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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #3632
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    Its kind of strange her view as well as the activity of the twitter and facebook accounts linked with the embassy. They don't seem to be too in tune with Ireland given they are here to promote ties.

    Like I said - 'almost far right yahoos'. Imagine the ones they thought unsuitable for the post..........


  • #3633
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    She should be sent back. Her behaviour is not very deputy ambassador like.


  • #3634
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    h2005 wrote: »
    She should be sent back. Her behaviour is not very deputy ambassador like.


    their facebook page has been taken down, but it contains(ed) rants against protests, the irish times......very bizarre. Been going on for years too.


  • #3635
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    Its kind of strange her view as well as the activity of the twitter and facebook accounts linked with the embassy. They don't seem to be too in tune with Ireland or interested in much in the way of promoting ties.
    1. US veto
    2. US weapons
    3. US money


    Beyond that they give about as many ****s now what anybody else thinks.


  • #3636
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Not sure if this has been posted but I found it very interesting. Link and full transcript.

    UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay at an Informal Plenary Meeting of the General Assembly on the situation in Gaza. 6 Aug
    Mr. President,
    Distinguished Members of the General Assembly,
    Excellencies,

    The hostilities between Israel and Hamas, and other armed groups in Gaza, have raged now for almost a month, causing immeasurable suffering and damage. The current tenuous ceasefire offers a critical chance for the parties to move from violence to peace.

    Casualties

    Alongside others in the international community, I have repeatedly stated to all parties that civilians must not be targeted, and must be protected. Yet, as of 5 August, some 1,350 civilian Palestinians, including more than 400 children, had been killed, and thousands injured, since the launch of the Israeli military operation on the night of 7 July. For Palestinian civilians caught in the midst of the hostilities, there is little protection or refuge to be found.

    Israeli civilians face a barrage of rockets and mortars launched from Gaza, causing fear and insecurity. Since 7 July, three civilians have been killed in Israel and dozens more wounded.

    International law

    I have consistently condemned the indiscriminate rocket fire from Gaza into Israel, and I have been equally clear that military assets should not be located in densely populated areas. However, I reiterate that actions by one party do not absolve the other party of its obligations under international law.

    International law requires application of the principles of distinction between civilians and combatants, and between civilian objects and military objectives; proportionality; and precautions in attack. Any attacks in violation of these principles, on civilians, homes, schools and hospitals, must be condemned, and may amount to war crimes.

    Context of occupation

    The current conflict in Gaza cannot accurately be viewed in isolation from repeated Israeli military operations in Gaza, or from the protracted occupation.
    In 1967, Security Council resolution 242 affirmed that fulfilment of the principles of the United Nations Charter requires the withdrawal of Israel’s armed forces from territories occupied, and a just settlement of the refugee problem.
    That resolution – like many subsequent resolutions relating to the Occupied Palestinian Territory – has been ignored. Many of those trapped in Gaza today are refugees and their descendants. Repeated hostilities, occupation, the suffocating effects of the illegal blockade in place since 2007 and of the access restricted areas imposed by Israel, have made life in Gaza virtually unsustainable.
    The severe effects of the occupation in Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, on human rights, including the right to self-determination, must be addressed.

    Humanitarian situation

    The humanitarian situation in Gaza is at breaking point. Thousands of homes have been destroyed and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been displaced. People need water, food, shelter, electricity, and above all safety. However, hospitals and ambulances, schools, including even United Nations premises, have not been protected in this conflict.

    Hospitals, and personnel engaged in searching for, transporting and caring for wounded and sick civilians, must be safeguarded. The very specific protective status of these locations must be respected at all times. In addition, civilian objects such as homes and schools are prima facie not legitimate targets, and all necessary precautions should be taken to protect civilian lives.

    Accountability

    It is a terrible failure for humanity not to act to avert yet another devastating crisis in Gaza – one that has now superseded, in casualties and duration, the Israeli military operations of 2008/2009. The need for investigation and accountability raised then, and after the 2012 military operation, have not been met. A lasting solution to this protracted conflict must be found.

    The Commission of Inquiry established by the Human Rights Council last month will help to establish clarity regarding acts committed by all parties, thus beginning to address accountability issues related to the current hostilities in Gaza, as well as to the West Bank including East Jerusalem. Its conclusions and recommendations, which will be presented in March 2015, should be carefully considered and followed with appropriate action.

    The 2009 Fact-Finding Mission on Gaza noted the need for the International Criminal Court to address the situation. Such a recommendation is still relevant today. The ICC’s role is to end impunity and render justice in cases where national authorities have been unable or unwilling to do so.

    Conclusion

    Mr. President,

    Over the years there have been constant efforts to evade the binding nature of international human rights law and international humanitarian law, in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory. But there can be no exceptions to these legal norms. They ensure that our societies maintain respect for common values and human dignity – indeed, human life.

    There can be no true security without justice and respect for human rights. Adherence to international humanitarian law and international human rights law, and ensuring accountability for violations, are essential pre-requisites for any lasting peace.

    For the sake of both Palestinians and Israelis, the parties to the conflict, the Security Council, the General Assembly and individual States must act to bring this dreadful conflict to an end. The Secretary General has strongly called for talks, to lay the groundwork for a durable ceasefire and for comprehensive negotiations on the underlying issues – including an end to the illegal blockade of Gaza and to almost five decades of occupation. This is indeed the only hope for peace.


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  • #3637
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Why Everything Reported from Gaza is Crazy Twisted

    Mark Lavie

    Veteran reporter for AP, NPR, NBC, and CBC, and author of Broken Spring: An American-Israeli Reporter's Close-Up View of How Egyptians Lost Their Struggle for Freedom


    The images coming out of the Gaza Strip are heart-wrenching. They are also part of a deliberate and sophisticated distortion machine. A veteran journalist takes us inside. You’re seeing civilians dying and suffering in Gaza. You’re seeing the destruction Israel’s military operation against Hamas has caused.

    You’re hearing from Israel that Hamas is firing rockets from crowded neighborhoods, using helpless Gaza civilians as human shields, forcing them to stay in their neighborhoods in defiance of Israeli warnings to leave.


    Why aren’t you hearing that from Gaza? Often, it’s because reporters are afraid to tell you.


    True, in some cases, it’s anti-Israel bias. In others, it’s bad journalism—covering the story you can easily see above ground, like destruction, misery, death and funerals, instead of digging for the real story: Why this is happening and how the powerful are operating behind the scenes or underground—again, literally. It’s the scourge of 21st century “journalism,” with its instant deadlines, the demands to tweet and blog constantly, the need to get something out there that’s more spectacular than the competition, and check the facts later, if at all. Add to that the cruel cutbacks by news organizations around the world. It all means that fewer and fewer reporters have to file more and more stories, and file partial reports while they’re working. It’s impossible. I allow myself the quotation marks around “journalism” because I’ve been a journalist for half a century (I started young), covering the region since 1972, and I fear my profession is not what it used to be, and not for the better.
    So those elements are parts of the reason why you’re not getting the whole story from Gaza. But the most important element is intimidation of reporters on the ground.


    It’s nothing new. I’ve experienced it for decades. Autocratic regimes threaten, attack and jail reporters who write anything critical of those in power. Other reporters get the message and just don’t do it.
    Bringing this element of the Gaza situation to light entails some real dangers. It’s a saga that can’t be told directly in detail. If it is, and if specific reporters can be identified here, people will be harmed. Not just the reporters, but their families, too. But if this isn’t told, you’ll be harmed. You won’t know why you don’t get the whole story.


    http://www.thetower.org/article/why-everything-reported-from-gaza-is-crazy-twisted/


  • #3638
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    h2005 wrote: »
    She should be sent back. Her behaviour is not very deputy ambassador like.

    Her statement that she is operating in a nation of "heathens", if accurate, is unprofessional at best and as someone that is generally pro-Israel I certainly would not defend it.

    But the context whereby the Israeli embassy is constantly under barrage from protestors, whereas the same protestors never do anything to support (for example) the Falun Gong protestors outside the Chinese embassy, possibly has influenced her opinions on Ireland.

    Possibly she has noticed that there are a lot of people in Ireland that get very angry about allegations of wrongdoing allegedly committed by Israel but are inconsistent as regards not protesting against other states operating in similar or worse fashion.


  • #3639
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    porsche959 wrote: »

    But the context whereby the Israeli embassy is constantly under barrage from protestors, whereas the same protestors never do anything to support (for example) the Falun Gong protestors outside the Chinese embassy, possibly has influenced her opinions on Ireland.

    Possibly she has noticed that there are a lot of people in Ireland that get very angry about allegations of wrongdoing allegedly committed by Israel but are inconsistent as regards not protesting against other states operating in similar or worse fashion.

    The embassy is under constant barrage because of the nature of the state it represents. It seriously pi$$es of a very active minority of people through constant human rights breaches and ignores every facet of international law that it can get away with.
    A lot of Irish people are very pi$$ed of about it because it is beyond allegations of wrongdoing, its recorded facts, that can be proven were commited by the IDF and nothing can be done about it. It's been going on longer than any of the other states that are operating in similar or worse fashion, and they are still trying to be magnanimous and legitimate by even deigning to maintain an ambassadorial presence in Ireland.
    They should be ejected, it should be done now. Allowing them to stay offers legitimacy to what is an aggressive state guilty of war crimes. Until they have been called to heel and someone answers to the charges, they do not have a right to be treated with the same protocol as peaceful just countries.

    The presence is an offense to our constitution and should be politely requested to pack up and jog on.


  • #3640
    Thrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    Israel Army: Two rockets have been fired from Gaza breaking ceasefire.


  • #3641
    bboybaboy19
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭bboybaboy19


    Thrill wrote: »
    Israel Army: Two rockets have been fired from Gaza breaking ceasefire.

    Source?


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  • #3642
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Thrill wrote: »
    Israel Army: Two rockets have been fired from Gaza breaking ceasefire.

    When I checked this morning (I'm taking a Command and General Staff Officer's Course right now, and one of my class duties is the morning news roundup), Israel had offered to extend the extant truce, Hamas hadn't said if it would or not. Which, given all the Israelis had supposedly left Gaza, I found a bit strange.

    Interesting video released by IDF showing the bombing of the Wafa hospital. They fairly plastered it. It is, of course, impossible to tell if the recorded 'phone calls to the hospital director indicating the hospital was empty, or the video of the weapons flashes in the windows were faked, but if the secondary explosions were fake, they did a damned good job of it and I'm inclined to believe them. The building shown getting bombed do seem to match overhead views of the hospital I've found on other sites.


  • #3643
    Thrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    bboybaboy19 wrote: »
    Source?

    Gaza rockets hit Israel as ceasefire expiry nears: army

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/gaza-rockets-hit-israel/1302812.html?cid=TWTCNA&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


  • #3644
    Thrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Israel had offered to extend the extant truce, Hamas hadn't said if it would or not. .

    Numerous reports I've read throughout today stated that Hamas said that if their demands were not met they would resume fighting after the ceasefire.


    .


  • #3645
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    The presence is an offense to our constitution and should be politely requested to pack up and jog on.

    Under what section of the constitution?


  • #3646
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    I'm guessing by asking that question that you've never read the constitution but we'll start off with"
    ARTICLE 29

    1 Ireland affirms its devotion to the ideal of peace and friendly co-operation amongst nations founded on international justice and morality.


    2 Ireland affirms its adherence to the principle of the pacific settlement of international disputes by international arbitration or judicial determination.


    3 Ireland accepts the generally recognised principles of international law as its rule of conduct in its relations with other States.


    And if you would like to continue, you can find it in full at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/en/constitution/index.html#part7

    Maintaining an ambassadorial relationship with a government that is behaving in the manner they have flies in the face of the above, and easily justifies asking them to fork off until they have made amends.


  • #3647
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    I'm guessing by asking that question that you've never read the constitution but we'll start off with"

    And if you would like to continue, you can find it in full at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/en/constitution/index.html#part7

    Maintaining an ambassadorial relationship with a government that is behaving in the manner they have flies in the face of the above, and easily justifies asking them to fork off until they have made amends.

    I have, in fact, read the Constitution, on many occasions. It's an interesting document, which - as I'm sure you're aware, what with you being a constitutional scholar and all - until 1977, demanded that the RC be the officially recognised state church, until 1995, denied the right of divorce, and to this day, denies the right of terminations for women with unwanted pregnancy. So you'll forgive me if I don't take DeValera's Bunreacht na hEireann as The Ultimate Wisdom on All Moral Matters, especially what with you being a hippy and all that. You'll probably allow that, no?

    The section you've quoted expresses lovely, nice-sounding (almost hippyish, actually!) sentiments, which in practical effects are essentially meaningless for a small island off the coast of north-western Europe. We're in Skibbereen Eagle territory here.

    The reason I asked the question is that I was trying to clarify which specific element of Bunreacht na hEireann you think justifies throwing out the Israeli ambassador to Ireland. Thanks for clarifying which element you think does.

    In regards to the above, I take it you are fully consistent and also demand that, for example, the Chinese ambassador be expelled?


  • #3648
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    porsche959 wrote: »
    I have, in fact, read the Constitution, on many occasions. It's an interesting document, which - as I'm sure you're aware, what with you being a constitutional scholar and all - until 1977, demanded that the RC be the officially recognised state church, until 1995, denied the right of divorce, and to this day, denies the right of terminations for women with unwanted pregnancy. So you'll forgive me if I don't take DeValera's Bunreacht na hEireann as The Ultimate Wisdom on All Moral Matters, especially what with you being a hippy and all that. You'll probably allow that, no?

    The section you've quoted expresses lovely, nice-sounding (almost hippyish, actually!) sentiments, which in practical effects are essentially meaningless for a small island off the coast of north-western Europe. We're in Skibbereen Eagle territory here.

    The reason I asked the question is that I was trying to clarify which specific element of Bunreacht na hEireann you think justifies throwing out the Israeli ambassador to Ireland. Thanks for clarifying which element you think does.

    In regards to the above, I take it you are fully consistent and also demand that, for example, the Chinese ambassador be expelled?



    To say that any part of the constitution is meaningless means you believe the entire document is meaningless, every statement in it must carry the weight of the entire constitution, without that basis, well you can see where that goes.
    As to the previous versions of the constitution, you have pointed out amendments that were made to increase the rights and freedoms of the citizens of the country, and to reduce the control and influence of the clergy. But surely you aren't suggesting that we make the same constitutional amendments to enable friendly ambassadorial relations with genocidaires, war criminals and aggressive warmongers ?

    Whataboutery aside,

    I do not agree 100% with the expulsion of the Chinese ambassador, as the circumstances that you have highlighted regarding Tibet and the Falun Gong situation are entirely different.

    But you do make some very interesting strawmen.

    As for being fully consistent, that is not one of my requirements as a responsible human being, nor is it a trait of the vast majority.


  • #3649
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    To say that any part of the constitution is meaningless means you believe the entire document is meaningless, every statement in it must carry the weight of the entire constitution, without that basis, well you can see where that goes.

    I dont know whether I consider it meaningless but the preamble certainly has little meaning for a vast percentage of the population. The entire document is written "in the name of the Holy Trinity"!

    "In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred"

    "We, the people of Éire,
    Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,"


  • #3650
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Thrill wrote: »
    Numerous reports I've read throughout today stated that Hamas said that if their demands were not met they would resume fighting after the ceasefire.

    That strikes me as being a really stupid position. Surely they must know what will happen if they decide to fire a barrage of rockets at 8am when the truce ends. If it's not downright stupid, it's extremely callous, as a whole lot more Palestinians will die for whatever political goal they have in mind.


  • #3651
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    I'm guessing by asking that question that you've never read the constitution but we'll start off with"

    It seems to me that that section is a statement of preference, not exclusivity. After all, Article 28 gives Dail Eireann the power to declare war or otherwise partake in one. (Incidentally, direct evidence about all this neutrality crap we keep seeing. Neutral countries don't declare war on people. I see no mention of the ability to declare war in the Swiss Constitution, after a quick scan, nor any mention in Sweden's, though I didn't go through all four documents). If the commitment to peaceful settlement was an exclusive concept, there would be little purpose in that part of Art 28. Ergo, the Constitution also acknowledges the ability/right to settle issues by force of arms if so decided.


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  • #3652
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    hju6 wrote: »
    The sins of their fathers
    A relative of Hitler is now Jewish and living in Israel. So is the son of a Waffen-SS man. Tanya Gold talks to the descendants of Nazis who have embraced Judaism

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/06/judaism.secondworldwar

    Brought the culture with him

    Whatever about legitimate criticism of Israel's response to Hamas this post is a disgraceful effort trying to use anything however minor or trivial as a way to tarnish Israel. Well-done.


  • #3653
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    That strikes me as being a really stupid position. Surely they must know what will happen if they decide to fire a barrage of rockets at 8am when the truce ends. If it's not downright stupid, it's extremely callous, as a whole lot more Palestinians will die for whatever political goal they have in mind.

    It seems as if Hamas knows that it cannot win militarily so the only way to win is to cause more conflict, keeping antagonising Israel, poke it with a stick time and again and when the angry bear takes a massive swipe back invite the worlds media to report on the scores of dead civilians..... and hope to win via sympathy and world wide pressure on Israel.

    It is basicly an admission that the suffering of people of Gaza do not matter to their aims (whatever they may be). Will we expect wide spread condemnation from the west regarding this strategy. Nope..


  • #3654
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    jank wrote: »
    It seems as if Hamas knows that it cannot win militarily so the only way to win is to cause more conflict, keeping antagonising Israel, poke it with a stick time and again and when the angry bear takes a massive swipe back invite the worlds media to report on the scores of dead civilians..... and hope to win via sympathy and world wide pressure on Israel.

    It is basicly an admission that the suffering of people of Gaza do not matter to their aims (whatever they may be). Will we expect wide spread condemnation from the west regarding this strategy. Nope..

    We are back where we were a month ago before Israel first responded. Hamas have no regard for Palestinians, the more that are killed the better as far as they are concerned, and they are more than willing to fan the flames. They also know they will no receive any where near the condemnation that Israel has received, regardless of their actions.

    Disappointing but not surprising.

    No doubt they have stockpiled concrete and are already working on new tunnels rather than using the concrete for humanitarian purposes i.e. rebuilding homes, hospitals, schools etc.


  • #3655
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    That strikes me as being a really stupid position. Surely they must know what will happen if they decide to fire a barrage of rockets at 8am when the truce ends. If it's not downright stupid, it's extremely callous, as a whole lot more Palestinians will die for whatever political goal they have in mind.

    Their strategy is clear. Hamas know at this stage that any Palestinian deaths will instigate a knee-jerk reaction against Israel from the Western layman.


  • #3656
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    jank wrote: »
    It seems as if Hamas knows that it cannot win militarily so the only way to win is to cause more conflict, keeping antagonising Israel, poke it with a stick time and again and when the angry bear takes a massive swipe back invite the worlds media to report on the scores of dead civilians..... and hope to win via sympathy and world wide pressure on Israel.

    It is basicly an admission that the suffering of people of Gaza do not matter to their aims (whatever they may be). Will we expect wide spread condemnation from the west regarding this strategy. Nope..

    The thing is that these people don't value life. The lives of their fellow Gazans are expendable because death is where the rewards are. In the West, we are brought up to value life so we can't understand the extreme mentalities of these combatants. Here it is put by someone who does understand:
    Israel is investing everything it has into life on earth” while “Hamas is investing everything it has into life after death,” says Hirsi Ali.

    She points to the Hamas recruiting slogan of “we love death, they love life” and their vision of a “utopia” where “the State of Israel must be completely destroyed,” “Sharia law has to be established, ideally, all over the world,” and women have to “be locked up.”

    Unless the West is willing to give in to their utopia, “it is pointless to go to the negotiations table” because of Hamas’ “philosophy on life and death.”

    “They welcome death, death, death,” says Hirsi Ali. “In the Hamas narrative, which is also the Wahabi narrative and the Salafi narrative, you get to ecstasy and self actualization after you die, not before you die, don’t be silly. So now you have millions of people who welcome death, and that is very confusing for Westerners to understand.”

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/somalian-human-rights-activist-gives-her-take-on-israel-hamas-conflict/


  • #3657
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    From a Norwegian surgeon who was in Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital, treating the casualties of the Israeli bombings

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-palestinian-resistance-gaza-fighting-all-us-says-dr-mads-gilbert


  • #3658
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Her statement (...........)operating in similar or worse fashion.

    Would you care to get back to me on this please
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91623827&postcount=3581


  • #3659
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    folamh wrote: »
    The thing is that these people don't value life. The lives of their fellow Gazans are expendable because death is where the rewards are. In the West, we are brought up to value life so we can't understand the extreme mentalities of these combatants. Here it is put by someone who does understand:



    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/somalian-human-rights-activist-gives-her-take-on-israel-hamas-conflict/


    For a second there I thought we were talking about Israel that's colonising the occupied territories, bumps off UN and NGO workers and kids. This must be some hippy relatives in some nice mellow place.


  • #3660
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    jank wrote: »
    It seems as if Hamas knows that it cannot win militarily so the only way to win is to cause more conflict, keeping antagonising Israel, poke it with a stick time and again and when the angry bear takes a massive swipe back invite the worlds media to report on the scores of dead civilians..... and hope to win via sympathy and world wide pressure on Israel.

    It is basicly an admission that the suffering of people of Gaza do not matter to their aims (whatever they may be). Will we expect wide spread condemnation from the west regarding this strategy. Nope..

    :rolleyes:


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  • #3661
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Arthur Beesley wrote: »
    We are back where we were a month ago before Israel first responded. Hamas have no regard for Palestinians, the more that are killed the better as far as they are concerned, and they are more than willing to fan the flames. They also know they will no receive any where near the condemnation that Israel has received, regardless of their actions.

    Disappointing but not surprising.

    No doubt they have stockpiled concrete and are already working on new tunnels rather than using the concrete for humanitarian purposes i.e. rebuilding homes, hospitals, schools etc.

    Please tell me how does one "stockpile" concrete for tunnels?


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