Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

MagicIRL · 11-08-2014 10:52AM

Coat22 wrote: »

Vidic was also crocked for the last couple of seasons but most would still have had him this year. Varmaelen would definitely have been worth the risk IMO. Much better risk than heading into the season, playing 3 at the back and having 3 players to play there.

Plus he's been injured since the World Cup. He didn't just pick this up at Barca.

twam2008 · 11-08-2014 10:54AM

Coat22 wrote: »

Vidic was also crocked for the last couple of seasons but most would still have had him this year. Varmaelen would definitely have been worth the risk IMO. Much better risk than heading into the season, playing 3 at the back and having 3 players to play there.

Totally disagree, think we all agree that we are desperately in need of defenders, can not see any point in filling that gap with risky injury prone option.

tupac_healy · 11-08-2014 10:55AM

twam2008 wrote: »

I think that is why most people here didn't want Vermaelen, it was the injury risk as opposed to the players quality. Bullet well and truly dodged.

Impossible to say until after the window closes....

If we bring in nobody and one of the starting 3 gets injured then it will have been a poor decision on our part...

I don't think it will play out that way however. I expect we will sign Blind

Tangey99 · 11-08-2014 10:56AM

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

Weaker squad...well yes, certainly in terms of centreback positions in a classic back four. I'm not sure the new "3-at-the-back" would have suited Vidic. And as for Ferdinand, a blind man could see last season that he wasn't at the races, he was embarrassed on a number of occasions, so would he really feature in a back-3 where mobility and pace are needed ?

But we definitely do need better class for those back-3 when he plays that format, and unless pre-season means nothing, it looks like it's his preferred format. Of the 3, I think Evans is the best of the bunch, Smalling always has an error in him, and Jones, for all his undoubted commitment and honesty, isn't exactly the most subtle of players.

One overriding positive I have, before a ball is kicked, is the amount of talk coming from the camp, about the different system, and players admitting the boss was right to criticise them, everyone chatting about trying to impress the new boss and starting with a clean sheet, experience counting for little with Van gaal,and a general sense that there is a definite plan, and a 3-1 friendly win against 'pool was a disappointment for Van Gaal. Van Gaal may be have that same ability as Ferguson to extract MORE out of players than is in them. By the way, if by some miracle Van Gaal turns Young into a good player, I'll be seriously impressed.

Compare that to last year, there was nothing positive out of the camp, no sense of players starting again, all the chat about how Moyes would handle Rooney, and whether the utd task was too big. Moyes, in retrospect had the ability to extract less out of players than was in them (and if Man u last year isn't enough evidence, I refer you to Everton last season without him).

I go into the season with a sense of excitement, knowing that we aren't a brilliant squad but based on the potential for van Gaal to do well, as opposed to last season, where it was a sense of trepidation that Moyes wouldn't be big enough for the job.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 11-08-2014 10:56AM

twam2008 wrote: »

Chelsea's Marin is on the way to Fiorentina, wonder if that will lead to the exit of Cuadrado?

could well do. Strangely its only a loan though

MagicIRL · 11-08-2014 10:56AM

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

could well do. Strangely its only a loan though

Could be loan to buy option? Maybe they feel they don't have enough time to scout a perm replacement?

DM_7 · 11-08-2014 10:58AM

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

Welcome to the mad house

Tangey99 · 11-08-2014 11:04AM

Regarding Vermaelen, you might say, if he is good enough for Barca, why isn't he good enough for Man U. (I just saw an €80M buy-out clause in his barca contract ?!?!?)

You can hardly say the price was too high, £15M seems a lot better value than the £31M for Shaw.

But also, I am reminded of a certain Barca defender Gerard Pique. He's looked pretty damn good for Barca since they got him, much more so than he did at Utd, he seems such a classy defender. Defending in the Premier league is an entirely different physical contest than (mostly) in the Spanish league, and his ability to walk out with the ball wasn't seen as important at Utd.

Maximus Alexander · 11-08-2014 11:04AM

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

MagicIRL · 11-08-2014 11:05AM

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

Welcome! Just remember this:

Keep calm and love Pirlo.

FutureGuy · 11-08-2014 11:15AM

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

Weaker squad...well yes, certainly in terms of centreback positions in a classic back four. I'm not sure the new "3-at-the-back" would have suited Vidic. And as for Ferdinand, a blind man could see last season that he wasn't at the races, he was embarrassed on a number of occasions, so would he really feature in a back-3 where mobility and pace are needed ?

But we definitely do need better class for those back-3 when he plays that format, and unless pre-season means nothing, it looks like it's his preferred format. Of the 3, I think Evans is the best of the bunch, Smalling always has an error in him, and Jones, for all his undoubted commitment and honesty, isn't exactly the most subtle of players.

One overriding positive I have, before a ball is kicked, is the amount of talk coming from the camp, about the different system, and players admitting the boss was right to criticise them, everyone chatting about trying to impress the new boss and starting with a clean sheet, experience counting for little with Van gaal,and a general sense that there is a definite plan, and a 3-1 friendly win against 'pool was a disappointment for Van Gaal. Van Gaal may be have that same ability as Ferguson to extract MORE out of players than is in them. By the way, if by some miracle Van Gaal turns Young into a good player, I'll be seriously impressed.

Compare that to last year, there was nothing positive out of the camp, no sense of players starting again, all the chat about how Moyes would handle Rooney, and whether the utd task was too big. Moyes, in retrospect had the ability to extract less out of players than was in them (and if Man u last year isn't enough evidence, I refer you to Everton last season without him).

I go into the season with a sense of excitement, knowing that we aren't a brilliant squad but based on the potential for van Gaal to do well, as opposed to last season, where it was a sense of trepidation that Moyes wouldn't be big enough for the job.

Hi,
I'm Futureguy and this is my favourite post on the Citadel.

Please post more often.

Thanks.

Son Of A Vidic · 11-08-2014 11:16AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Welcome! Just remember this:

Keep calm and love Worship Pirlo.

Fixed the typo there.

cson · 11-08-2014 11:17AM

Re Vermaelen; for those of you thinking that AW wouldn't have allowed it to happen; he would have. The deal was however that Smalling came our way and LvG wouldn't agree to it.

That being said; I'm glad it didn't happen because he'd probably have been ideal in a back 3 for you.

Son Of A Vidic · 11-08-2014 11:22AM

Meanwhile, outside Turin......

TheDoc · 11-08-2014 11:25AM

Some interesting articles doing the rounds this morning, from what I consider proper journalism, in the sense they are good thought provoking pieces. John Nicholson did a piece on F365 this morning. He was very critical of the Moyes appointment from day one. The main point of his article is that while a lot of Untied fans(I'll include myself here) were blind to the obvious issues with Moyes appointment and how it would go so wrong, the same fans are being overly cautious now, muting "battles for 4th" and "4th is the target".

He outlines that if we should have learned anything, is how quickly a big club can change its fortunes rapidly. And that while fans with the blinkers on are being reserved and cautious, on the outside people are rightly looking at United as title contenders.

Have to say personally I would be " reserved" in claiming a stake for the title, in the sense of that last year was such a disaster, it might help to be a bit more realistic. But when you stand back and look at it, we are tunnel visioning on the "weakness'" in our squad, the need for a new CM, the need for a new CB. And we are somewhat forgetting the really good things we have going for us.

A new ball playing CM, a bright new LWB. A new system that will means teams having to adapt to our new play, rather then knowing how to deal with our predicable/legacy 4-4-2.

We possess the strongest strikers in the league, and arguably on paper one of the best attack lines in the league.

Had a quick check around the bookies this morning after reading this article, and in most places, we are third favourites, ahead of Arsenal and Liverpool for the title. RVP widely favourite for top goalscorer. A settled Mata now, providing service to a rejuvenated RVP and Rooney, could be seriously devastating.

I know we had a few pages back a little "whatcha think we will do" sort of thing, but I wonder if we are being so narrowing on Vidal, the need for a Cb and CM, that maybe we are ignoring the good stuff going on, and the possibility that we might actually be title contenders this year, rather then 4th place hunters. Obviously its all "having" a guess, but its interesting to read an outside persons perspective.

TheTownie · 11-08-2014 11:26AM

My hopes for this week.

Soups123 · 11-08-2014 11:26AM

cson wrote: »

Re Vermaelen; for those of you thinking that AW wouldn't have allowed it to happen; he would have. The deal was however that Smalling came our way and LvG wouldn't agree to it.

That being said; I'm glad it didn't happen because he'd probably have been ideal in a back 3 for you.

Arsene would only allow it with a player in return, he wasn't interested otherwise. United would have paid same as Barce but he wanted to sell him abroad

Maximus Alexander · 11-08-2014 11:27AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

Hi,
I'm Futureguy and this is my favourite post on the Citadel.

Please post more often.

Thanks.

I had so many favourite shops on the Citadel.

Billy86 · 11-08-2014 11:28AM

Tangey99 wrote: »

Regarding Vermaelen, you might say, if he is good enough for Barca, why isn't he good enough for Man U. (I just saw an €80M buy-out clause in his barca contract ?!?!?)

You can hardly say the price was too high, £15M seems a lot better value than the £31M for Shaw.

But also, I am reminded of a certain Barca defender Gerard Pique. He's looked pretty damn good for Barca since they got him, much more so than he did at Utd, he seems such a classy defender. Defending in the Premier league is an entirely different physical contest than (mostly) in the Spanish league, and his ability to walk out with the ball wasn't seen as important at Utd.

Vermaelen is 28, so if he works out for Barca they get about 5/6 years before he begins to get old and past it. Luke Shaw is only just gone 19, so we get about 13 years or so before that happens, hence the price difference.

Plus I think Shaw has a far higher ceiling, because Vermaelen just isn't as good as some think. At Arsenal he was caught way too far up the pitch a lot, most worryingly this also happened late in a lot of games when they were holding a lead or had a result they would have been happy with otherwise. He was offloaded in favour of Koscielny and Mertesacker who are both pretty good but far from special, and isn't on the level I would like to see from us moving forward. It's not that he is a bad player by any means, but he is not all that great either.

As for Pique he has looked good in general but has also slipped off quite a bit lately. It's not too hard to look good when you dictate possession as much as Barca did for his first few years there, but when put under pressure he has struggled a good few times. Likewise if Barca get back to dominating games I expect Vermaelen to flourish, but if they play closer to last season he may flounder.

Pique never really got a fair crock at Old Trafford though to be honest, he made some mistakes early but got jumped on like DDG from all corners, and entirely unlike say Phil Jones. That said, the moment Barca were back in for him we were never keeping him, and Ferguson may have known that which would explain why he didn't get many games (plus he was very young, only just gone 21 when he left us).

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 11-08-2014 11:45AM

Another rival strengthens.... .

brinty · 11-08-2014 11:50AM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Another rival strengthens.... .

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

Delboy5 · 11-08-2014 11:52AM

jamie jackson‏@JamieJackson___·;3 mins
As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...

Wonder if this is because Barca is his preferred destination..........

Soups123 · 11-08-2014 11:53AM

brinty wrote: »

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

Same as Shaw really very over priced

bangkok · 11-08-2014 11:56AM

brinty wrote: »

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

the reason they overpaid was due to the fact they got Fernando cheaper and the whole 3rd party ownership mess

Nalz · 11-08-2014 11:56AM

brinty wrote: »

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

City had 3 decent players who didn't make the world cup last year - Nasri, Navas and Negredo.

They'll overpay but it won't weaken them

Jules.Winnfield · 11-08-2014 11:58AM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Another rival strengthens.... .

One thing I do note from the Mangala signing is for all the slating we're doing of our own club and slow movement of transfers, nobody seems to have pointed out that it's taken Citeh an absolute age to complete this signing!

You don't just go out and hand over £40m and say 'I'll take one Hummels, please'
There is a lot goes on behind the scenes and an ever increasing number of parties to deal with for transfers in this day and age, sometimes they do get tied up quickly and sometimes there is a lot of back and forward between all the involved parties.

I feel confident (with no extra knowledge) that we will sign at least two more players before the end of the window, one of whom will be a defender. Lets all not panic and burst with irrational behavior... this is not 'rivals' forum, so lets not sound like a certain bunch of red rivals

TheTownie · 11-08-2014 12:00PM

bangkok wrote: »

we were in for both fernando and mangala but it was hard to a deal for either as fernando had 3rd party ownership so porto would receive not much of the transfer fee, so city decided to pay only 12m for fernando even though he was worth 25m but would pay porto 32-35m for mangala so they would receive all of the money, they were very complicated deals

TheTownie wrote: »

Where are you pulling this from?

Fernando had, at best, one year left on his contract. Some were reporting his contract was up this summer. He was close to signing a new deal around January but never did, probably once he got wind of City's interest.

Mangala has a complicated ownership structure. From what I have read, 33.3% owned by one party and 10% owned by another party. Porto possibly own the remaining, I can't say for sure.

I would love to see where your version of events are reported.

bangkok wrote: »

the reason they overpaid was due to the fact they got Fernando cheaper and the whole 3rd party ownership mess

I'll ask you again. Wheres your info on your version of events?

fitzer1982 · 11-08-2014 12:02PM

As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...

— jamie jackson (@JamieJackson___) August 11, 2014

Already posted above

Nalz · 11-08-2014 12:03PM

We will sign 2 more players I'd say

But when and at what cost? I'm just a little annoyed that a third signing (a utility player or a centre half) has not been signed.

Right now we've Evans, Jones, Smalling, Blackett and Keane with Carrick and Fletcher as emergency options I'd say. We need another solid name in there imo.

Who though?

Sorry to adding to the moaning and going round in circles trend that's happening in here recently.

bucketybuck · 11-08-2014 12:08PM

Delboy5 wrote: »

jamie jackson‏@JamieJackson___·;3 mins
As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...

We don't appear to have much interest in anybody these days.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

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