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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #3602
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Palestinian shift brings war crimes case closer to Israel:

    THE HAGUE/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The possibility of a war crimes investigation into the conduct of Israeli forces in Gaza, until recently unthinkable, has grown after the Palestinians said this week they wanted to become a party to the International Criminal Court.

    The world's permanent war crimes court in The Hague declined two years ago to investigate allegations against the Israeli military in 2008-2009, citing the uncertain legal status of the Palestinian Authority.

    A lot has changed since then.

    Fresh allegations of war crimes have flowed in recent weeks from fighting in Gaza, where Israel responded to a surge in rocket attacks by Hamas militants with air strikes and a ground incursion. The Palestinians this week unexpectedly said they are just one procedural step away from ICC membership.

    "If Palestine applies it will be admitted to the ICC," John Dugard, international law professor and a former U.N. Special Rapporteur for the Palestinian territories, told Reuters.

    "The U.N. has spoken and it has recognized the state of Palestine and it is now for the ICC to admit Palestine. I cannot see how that can be resisted."
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0G723M20140807?irpc=932

    Isn't going to plan this time Israel has crossed the line wonder is it starting to sink in yet, little by little it will.


  • #3603
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    porsche959 wrote: »
    There was man in Germany in the 1930s who was also democractically elected....
    One country is an adherent of racism, eugenics and genocide, a big fan of some ancient fantasy symbol on their flag and claims some sort of divine right to steal land for their own race.
    The other is Nazi Germany.


  • #3604
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    porsche959 wrote: »
    There was man in Germany in the 1930s who was also democractically elected....

    One is a State, which ethnically cleansed and terrorised the original inhabitants from their lands. Thus creating a false majority and a gerrymandered state, based on hate and intolerance.

    The other state - Nazi Germany. Well in may ways, they would be the ideological brothers of the Zionists terrorists and their Greater Israel. Since both subscribe to hate filled ideologies, both of which are heavy on 'cleansing' and 'lebensraum' principles.


  • #3605
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    The sins of their fathers
    A relative of Hitler is now Jewish and living in Israel. So is the son of a Waffen-SS man. Tanya Gold talks to the descendants of Nazis who have embraced Judaism

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/06/judaism.secondworldwar

    Brought the culture with him


  • #3606
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    hju6 wrote: »
    The sins of their fathers
    A relative of Hitler is now Jewish and living in Israel. So is the son of a Waffen-SS man. Tanya Gold talks to the descendants of Nazis who have embraced Judaism

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/06/judaism.secondworldwar

    Brought the culture with him

    They certainly seemed to have learned many lessons from their past.


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  • #3607
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    porsche959 wrote: »
    There was man in Germany in the 1930s who was also democractically elected....

    Hitler founded Israel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-1ts3VTeeI


  • #3608
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    War Crimes indeed but will anyone pay?
    This is a shocking indictment of the Israeli regime and the complete disrespect for the lives of children in Palestine --

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10984259/Revealed-the-Palestinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html


  • #3609
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Thats upsetting to read.


  • #3610
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    porsche959 wrote: »
    You say "even Knesset member" as though it is complete news that there is diversity of opinion in Israeli society and in the Knesset. As though they are all marching in step doing whatever Netanyahu orders.

    I agree that IDF investigations into themselves not a good way to go in general.

    Would you care to get back to me on this please?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91623827&postcount=3581


  • #3611
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "When Ahmed Owedat returned to his home 18 days after Israeli soldiers took it over in the middle of the night, he was greeted with an overpowering stench.
    He picked through the wreckage of his possessions thrown from upstairs windows to find that the departing troops had left a number of messages. One came from piles of faeces on his tiled floors and in wastepaper baskets, and a plastic bottle filled with urine.
    If that was not clear enough, the words "**** Hamas" had been carved into a concrete wall in the staircase. "Burn Gaza down" and "Good Arab = dead Arab" were engraved on a coffee table. The star of David was drawn in blue in a bedroom."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/palestinians-return-home-israeli-troops-faeces-graffiti?CMP=fb_gu

    And no, this is not the first time its happened
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/015/2009/en/8f299083-9a74-4853-860f-0563725e633a/mde150152009en.pdf


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  • #3612
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Nodin wrote: »
    "When Ahmed Owedat returned to his home 18 days after Israeli soldiers took it over in the middle of the night, he was greeted with an overpowering stench.
    He picked through the wreckage of his possessions thrown from upstairs windows to find that the departing troops had left a number of messages. One came from piles of faeces on his tiled floors and in wastepaper baskets, and a plastic bottle filled with urine.
    If that was not clear enough, the words "**** Hamas" had been carved into a concrete wall in the staircase. "Burn Gaza down" and "Good Arab = dead Arab" were engraved on a coffee table. The star of David was drawn in blue in a bedroom."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/palestinians-return-home-israeli-troops-faeces-graffiti?CMP=fb_gu

    And no, this is not the first time its happened
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/015/2009/en/8f299083-9a74-4853-860f-0563725e633a/mde150152009en.pdf

    A so called army from a so called democracy, ****eing like savages in a civilians empty house,

    Sums them up really


  • #3613
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Thats upsetting to read.

    And that's only a snippet of the horrors inflicted by the mighty IDF. As of this morning, total causalities are as follows...

    From Palestinian Center for Human Rights.

    Total casualty figures from 07:00am today

    http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10491:statistics-victims-of-the-israeli-offensive-on-gaza-since-08-july-2014&catid=145:in-focus%E2%80%9D#

    Total dead = 1976 (100%)

    Total Civilians Killed = 1643 or 83.1% of total deaths.

    Total Children Killed = 463 or 23.4% of total deaths.

    Total Women Killed = 249 or 12.6% of total deaths.



    Total wounded = 7920 (100%)

    Total Children Wounded = 2111 or 26.6% of total wounded.

    Total Women Wounded = 1415 or 17.8% of total wounded.

    * Note: The human Rights site lists all of the wounded as being mostly civilians.

    http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3027&Itemid=182
    About PCHR

    The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) is a Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) based in Gaza City. The Centre is a non-profit company, dedicated to protecting human rights, promoting the rule of law and upholding democratic principles in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). It holds Special Consultative Status with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) of the United Nations. It is an affiliate of the International Commission of Jurists-Geneva, the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) – Paris, the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Network - Copenhagen, the International Legal Assistance Consortium (ILAC) – Stockholm, the World Coalition against the Death Penalty, and the Arab Organization for Human Rights – Cairo. PCHR is a recipient of the 1996 French Republic Award on Human Rights, the 2002 Bruno Kreisky Award for Outstanding Achievements in the Area of Human Rights, the 2003 International Services Human Rights Award (UNAIS) and the 2009 Human Rights Prize of Andalucia. The Centre was established in 1995 by a group of Palestinian lawyers and human rights activists in order to:

    · Protect human rights and promote the rule of law in accordance with international standards.
    · Create and develop democratic institutions and an active civil society, while promoting democratic culture within the Palestinian society.
    · Support all the efforts aimed at enabling the Palestinian people to exercise its inalienable rights in regard to self-determination and independence in accordance with international Law and UN resolutions.

    The work of the Centre is conducted through documentation and investigation of human rights violations, provision of legal aid and counseling for both individuals and groups, and preparation of research articles relevant to such issues as the human rights situation and the rule of law. The Centre also provides comments on Palestinian Draft Laws and urges the adoption of legislation that incorporates international human rights standards and basic democratic principles. To achieve its goals, the Centre has recruited a committed staff of well-known human rights lawyers and activists........


  • #3614
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    tayto lover wrote: »
    War Crimes indeed but will anyone pay?
    This is a shocking indictment of the Israeli regime and the complete disrespect for the lives of children in Palestine --

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10984259/Revealed-the-Palestinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html
    RustyNut wrote: »
    Thats upsetting to read.

    This is even more upsetting, but be warned before you view the YouTube video. It shows in serious graphic detail, a child casualty of an Israeli airstrike and half the childs head is gone. The boys father is distraught, screaming wake up, wake up, I bought you toys. Again you will not be able to unsee this, so you have been warned.

    @ Mods: If you think this video is too graphic then please delete it. I posted it as it shows the results of the indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas of Gaza and this should not be brushed under the carpet.

    Israel caused this and the US support, fund and arm them while most of the rest of the world leaders sit idly by and do nothing. And then the Israeli's indulge in victim blaming and are looking for the US to help them avoid war crimes charges.

    Article, without graphic content

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/wake-my-son-none-gazas-murdered-children-are-just-numbers

    YouTube video (See warning above before watching. Remember, you won't be able to unsee this.)

    <mod snip>

    My heart is broken for this poor father and the rest of his family.


  • #3615
    The Th!ng
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Th!ng


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Thats upsetting to read.

    It gets worse:
    Official statistics from the Ministry of Information in Ramallah have revealed that 1,518 Palestinian children were killed by Israel's occupation forces from the outbreak of the second Intifada in September 2000 up to April 2013. That's the equivalent of one Palestinian child killed by Israel every 3 days for almost 13 years. The ministry added that the number of children injured by the Israelis since the start of the Second Intifada against Israel's occupation has now reached 6,000. "The International Day for the Protection of Children is on June 1," said a spokesman, "but Palestinian children are still subject to attacks by the Israelis and Jewish settlers on an almost daily basis."
    Noting that 2012 saw an unprecedented rise in the number of children arrested by Israeli forces, the report pointed out that 9,000 Palestinians under 18 years old have been arrested since the end of September 2000. Almost half of the Palestinian population is under 18. Almost two hundred and fifty Palestinian minors are being held in prison by Israel; 47 of them are children under 16 years of age.
    The more I read, the more incredulous I become at how the Israeli government has been able to get away with this.


  • #3616
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    The Th!ng wrote: »
    The more I read, the more incredulous I become at how the Israeli government has been able to get away with this.

    Friends in high places blocking any attempt to hold them accountable.


  • #3617
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    The Th!ng wrote: »
    It gets worse:

    The more I read, the more incredulous I become at how the Israeli government has been able to get away with this.

    I just gave my daughter the biggest hug ever and am so thankful not to be going to bed in Palestine tonight.


  • #3618
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    So, is this going to start up again tomorrow? Negotiations don't seem to be going well.


  • #3619
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    WakeUp wrote: »
    "The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.
    Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz is prepared to make a personal appearance in court to defend the practice, ministry officials added.

    Human rights groups have frequently condemned the use of human shields.

    The Israeli military believes that the use of Palestinian civilians can often defuse a tense situation."

    that's disturbing. the brave IDF alright.

    WTF?? Am I reading this right? All we have heard the last few weeks is Hamas using civilians as human shields, to in some way justify Israels killing of innocent people, and now we have the same people (Israel) appealing against the banning of using civilians as human shields?? I dont no whether to laugh or cry!!!


  • #3620
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    WTF?? Am I reading this right? All we have heard the last few weeks is Hamas using civilians as human shields, to in some way justify Israels killing of innocent people, and now we have the same people (Israel) appealing against the banning of using civilians as human shields?? I dont no whether to laugh or cry!!!

    I know what a few will do..

    HAMAS USE HUMAN SHIELDS lalalalalalalalallaalalalalalalala I'm not listening to anything bad truthful being said against the zionist murder machine.


  • #3621
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    user2011 wrote: »
    I know what a few will do..

    HAMAS USE HUMAN SHIELDS lalalalalalalalallaalalalalalalala I'm not listening to anything bad truthful being said against the zionist murder machine.

    Israelis would never use dirty tricks lads.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0218/127737-dubai/


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  • #3622
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    WTF?? Am I reading this right? All we have heard the last few weeks is Hamas using civilians as human shields, to in some way justify Israels killing of innocent people, and now we have the same people (Israel) appealing against the banning of using civilians as human shields?? I dont no whether to laugh or cry!!!

    Don't let the fact that this story is 9 years old dampen your outrage.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • #3623
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fiery mutant wrote: »
    Don't let the fact that this story is 9 years old dampen your outrage.


    The fact that hes never heard of it, yet never hears anything else about the Palestinians, is probably getting to him.


  • #3624
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Fiery mutant wrote: »
    Don't let the fact that this story is 9 years old dampen your outrage.

    The stories in the bible are thousands of year old..


  • #3625
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Nodin wrote: »
    The fact that hes never heard of it, yet never hears anything else about the Palestinians, is probably getting to him.

    Exactly. The Israeli's have some neck to blame Hamas for doing this yet they do it themselves, outrageous stuff altogether, why arent they tackled on this issue in the media??


  • #3626
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Exactly. The Israeli's have some neck to blame Hamas for doing this yet they do it themselves, outrageous stuff altogether, why arent they tackled on this issue in the media??


    He who shouts the loudest. The impression one would have is that to be a Palestinian is to be a part of a criminal enterprise, while the state of Israel is like a Western European democracy, which is in stark and harsh contrast to the truth.


  • #3627
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Mrs Israeli Ambassador strikes again. I'd wait for another source, but having seen their rants on the Israeli Embassy facebook page, I'd say its probably genuine.

    https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.482731835105668.104998.126266120752243/751693801542802/?type=1&theater


  • #3628
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Nodin wrote: »
    Mrs Israeli Ambassador strikes again. I'd wait for another source, but having seen their rants on the Israeli Embassy facebook page, I'd say its probably genuine.

    https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.482731835105668.104998.126266120752243/751693801542802/?type=1&theater

    What an idiot. Maybe if she took her head out of her hole she would realise we were protesting about the mass murder her country was inflicting on a defenceless population in Gaza.


  • #3629
    HazDanz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭HazDanz


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    What an idiot. Maybe if she took her head out of her hole she would realise we were protesting about the mass murder her country was inflicting on a defenceless population in Gaza.

    Nah that's too logical and truthful.


  • #3630
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    What an idiot. Maybe if she took her head out of her hole she would realise we were protesting about the mass murder her country was inflicting on a defenceless population in Gaza.


    That would involve the admission that the expansionist project and Israeli supremacist ideology is wrong. Two chances.

    On a more general note, Likud are essentially a bunch of almost far-right yahoos. As I said here once, I could almost start a thread a day on some bizarre crap one of them has come out with (and I can't read/speak Hebrew, so I've limited sources). She's far from unique, unfortunately.


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  • #3631
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Nodin wrote: »
    Mrs Israeli Ambassador strikes again. I'd wait for another source, but having seen their rants on the Israeli Embassy facebook page, I'd say its probably genuine.

    https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.482731835105668.104998.126266120752243/751693801542802/?type=1&theater

    Its kind of strange her view as well as the activity of the twitter and facebook accounts linked with the embassy. They don't seem to be too in tune with Ireland or interested in much in the way of promoting ties.


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