Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

namloc1980 · 06-08-2014 06:45PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

There are 6 million Jews in Israel today and they are not going anywhere. Palestinians don't want them there? Tough. They are going to have to deal with it and stop firing rockets.

Nonsense. There are 700k illegal settlers who are Israeli government backed on Palestinian occupied territories. Is Israel not big enough for them?

end of the road · 06-08-2014 06:47PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

He is willfully ignorant of facts.

I have posted videos showing Israelis calling off attacks in order to spare civilians.

I have posted videos showing Hamas firing rockets from civilians areas.

I have posted videos of Hamas spokespersons admitting their strategy of using their own people as human shields.

I have posted an article in which the UN admits its facilities were used to store rockets.

You willfully refuse to take on board this obvious evidence.

Mosab Hassan Yousef in his own words describes the genocidal goals of Hamas - their aim to kill all the Jews, destroy Israel and establish a global caliphate.

Faced with this overwhelming evidence and knowing what Ireland would do if it faced the same threat you cannot with a straight face condemn Israel.

i can, i have, and i will, the israely government are fundamentalist extremists

hju6 · 06-08-2014 06:47PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

Wow, I didn't know that :pac::pac::pac::pac:

So that's why all the little children and babies were murdered, I understand now

wes · 06-08-2014 06:51PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

Including the Christian Palestinians, the various left wing Palestinian groups, the secular nationalist Fatah and so on?

Oh wait of course not, you just spewing the same old nonsense you come out with all the time.

Tuisceanch · 06-08-2014 06:51PM

Remember before you take it upon yourself to speak for all Jewish sentiment on the issue of Palestine that you do not represent all Jewish opinion on the matter.

Jewish Voice for Peace
https://www.facebook.com/JewishVoiceforPeace?fref=nf

Breaking the Silence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Silence_%28non-governmental_organization%29

http://www.btselem.org/

http://jewishpeaceactivists.blogspot.ie/

Anti-War demonstrations in Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQ1x6JYE3k

Gaza war gives rise to new Jewish group targeting Jewish institutions that support occupation

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/targeting-institutions-occupation.html

bumper234 · 06-08-2014 06:53PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I honestly don't believe, that any Israeli, will be put on trial for war crimes.
There may be some investigations, but those will be internal, and no fault or wrongdoing will be found.

The international community will eventually just concentrate on the peace negotiations going forward, and that will be that.

I bet that's what people thought about the German guards from concentration camps. Israel still hunts them down almost 70 years later, maybe in 70 years time they will get a taste of their own medicine when we hear of Israeli pensioners on trial for war crimes committed this summer.

Dan_Solo · 06-08-2014 06:57PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I honestly don't believe, that any Israeli, will be put on trial for war crimes.

I honestly don't either, but that's not really connected to whether Israel deliberately bombs babies in their sleep in UN buildings is it. It's to do with their refusal to join the ICC and the US veto of anything close to UN action.

Capt'n Midnight · 06-08-2014 06:57PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

Ever read the bits in the bible describing how the Jews slaughtered the people who were already living in the land God promised them.

Read it some time , lots of examples of the Jews backstabbing people who trusted them. Genocide.

Excellent synopsis here
http://www.thebricktestament.com/joshua/index.html#12000_massacred_at_ai

bumper234 · 06-08-2014 06:57PM

porsche959 wrote: »

Should the US also stop funding Hamas, just so as we're nice and consistent, yes?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/why-should-americans-fund-hamas-1401913021

I noticed you conveniently skipped over all.evidence of Israel using Palestinian kids as human shields yet again. Any chance you might reply to.those damning accusations anytime soon?

bumper234 · 06-08-2014 07:00PM

porsche959 wrote: »

Who's to.say i didn't? This thread is about the murder of children in Gaza not any of the above.

end of the road · 06-08-2014 07:01PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

There are 6 million Jews in Israel today and they are not going anywhere. Palestinians don't want them there? Tough. They are going to have to deal with it and stop firing rockets.

no they aren't, and they will not stop firing rockets until their land is given back and israel goes back to pre 1967 borders, and the IDF stop slaughtering and raping, they will keep fighting and there is nothing israel can do, they will never beat them, they will come to the table eventually.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Arabs rejected the establishment of Israel and attacked it from all sides.

when the new state started clenzeing the people

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The 1967 borders of Israel were the ceasefire line.

no, the pre 1967 borders were, they are the only legitimate borders.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Today Israel exists and millions of Jews live there now so there is no chance of the Arabs returning.

there is, they will, only so long before america loses patients with israel.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

There is no realistic chance of there being any settlement if Arab think they can destroy Israel and push out all the Jews.

and israel think they can slaughter and clenze the people of gaza and the west bank

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The two state solution is two states based on the 1967 borders.

pre 1967 borders.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

yeah, because its the only religious book with nonsense in it

bumper234 · 06-08-2014 07:03PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Do you not think there is a point in that statement though?? You call out others on their whataboutery but you cant accept some obvious hypocrisy when it's placed right in front of you??

Says the poster who claimed Israel were blowing up "terror tunnels" leading into Israel until it was pointed out that the tunnels actually led into Egypt. You lost any credibility when you made that rookie mistake :rolleyes:

Manic Moran · 06-08-2014 07:06PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

In this video he talks about among other things:

the myth of the 1947 - 1948 war;

the myth of the 1967 war;

I don't have that much time to kill, but what's the cliff's notes version of those two points?

end of the road · 06-08-2014 07:09PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Israel still hunts them down almost 70 years later

strange isn't it, a country which didn't exist when these crimes were commited hunting down those responsible, what Jurisdiction do they have apart from playing world police when it suits their agenda, surely the international court exists to deal with these people rather then allowing a hypocritical terrorist state to do so?

Tuisceanch · 06-08-2014 07:14PM

A Palestinian reporter in Gaza who feels a little upset and emotional that she had to witness the horror about her. She obviously was not aware of the strong justification for these unfortunate actions based on the Israeli's right to self defense.If she had known I'm sure she would have wiped away her tears.If only she knew about this thread.!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mK-d9wXFco

Unfortunately there is a heavy price to pay for being the wrong type of journalist.

http://tinyurl.com/mlbdxbs

It's a pity Israeli journalists are not allowed in by the IDF to report. I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason. Maybe somebody could shed some light.

Azwaldo55 · 06-08-2014 07:15PM

end of the road wrote: »

no evidence exists of schools mosques hospitals and residential areas being used to hide rockets, and suggesting the UN are complicit in it? you'l have evidence to back it up yes? no you don't, because its nonsense so you won't have any.

This video shows Hamas firing from a Gazan school

This video shows Hamas firing rockets from civilians areas.

This video show the IDF hitting a mosque used to store weapons

This shows Hamas firing rockets next to UN building in Gaza.

I rest my case.

and they are doing a **** job of it, but are very good at hitting civilians even though they have supposibly modern weapons with guided capability.

Hamas is using civilians as human shields to protect their rocket launching sites.

how lovely of them, i bet only a few are actually dropped

Wrong. They dropped thousands upon thousands.

and the text messages don't happen at all, strangely though, the people have no where to go because when they go to a place of supposed safety israel bomb it.

Hamas fire rockets from right next to UN sites forcing the IDF to bomb the launchers to save the lives of their own citizens and in the process kill Palestinian human shields.

and thats wrong, but they are caught by the iron dome, and when people are backed in to a corner and treated like animals, its not surprising they fight back.

The rockets have killed several Israelis. You think that is acceptable? You think it is acceptable for Hamas terrorists who openly and explicitly want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews to fire rockets at innocent Israeli men women and children and to use their own people as human shields?

Get a clue!

i'm biased against nobody

You clearly are. I have just refuted you point for point. You haven't a notion what you are talking about.

i just don't like people no matter who they are commiting crimes against humanity

Hamas are committing the crimes against humanity. They are committing a double war crime by firing rockets at innocent Israeli civilians and then shielding those rocket launchers with the innocent Palestinian civilians.

and deliberately murdering civilians, isis, israel, all the same, just extremists from a different religion.

You clearly know nothing about Israel and its democracy and its free open society. The majority of Israelis are secular Jews. You didn't know what did you? You are utterly clueless.

Why are you protesting against a democratic country protecting itself from Islamic nutjobs who are ideologically the same as ISIS and Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda and the Taliban?

Wake up!

HazDanz · 06-08-2014 07:21PM

hju6 wrote: »

Wow, I didn't know that :pac::pac::pac::pac:

So that's why all the little children and babies were murdered, I understand now

Israel have done this before to great effect. It was one of their main tactics to make Palestinian Arabs run for their lives when they started occupying Palestine in 1948.

Dayr Yasin. Quite Palestinian Arab village - loads of woman and children slaughtered. Suprise suprise as well it wasn't a land area which the UN allowed for them to occupy.

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

seamus · 06-08-2014 07:22PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

All of them? Without exception?

Can you not see how such a brainwashed belief in the Palestinian bogeyman who'll kill you in your bed is exactly the same kind of nonsense fearmongering that the US used when it was fighting communism, or that Al-Queda used to justify the World Trade Centre attacks?

Your attitude is extremist. The exact same kind of extremism that flies planes in buildings, that causes young african women to be burnt alive for witchcraft and that results in a young man firing a rocket into Israel.

When the IDF look into Gaza, they think they're looking at an enemy, but they're actually looking into a mirror. Two extremists, each no better than the other, guilty for the murder and suffering of all of the innocents around them.

Dan_Solo · 06-08-2014 07:25PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Why are you protesting against a democratic country protecting itself from Islamic nutjobs who are ideologically the same as ISIS and Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda and the Taliban?

Wake up!

LOL, yeah, all the same those Muslim types aren't they?
You're not a Hamas fifth columnist are you? Your blatant racism and religious intolerance is better PR for them than any of those photogenic babies they round up and handcuff to rocket launchers to be killed.

dav3 · 06-08-2014 07:27PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

I rest my case.

Rest your case? All you've posted are IDF propaganda pieces and one France24 video that confirms that Hamas fire rockets from urban areas, which we've already discussed and agreed on.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that.

Tuisceanch · 06-08-2014 07:28PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don't have that much time to kill, but what's the cliff's notes version of those two points?

I'm afraid the best I can do at the moment is post the video again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

and state that he talks about 1948 beginning around 8 minutes in
and then talks about 1967 at around about 13 minutes. His father was a general in 1967 (sorry for maybe pointing out something you were already aware of). This is a personal account and he makes that clear.

For other posters interested in knowing more about Miko Peled then I refer you to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko_Peled as a starting point.

I hope that helps.

Wibbs · 06-08-2014 07:41PM

It's quite amazing to me how quickly some posters can rattle up links supporting their claims. Almost like they're prepared in advance...

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

So if this is a plantation and a genocide the Israelis must be worst at it in the world.

One could easily argue they're among the best at it in the world. As I said compare the maps over the last 60 years. Hell compare the maps from 1967 onward. Who is concentrating whom into ever smaller enclaves year by year? Who is blockading said enclaves of food and construction supplies among other "banned" goods?

The Palestinians are ranked as 8th in the world for obesity.

Yet according to a survey done by the Danish government 1 in 3 children were anaemic in 2010 and 1 in 10 were undernourished. And I'd love to see you try pulling the antisemite deflection on the Danes.

THOUSANDS of rockets have been fired at Israel by Hamas from civilian areas of Gaza.

Not all the rockets can be stopped and civilians have been killed while hundreds of thousands of Israelis are forced to run for cover in concrete bunkers.

How many have died? Simple question requiring a simple answer. In this latest push how many Israeli civilians have died? On the sordid scorecard of fatalities Israelis barely register by comparison.

You obviously haven't clue what you are talking about.

You are clearly hopelessly biased against Israel.

Clearly I struck a nerve so you pull the low level anti Israel jibe. No doubt to be followed by the anti semite card if we wait long enough. You guys are so obvious.

porsche959 wrote: »

The reality is that many modern democratic nations, including Ireland, France, the US, etc, were founded in violence. Interesting that some only single out Israel in this regard. Wonder why that is, hmmm.

Ehhh plenty of people, Americans included will quite easily cry shame about how the invasion and settlement of America decimated the local populations. They'll also feel bloody guilty about the many horrors perpetrated on the natives. France, how was France founded in violence? Sure they had a couple of invasions by foreign forces going way back, but they forced them out. Hardly comparable to Israel. Ireland? Yep, the locals forced out a foreign plantation force by point of arms. That's more the Palestinian model than the Israeli.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

The Israelis are inspired by their own deities text and that goes for the secular too, even if they don't believe the religious aspect. The fervent buy it wholesale. Israel itself is a biblically inspired notion. It didn't exist as a nation after a bunch of Italians leveled the place in the first century. Restarting it was akin to restarting Gaul. It came back into fashion in the late 19th century where such romantic ideals of nationhood and ancestry kicked off around the world. Including here, the celtic revival stuff was big. Islam? I have little or no time for Islam. IMHO it's the "worst" of the Abrahamic faiths on a fair few levels and I would find Judaic theology and especially learning far more appealing, but as far as feeling they're backed by their god there's feck all between them.

Joke is I was traditionally much more pro Israeli, even when the PLO were more the ones to like back in the 70's. Came from growing up with Jewish mates as a kid I suppose was one reason and having rellies who saw the aftermath of Nazi concentration camps first hand. Hell I signed up for a trip to a kibbutz in the early 80's(sadly missed out cos of illness). These days I really struggle to come to terms with my gut feelings of the place and the reality on the ground.

hju6 · 06-08-2014 07:43PM

You clearly know nothing about Israel and its democracy and its free open society. The majority of Israelis are secular Jews. You didn't know what did you? You are utterly clueless.

What about Ethiopian Jews in Israel, are they treated fairly ?

wes · 06-08-2014 07:45PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

I rest my case.

All but 1 of your video's is from the IDF, so there no credible sources.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas is using civilians as human shields to protect their rocket launching sites.

No where in the only credible video from France 24 did they state that, they did however point out that Palestinian militants (the video didn't id them as Hamas, that was the person who uploaded who did so via there title) was firing from a urban area, which is of appalling and a incredibly stupid thing to do.

However, we are being led to believe that Israel is engaged in a pinpoint operation, and we know that they have the latest in targeting technology, so I find it hard to believe there is any justification in leveling the entire area.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Wrong. They dropped thousands upon thousands.

Again the IDF posted that not a credible source.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas fire rockets from right next to UN sites forcing the IDF to bomb the launchers to save the lives of their own citizens and in the process kill Palestinian human shields.

The video showed no evidence of Human Shields being used to protect there rockets..... It however show a Palestinian militant group, who btw the video did not id as Hamas firing from a civilian area.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The rockets have killed several Israelis. You think that is acceptable?

3 Israeli civilians have been murdered. Hamas has largely killed IDF soldier however.

On the other hand there are over 1800 dead Palestinians, and I have seen current figures stating 84% were civilians.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You think it is acceptable for Hamas terrorists who openly and explicitly want to destroy Israel

No more acceptable that the Zionists destroying Palestine.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

and kill all the Jews to fire rockets at innocent Israeli men women and children and to use their own people as human shields?

0 evidence of Hamas using Human Shields, firstly.

Secondly, Netanyahu started this conflict, when he attacked Hamas, after falsely blaming them for the kidnap and murder of the 3 settler teenagers. Hamas didn't fire any rockets since the last war with Israeli, and was actively stopping others from doing so.

Regardless, indiscriminate rocket attacks are wrong, but the fact remains its the Israeli government who are the aggressor in this latest war.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Get a clue!

You clearly are. I have just refuted you point for point. You haven't a notion what you are talking about.

IDF video's are proof of nothing.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas are committing the crimes against humanity.

Yes, and the IDF are as well, albeit at a far greater rate.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

They are committing a double war crime by firing rockets at innocent Israeli civilians and then shielding those rocket launchers with the innocent Palestinian civilians.

No evidence of Human Shields being used by Hamas to shield rocket launchers. You do have one video of Palestinian militant groups firing from an urban area, but no proof it was Hamas and I say no where in the video, where Palestinians were being forced to act as Human Shields.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You clearly know nothing about Israel and its democracy and its free open society. The majority of Israelis are secular Jews. You didn't know what did
you? You are utterly clueless.

The occupation and colonial settler project in East Jerusalem and the West Bank proves you wrong. I fail to see Israelis being secular or not is relevant to the existence of the occupation and colonial settler project.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Why are you protesting against a democratic country protecting itself from Islamic nutjobs who are ideologically the same as ISIS and Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda and the Taliban?

Wake up!

The thread title reads:
Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

It make perfect sense for people to post about the actual topic......

end of the road · 06-08-2014 07:51PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

I rest my case.

you never had, don't have, and never will have a case

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas is using civilians as human shields to protect their rocket launching sites.

now stop this nonsense, it has been proven to be lies, you can keep peddling it, but i will never buy it, and nobody else will.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Wrong.

no, right

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

They dropped thousands upon thousands.

they didn't

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas fire rockets from right next to UN sites

they don't

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

forcing the IDF to bomb the launchers to save the lives of their own citizens and in the process kill Palestinian human shields.

not forcing the IDF to do anything, they chose to bomb civilian areas deliberately to clenze the people so they can take the land, they have been doing it since their foundation, no human shields, just people with no where to go.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The rockets have killed several Israelis. You think that is acceptable? You think it is acceptable for Hamas terrorists who openly and explicitly want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews to fire rockets at innocent Israeli men women and children and to use their own people as human shields?

israely bombs have killed thousands and thousands of palestinians, You think that is acceptable? You think it is acceptable for IDF terrorists who openly and explicitly want to destroy the palestinian territories and kill all the people, to fire rockets at innocent palestinian men women and children and to use children as human shields?

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You clearly are.

i'm clearly not.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

I have just refuted you point for point.

you haven't

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You haven't a notion what you are talking about.

i do. the fact is you are a hypocritical fundamentalist who just cannot except that a country with a supposed western outlook is no better then some of the countries around it.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas are committing the crimes against humanity.

israel is also, difference is unlike hamas, they don't get criticised by countries who have the power to do so.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

They are committing a double war crime by firing rockets at innocent Israeli civilians and then shielding those rocket launchers with the innocent Palestinian civilians.

but they aren't shielding rockets, as the people have no where to go

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You clearly know nothing about Israel and its democracy and its free open society.

well, it doesn't exactly have a full democracy now does it, and as for a free open society, thats very questionable also

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The majority of Israelis are secular Jews.

i'm sure many are, i'm also sure many condemn their government and militarys actions, sadly their voices aren't being heard.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Why are you protesting against a democratic country protecting itself from Islamic nutjobs who are ideologically the same as ISIS and Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda and the Taliban?

because the israely government and military are extremist nutjobs who are ideologically the same as ISIS and Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, but of a different religion, who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity with impunity and support from countries like america who preach to other countries about such actions.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Wake up!

oh i have

Son Of A Vidic · 06-08-2014 07:52PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The Palestinians are inspired by the Koran and the Hadiths which command them to kill Jews and infidels and conquer the earth for Islam.

Judging by the level of complete ignorance there, I think it's safe to say you don't know any Palestinians. I know a few and I met them mainly through work. Some were Muslims, other were Christians. My closest friend though was probably Khaled, he was a Muslim doctor and here's the part that might shock you. He would create any excuse for a piss up and was a fanatical Man United fan. He was mental craic altogether.

My name is URL · 06-08-2014 07:54PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You clearly know nothing about Israel and its democracy and its free open society.

A free open society that pays brain-dead foreign Jews (and jews only) to occupy illegal settlements while it bulldozes the homes and livelihoods of Palestinians.

A despicable apartheid state is what it is, made worse by the fact that world leaders support it. Hiding the fact behind a shroud of 'democracy' doesn't change the fact. Hitler rose to power in a democratic state.. that doesn't negate the actions or policies of those in power.

bumper234 · 06-08-2014 07:55PM

Still waiting for the pro Israeli crowd to comment on the evidence that the IDF have used Palestinian children as human shields even as they continue to claim without evidence that Hama's do this.

Pwindedd · 06-08-2014 07:59PM

If the bombing stops now - what next? does this disappear into the settling dust and then in another 10-15 years we look at more maps where Palestinians are herded into even less land and have even more of their liberties restricted. It's the daily oppression that I actually find the most intolerable. The casualties are obviously appalling - no denying that - but if one country is restricting another countries food imports and their daily autonomy - how is that justifiable. By anyone. How are these the actions of a nation that wants peace. I can see no other motive other than that of illegal land and natural resource "acquisition". Or theft as we know it here. If we leave the war discussions aside for a second does anyone want to explain to me how the actions of the Israeli authorities over the past 50 years are indicative of the search for peace?

tayto lover · 06-08-2014 08:02PM

The campaign is growing in momentum ---

ww.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/belfast-demonstrators-remove-israeli-goods-from-shelves-of-sainsburys-in-protest-over-g

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August