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ISIS are pure evil.

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12357…125

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    #122
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Someone 2 months ago on boards commented that if these spread and take over like they plan they are the biggest threat since the Nazis.

    That person was pathetically ill-informed and/or a hysterical over-reacter so.


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    #123
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    LorMal wrote: »
    Make peace with which Syrian Government? And how do they 'make peace' with Iran?'
    and Isis did not exist when America left Iraq.

    Stop threatening them with military action would be a good start & stop supplying the terrorists trying to overthrow the Syrian government with money & weapons. The reason they won't make peace with them is because Syria & Iran support the Palestinians, they want all regimes in the Middle East not to support palestine

    Al Queda existed when they left and ISIS are an offshoot of them


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    #124
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Do you have official source for your made up claim?

    The people with the highest kill rate during and after the Iraq War are ISIS themselves when they were starting to get organised.

    Yeah the hundreds of thousands of dead bodies.


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    #125
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    they seem to have appeared overnight, at a time in a time when much of the Muslim world seems in a state of flux.

    They have been around for quite some time now. They were active during the US occupation of Iraq.


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    #126
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    ireland.man wrote: »

    The actual intentional mass executions of children as a policy seems way, way beyond even the worst excesses of the Taliban or Al Qaeda. I can't imagine ISIS doing this and also winning over the support of Sunnis in Iraq. I know they shell randomly into communities and chase thousands into mountains and let them die en-masse, but up close and personal executions of children seems the sort of stories made to push for war, like Germans crucifying their enemy and throwing babies out of incubators in Belgium, and then again the same story being told of Saddam's forces in Kuwait.

    Either way, let's hope the Kurdish forces can hold them off until Baghdad gets its act together.

    There is still no official and complete information on the number of children who were murdered or who went missing, presumably murdered, in Bosnia’s 1992-5 war.

    Bosnia’s Institute for Missing Persons, INO, says each day it gets less and less information on possible potential mass graves. They are concerned that some children will never be found.

    Even babies died:

    According to the Sarajevo-based Research and Documentation Centre, IDC, 3,372 children were killed or went missing in the war, mostly in the areas of Srebrenica and Sarajevo.

    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/hope-fades-for-lost-children-of-bosnia-s-war

    The Mỹ Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: thảm sát Mỹ Lai [tʰɐ̃ːm ʂɐ̌ːt mǐˀ lɐːj], [mǐˀlɐːj] ( listen); /ˌmiːˈlaɪ/, /ˌmiːˈleɪ/, or /ˌmaɪˈlaɪ/)[1] was the Vietnam War mass killing of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968. It was committed by U.S. Army soldiers from the Company C of the 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants

    ~ Wikipedia

    Why do we imagine it is only the mad mujahideens that are capable of barbarity? If we do we are inclined towards dangerous revisionism and not learning the lessons that there is a thin and sacred veil between ourselves and chaos that we aught to tend most carefully.


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    #127
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    Yeah the hundreds of thousands of dead bodies.

    Killed by Sunni extremists?


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    #128
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »




    ~ Wikipedia

    Why do we imagine it is only the mad mujahideens that are capable of barbarity? If we do we are inclined towards dangerous revisionism and not learning the lessons that there is a thin and sacred veil between ourselves and chaos that we aught to tend most carefully.

    There's one law for the West & another for the rest of the world. That's the unfortunate truth.


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    #129
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Killed by Sunni extremists?

    Yep, it must be mad Muslims who are responsible for every death in Iraq.


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    #130
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Do you have an official source for your made up claim?

    The people with the highest kill rate during and after the Iraq War are ISIS themselves when they were starting to get organised.


    Why is it people feel the need to make things up, to blacken an obviously evil group?


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    #131
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Someone 2 months ago on boards commented that if these spread and take over like they plan they are the biggest threat since the Nazis.

    That's why peace & a military alliance should be made with Iran because there a huge threat to Iran.


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    #132
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    Stop threatening them with military action would be a good start & stop supplying the terrorists trying to overthrow the Syrian government with money & weapons. The reason they won't make peace with them is because Syria & Iran support the Palestinians, they want all regimes in the Middle East not to support palestine

    Al Queda existed when they left and ISIS are an offshoot of them

    i'm sorry but that post is completely wrong on every point.


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    #133
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Do you have an official source for your made up claim?

    The people with the highest kill rate during and after the Iraq War are ISIS themselves when they were starting to get organised.

    It's generally accepted that about a million people died between 2003-2013


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    #134
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    Yep, it must be mad Muslims who are responsible for every death in Iraq.

    Who said that?


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    #135
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    LorMal wrote: »
    i'm sorry but that post is completely wrong on every point.

    It seemed correct to me.


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    #136
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Can people post links to any mainstream papers that have evidence that children are being systematically executed by ISIS? I'm 100% for the international community stepping in to support the Kurds and Iraqis but I'd like some evidence to back up claims of atrocities.

    I think peoples willingness to believe in children being butchered like that is down to their already existing hatred of the enemy. It reinforces their opinions and feels good to know they're right in their hatred. There's no need for evidence when we 'know' ISIS is so evil anyway, right?

    It's no harm in this case when ISIS is in fact a horrible group and I'd gladly see them wiped out by anyone. But not needing evidence for crimes youre using as part of a justification for war, black and white thinking- believing the enemy's completely evil and therefore apolitical, enjoying the thrill of being outraged, using one horrible case to support already existing prejudice, coming up with solutions based on emotions rather than sound political thinking... it just seems ironic this is happening on the anniversary of WW1.


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    #137
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Worth posting this again.

    As late as this year - early 2014 - the US neo cons were arguing for intervention in Syria against both Assad and "Hezbollah" and in favour of the other groups in Syria, particularly Sunni groups.

    John McCain visited rebels in Syria.

    http://m.bbc.com/news/...d-us-canada-22683261

    ISIS is a US creation.


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    #138
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    It's generally accepted that about a million people died between 2003-2013

    The poster said that America killed over 100,000. I dont have a clue where he/she got these numbers from. Most of the people killed in Iraq were killed by Iraqi's.


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    #139
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Can people post links to any mainstream papers that have evidence that children are being systematically executed by ISIS? I'm 100% for the international community stepping in to support the Kurds and Iraqis but I'd like some evidence to back up claims of atrocities.

    I think peoples willingness to believe in children being butchered like that is down to their already existing hatred of the enemy. It reinforces their opinions and feels good to know they're right in their hatred. There's no need for evidence when we 'know' ISIS is so evil anyway, right?

    It's no harm in this case when ISIS is in fact a horrible group and I'd gladly see them wiped out by anyone. But not needing evidence for crimes youre using as part of a justification for war, black and white thinking- believing the enemy's completely evil and therefore apolitical, enjoying the thrill of being outraged, using one horrible case to support already existing prejudice, coming up with solutions based on emotions rather than sound political thinking... it just seems ironic this is happening on the anniversary of WW1.

    You looking for links ..........Have you had your head buried in the sand for the last 6 months ?

    Use google , and you will find plenty links , including the beheading of children


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    #140
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    allthedoyles wrote: »
    You looking for links ..........Have you had your head buried in the sand for the last 6 months ?

    Use google , and you will find plenty links , including the beheading of children

    So I take it that's a no from you? There's pics of horrible crimes and its enough for me to want ISIS wiped out by anyone, I don't care who does it (normally I'm against Western military interventions). But the systematic executions of children being claimed in right and Christian papers and now here, that seems to be strangely without evidence or mentioned anywhere else.


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    #141
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    The poster said that America killed over 100,000. I dont have a clue where he/she got these numbers from. Most of the people killed in Iraq were killed by Iraqi's.

    Everybody died because of a war based on a tissue of lies.


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    #142
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,141 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    Not often I see something that makes me feel upset but to do that to a child all in the name of whatever gob****e they follow... Beyond scum.


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    #143
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    ireland.man wrote: »
    So I take it that's a no from you?

    Links have been removed from this thread ..........Have you not been following it ?


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    #144
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Every time somebody dismisses an historical figure, be it Shakespeare, Jesus, or Muhammed they need a counter narrative. You say that Islamic sources concocted Muhammed years later, but then where did the Islamic sources come from?
    My point was that when all you have is one side written at least a century afterwards historical details can't be a given. As history has proven time and time again hagiography and exaggeration are near givens in origin narratives.

    How might Islam have arisen by a different narrative? Local split off religious sect of Abrahamic extraction but more based on Christianity brings forth someone as a leader/warlord with religious tendencies(or a couple of someones conflated as one later on. Common enough. QV St Patrick). Muhammed itself is both a name and an honourific title. Unlikely to have been named such as a kid(unless Muhammed was the son of an existing successful warlord/religious leader). They have small scale skirmishes with other local tribes(which was a near sport in the area), but get the upper hand. Numbers and wealth accumulate. Organically the alliances grow with each success and the sects beliefs bond the group along with any leader(s).

    As their success grows they also start to codify the sects parameters. When the leader dies, this really kicks off and the past is further codified and revved up. Again this builds up over time quite quickly until the new state builds up to a point where it has to make it's origin story official and remove any connection to its previous incarnation as a sect of an existing faith. Islam is very strong in rejecting direct connections to and influence both Judaism and Christianity, even though it's obviously a continuation of both, especially the latter. To get over the obvious they claim two things; Islam is the true Abrahamic faith and the others are corrupted. Islam has always existed and Moses, Jesus and all the others were actually Muslims(and possibly Alexander the Great. Yep...).

    The existing stories, mostly based on an oral tradition are collected and winnowed to set the standard text and the standard codices of the faith and then you have Islam(not too dissimilar happened with Christianity and Islam itself notes such a collection and winnowing). Later additions are embellishments to the background narrative staying within the boundaries of the official narrative. So you end up with an official narrative that is internally in agreement, but may be far from accurate historically.

    Was there a new Arabic prophet/warlord who inspired a local group of tribes? Pretty likely. However beyond that and without external sources to back it up the origin narrative is completely up for grabs as far as history is concerned and more likely full of fable and exaggeration. Ditto for Jesus. Did he exist? Almost certainly as Paul has correspondence with people who were contemporaneous and actually knew a man of that name in life. The rest, the stories, the miracles etc? Completely up for grabs historically.
    Why did they think they were Islamic to begin with.
    They likely didn't at first. The very first Christians saw themselves as a new Jewish sect.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #145
    EmptyTree
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭EmptyTree


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Can people post links to any mainstream papers that have evidence that children are being systematically executed by ISIS? I'm 100% for the international community stepping in to support the Kurds and Iraqis but I'd like some evidence to back up claims of atrocities.

    I think peoples willingness to believe in children being butchered like that is down to their already existing hatred of the enemy. It reinforces their opinions and feels good to know they're right in their hatred. There's no need for evidence when we 'know' ISIS is so evil anyway, right?

    It's no harm in this case when ISIS is in fact a horrible group and I'd gladly see them wiped out by anyone. But not needing evidence for crimes youre using as part of a justification for war, black and white thinking- believing the enemy's completely evil and therefore apolitical, enjoying the thrill of being outraged, using one horrible case to support already existing prejudice, coming up with solutions based on emotions rather than sound political thinking... it just seems ironic this is happening on the anniversary of WW1.

    Your post is completely contradictory.

    Besides, do you really think all those people are fleeing because ISIS are going to introduce property and water charges??


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    #146
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    LorMal wrote: »
    Sneering cynical nonsense. What do you propose should done about ISIS?

    Nothing. Same way as I propose doing nothing about my next door neighbours broken car. If it was my car, it would be my problem. If these ISIS chaps were rampaging through Dublin, again, my problem, but Iraq? Dafuq that got to do with us? Or US? Who died and made them them world police? Countries have internal strife, there you go. Is it nice? No. Is it good? No. Is it anyone elses business? No. Let Iraq sort out itself. If it had been allowed do that from the get-go, there wouldn't be these problems now. MYOB, till it becomes your business.


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    #147
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    EmptyTree wrote: »
    Your post is completely contradictory.

    Besides, do you really think all those people are fleeing because ISIS are going to introduce property and water charges??

    I agree that ISIS has committed so many war crimes/ horrendous things. I believe they've done these things because of the evidence that exists regarding them as can be seen in the media and from reputable NGOs and groups working on the ground in Iraq and Syria.

    I wanted to know if similar sources of evidence existed regarding the huge claim that they're executing children systematically. There's no need to try to convince me how bad they are, etc, I just wanted to see if people bothered with direct evidence rather than assuming something is true because they're not "fleeing because ISIS are going to introduce property and water charges".


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    #148
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    allthedoyles wrote: »
    Links have been removed from this thread ..........Have you not been following it ?

    Apologies for that.


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    #149
    EmptyTree
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭EmptyTree


    ireland.man wrote: »
    I agree that ISIS has committed so many war crimes/ horrendous things. I believe they've done these things because of the evidence that exists regarding them as can be seen in the media and from reputable NGOs and groups working on the ground in Iraq and Syria.

    I wanted to know if similar sources of evidence existed regarding the huge claim that they're executing children systematically. There's no need to try to convince me how bad they are, etc, I just wanted to see if people bothered with direct evidence rather than assuming something is true because they're not "fleeing because ISIS are going to introduce property and water charges".

    Ok, fair enough, I see where you're coming from now. I made the unfortunate mistake of looking at the link posted by the OP before it was removed - I stopped looking fairly quickly! Awful scenes.


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    #150
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    CptMackey wrote: »
    It's great to see this religion of peace at it again. Where are all the protests from those who took to the streets over some cartoons and where are the left now?

    All because people follow some made up man in the sky.

    If it wouldn't kill more innocent people a nuke would be the job for these animals

    Meh. The 150,000 retreating Iraqi troops incinerated by Western bombers might disagree, as would the incalculable number of Iraqi, Pakistani, Afghan and other civilians killed in the past decade by the West. ISIS might be slaughtering people, but we showed them a pretty good example of how it's done. To now engage in hand-wringing and roaring about "savages" tends to forget that we're fairly savage too. Much more savage IMO. We just use nice tidy bombs and artillery, not knives. The end result is the same though, only the methods vary. So be careful who you brand a savage..


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    #151
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    The people with the highest kill rate during and after the Iraq War are ISIS themselves when they were starting to get organised.

    When the US invaded Iraq the security of the country became their problem.


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