

The IDF really are a brave bunch of lads -- NOT

So much for how the IDF do not target civilians :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

How are people still defending Israel at this stage? How! Im just going to presume they're all trolls with nothing better to do because the evidence to dispute their "Most moral army" slogan is overwhelming!!!

the_monkey wrote: »

Sam Harris sums it up for me really :

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel


Allthough I think Israel are a little extreme in this case .

It's funny though the Pro Palestine people - they won't condemn the actions of ISIS ...

What crap are you on about? ISIS now IS are an evil deluded bunch, akin to any crazy religious group. They've twisted the Koran to suit their deluded goal. I highly doubt any pro-Palestinian would support or defend IS.
"I think Israel are a little extreme in this case" ah yeah over 300 children murdered is only a little extreme there buddy. Get a grip.

the_monkey wrote: »

Sam Harris sums it up for me really :

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel


Allthough I think Israel are a little extreme in this case .

It's funny though the Pro Palestine people - they won't condemn the actions of ISIS ...

I am sure the right minded people on this thread who support the innocent, unarmed, non combatant Palestinian civilians who are being slaughtered by Israel/IDF would also condemn ISIS. This thread however is about the Israel - Palestine conflict, which is why you don't see a lot of ISIS condemnation, as ISIS has played no part so far in the Israel - Palestinian conflict.

the_monkey wrote: »

It's funny though the Pro Palestine people - they won't condemn the actions of ISIS ...

I see quite a few people making every excuse under the sun for the IDF slaughter including the one your using now. It amazing that so many people will use the slaughter carried out by ISIS, to defend the one carried out by the IDF.

the_monkey wrote: »

Sam Harris sums it up for me really :

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel


Allthough I think Israel are a little extreme in this case .

It's funny though the Pro Palestine people - they won't condemn the actions of ISIS ...

Pathetic article from Sam Harris which show an obvious lack of understanding on the conflict.

Sam Harris wrote:

What would the Jews do to the Palestinians if they could do anything they wanted? Well, we know the answer to that question, because they can do more or less anything they want. The Israeli army could kill everyone in Gaza tomorrow. So what does that mean? Well, it means that, when they drop a bomb on a beach and kill four Palestinian children, as happened last week, this is almost certainly an accident. They’re not targeting children. They could target as many children as they want. Every time a Palestinian child dies, Israel edges ever closer to becoming an international pariah. So the Israelis take great pains not to kill children and other noncombatants.

What do we know of the Palestinians? What would the Palestinians do to the Jews in Israel if the power imbalance were reversed? Well, they have told us what they would do. For some reason, Israel’s critics just don’t want to believe the worst about a group like Hamas, even when it declares the worst of itself.

There is only one genocide occurring at the moment and Sam unfortunately is too blind to see that Israel are conducting one and have been conducting one for sometime now. Do Israel shout about what they are doing? Of course not as they understand that the international community would have to intervene if they made their aims explicit by formally announcing ethnic cleansing or genocide. No, Israel needs to maintain an air of acceptability to their actions so they go about their business quietly with the minimum of fuss, a settlement here or there, secretly sabotage any peace talks, an incursion to defend itself every couple of years etc etc.

Hamas explicitly state their genocidal intentions in their charter but they do that in response to the genocide been carried out against them. They are merely telling Israel that they will do to it what is already being done to the Palestinians. For most sane people that makes some kind of sense. If the Jews in WW2 formed a resistance with one of its aims the extermination of the Germans then I think we would see that it is an understandable reaction to the atrocities being committed against them. That doesnt mean we condone it or support it but only that in the context of what is happening that it makes sense.

Hamas and all the other genocidal Jihadist groups in Gaza and the West Bank only exist as a consequence of Israeli actions over a number of decades. Had the Zionist issue been resolved in a more appropriate manner then i dont think any Palestinians would be calling for genocide. For heavens sake Christians and Jews lived side by side with Muslims in the region in peace for hundreds of years before the Zionists arrived. Muslims are only hostile to Jews because of the Zionist Israeli issue. It is the main source of any antisemitism, holocaust denial that occurs in the Muslim world. Israel has created a situation that perpetuated what Jews were trying to escape in Europe through their actions in Palestine.

So no Sam, you cant look at the situation that simplistically and you can't judge groups on what they say or have said but on what they do now to achieve peace. Hamas have offered a 10 year ceasefire if Israel just withdraws within the 1967 borders in accordance with international law. That doesnt sound like a compromise that a homicidal genocidal group would make if their sole intention was only to wipe out the Jews. However one side wont accept the rule of law and continues its slaughter and land grab but for some reason we dont accuse them of genocide just because they didnt enshrine it in their constitution. Laughable.

Manic Moran wrote: »

If you don't understand the mechanisms of warfare and the legal framework surrounding it, I can't help you.

Fishing boat breaks blockade, naval forces intercept, fire warning shots, fishing boat goes home, nobody killed. That's the way it's supposed to work.

What I dont understand is how Israel is taking a pick and choose approach to the mechanisms of warfare! Is targeting UN Refugee Centres & Hospitals included somewhere in this legal framework? The blatant targeting of civillians?

You see, we can all take aspects of Israels bombardment on Gaza and do exactly what you have done above which is to defend their actions and claim that they abided by the rules but the problem is bigger than that, the problem isnt just a once off attack on a fcuking fishing boat(!!!!!!) that strayed too far from land, the problem is the huge litany of war crimes that Israel has made during this whole attack!!! This isnt namby pamby nit picking, this is highlighting once again, ANOTHER item in the long list of barbaric acts carried out by Israel!!

As for saying "it may be" this and "it may be" that - say it, there is not bloody "maybe" about it!!!

Has there ever been a case where a UN probe has been called for so early in the conflict? Im not familiar with any so I am hoping it means that they know(and agree) that Israel is guilty as sin!

Manic Moran wrote: »

Last I checked, Israel was effectively in a state of armed conflict with Gaza. The blockade may be unfair, it may be excessive, it may be a political liability.... but it's legal and has been for centuries. A truce simply means you stop attacking each other, it doesn't mean that holes must appear in the lines.



If you don't understand the mechanisms of warfare and the legal framework surrounding it, I can't help you.

Fishing boat breaks blockade, naval forces intercept, fire warning shots, fishing boat goes home, nobody killed. That's the way it's supposed to work.

Legal in whose eyes - the Israelis? A Fact-Finding Mission for the UN Human Rights Council chaired by a former judge of the International Criminal Court, as well as a panel of five independent U.N. rights experts concluded that the blockade constituted collective punishment of the population of Gaza and was therefore unlawful. UN envoy Desmond Tutu, United Nations Human Rights Council head Navi Pillay, the International Committee of the Red Cross and some experts on international law consider the blockade illegal.

How one Israeli celebrates what's happened/happening in Gaza

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu6EBbrCEAATf88.jpg