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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #3272
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    porsche959 wrote: »
    So an entire political philosophy is nuts. Well, that's not debating, really, is it, it's just excluding philosophies you don't happen to agree with (I do not consider myself a neo-con, for the record).


    Have you missed the last decade? Have you not seen what neo-cons have done to the geo-political map? Have you missed all the invented wars?


  • #3273
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Anti-Semitic double standards: the arts and the Jews

    0 comments 6 August 2014 15:35 Nick Cohen


    0311834035.jpg“Would you force anyone else to behave like this?” the promoters of the UK Jewish Film Festival asked the artistic director of London’s Tricycle Theatre.



    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2014/08/the-double-standards-of-artistic-anti-semitism/


  • #3274
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    NotASheeple wrote: »
    Have you missed the last decade? Have you not seen what neo-cons have done to the geo-political map? Have you missed all the invented wars?

    Did you miss when terrorists murdered 3000 civilians in one day in 2001?


  • #3275
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,609 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    porsche959 wrote: »
    No, I don't. It certainly exists. Some of the extremists on the fringes of the neo-cons are nutty.

    Well that's it, extremists exist on every side. There's not much sense in using that fact to diminish the arguments of those who are moderate in their views.

    I mean, one could argue that such tendencies exist not only in lunatic fringes but also in the mainstream political spheres in both Israel and Palestine

    It's not long since Israel was chemically sterilizing women without their consent
    Israel has admitted for the first time that it has been giving Ethiopian Jewish immigrants birth-control injections, often without their knowledge or consent.

    One of the Ethiopian women who was interviewed is quoted as saying: “They [medical staff] told us they are inoculations. We took it every three months. We said we didn’t want to.” It is alleged that some of the women were forced or coerced to take the drug while in transit camps in Ethiopia.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

    That happened as a matter of policy, not just because a few lunatics decided to do it.

    How anyone can defend Israel / Jews and their religiously motivated lunacy, while at the same time decrying Muslims for the same thing is beyond me.


  • #3276
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Many do, including people who have posted in this very thread, Dan Solo for example.
    You seem to have forgotten to quote where I said that.
    Here's your chance.


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  • #3277
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Did you miss when terrorists murdered 3000 civilians in one day in 2001?

    No. So you're justifying and validating neo-con war mongering?

    Terrorists have killed and wounded 11,000 people in Gaza. Did you miss that?


  • #3278
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    porsche959 wrote: »
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2014/08/the-double-standards-of-artistic-anti-semitism/

    That is Nick Cohen's opinion, but if you take money from the Israeli government, then your a valid target for boycott, as the boycott is based on getting money from the Israeli government and not for the festival being Jewish.

    As for the pro-claimed double standard, well one need look no further than the lack of sanctions being put on Israel, over expanding outside there borders, meanwhile Russia is rightly on the receiving end of them. When, governments refuse to act, then people will take things into there own hands.

    Any chance of answering my question from earlier......


  • #3279
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Did you miss when terrorists murdered 3000 civilians in one day in 2001?

    How many other deaths per civilian death in 2001 will it take until enough is enough?

    All being equal some peoples lives seem less equal than others in this world!


  • #3280
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Did you miss when terrorists murdered 3000 civilians in one day in 2001?

    Did you miss the Neo-con PNAC document, that called for invading Iraq, long before 9/11...... The Neo-con's were nutty long before 9/11.


  • #3281
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Do you deny that Jew hate exists in the pro-Gaza movement?

    Bob hates Jews. Bob is a supporter of Palestine. Therefore all supporters of Palestine hate Jews.

    Garfield is a cat. Garfield loves to eat Lasagna. Therefore anyone who loves to eat lasagna is a cat.

    Am I doing this right?


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  • #3282
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Agreed that's exactly my point.



    Many do, including people who have posted in this very thread, Dan Solo for example.



    That is the view of a few Jewish intellectuals, e.g. Chomsky. Many hold a different view.

    Well if we are to disregard the opinions of people who have invested enormous time and effort with no obvious political agenda out of the equation we are still left with the facts on the ground for which there is ample documentation and witness testimony. There is also the evidence of the recent peace negotiations which were leaked because of American's fury at Israel's intransigence despite being offered everything they had requested. It seems abundantly clear that Israel has the means to effect a peaceful solution which doesn't even offer the Palestinians very much in return and they still insistent on conducting a barbaric attack on the people of Gaza and lest we forget the crackdown that they implemented in the West Bank prior to that attack and which continues unabated as we speak. Is this just to be ignored whilst the focus of the argument is that Hamas is an unpleasant organization and if you support the rights of Palestinians then you automatically support terrorism. The Israeli Government's policies are equally repugnant but neither,in the absence of overt aggression,constitutes the necessity for barbarity.


  • #3283
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Bob hates Jews. Bob is a supporter of Palestine. Therefore all supporters of Palestine hate Jews.

    Garfield is a cat. Garfield loves to eat Lasagna. Therefore anyone who loves to eat lasagna is a cat.

    Am I doing this right?
    All wrong I'm afraid.
    Bob hates Jews. Therefore Hamas use human shields but the IDF don't.
    See?


  • #3284
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    http://www.btselem.org/ is now available outside of Israel.


  • #3285
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    All wrong I'm afraid.
    Bob hates Jews. Therefore Hamas use human shields but the IDF don't.
    See?

    Therefore you are a cat? What's wrong with being called a cat.Sensible creatures from what I have experienced.


  • #3286
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    porsche959 wrote: »
    No, I don't. It certainly exists. Some of the extremists on the fringes of the neo-cons are nutty.

    It would appear that the extremists in Zionism are in control at the moment in Israel or do they all support the slaughter of innocent men women and children?


  • #3287
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    RustyNut wrote: »
    It would appear that the extremists in Zionism are in control at the moment in Israel or do they all support the slaughter of innocent men women and children?

    The reality is the majority of Israelis, including most of the left, support Netanyahu on security issues (though not on the economy).


  • #3288
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    porsche959 wrote: »
    The reality is the majority of Israelis, including most of the left, support Netanyahu on security issues (though not on the economy).


    Oh, you've conveniently jumped past 7 posts which challenged your spin. But it comes as no surprise.


  • #3289
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    porsche959 wrote: »
    The reality is the majority of Israelis, including most of the left, support Netanyahu on security issues (though not on the economy).

    And there is nothing like a war to divert attention away from the economy!


  • #3290
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    I do agree that there is a lopsided balance being expressed here, because it seems that most people who post here have found it difficult to find any justification for Israel's action despite the considerable effort they have expended in trying to understand why there are some who feel a self defense argument based on what seems to be a tissue of lies is the rationale for supposedly pin pointed attacks on Hamas militants which caused massive civilian casualties due to the presumed callousness of Hamas, who did not direct their people to seek safety in their state of the art shelters. However, this is an open forum, and so it is not the responsibility of others to entice people into these forums to articulate their counter arguments, and to provide those resources which have so far eluded us, that prove that we have being hood winked by a perfidious and vicious worldwide propaganda. We also can't insist that people continue to debate on the points raised just because they are difficult to refute.


  • #3291
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    porsche959 wrote: »
    The reality is the majority of Israelis, including most of the left, support Netanyahu on security issues (though not on the economy).

    Do they support this as part of the security issues

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7b2BNjnsg


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  • #3292
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    And there is nothing like a war to divert attention away from the economy!

    Or get it going

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVGg_5grOTg


  • #3293
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    I do agree that there is a lopsided balance being expressed here, because it seems that most people who post here have found it difficult to find any justification for Israel's action despite the considerable effort they have expended in trying to understand why there are some who feel a self defense argument based on what seems to be a tissue of lies is the rationale for supposedly pin pointed attacks on Hamas militants which caused massive civilian casualties due to the presumed callousness of Hamas, who did not direct their people to seek safety in their state of the art shelters. However this is an open forum and so it is not the responsibility of others to entice people into these forums to articulate their counter arguments and to provide those resources which have so far eluded us that prove that we have being hood winked by a perfidious and vicious worldwide propaganda. We also can't insist that people continue to debate on the points raised just because they are difficult to refute.
    Although the hit n run (or even register and run) nature of the average pro-Zionist/IDF poster doesn't do them any favours. Or being actually proud of the fact they haven't bothered to read any of the posts here before wading in with utterly uninformed opinion and then feeling victimised then they take a battering.


  • #3294
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Herb Powell wrote: »
    Or get it going

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVGg_5grOTg

    Surely "Economy is looking bad let's start another war (when you get drafted!)" would be more appropriate...


  • #3295
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    The Israeli propaganda machine is in full swing and is being caught out


    Hoax alert: Video showing “Hamas using children as human shields” is from Syria



    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/hoax-alert-video-showing-hamas-using-children-human-shields-syria


  • #3296
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Although the hit n run (or even register and run) nature of the average pro-Zionist/IDF poster doesn't do them any favours. Or being actually proud of the fact they haven't bothered to read any of the posts here before wading in with utterly uninformed opinion and then feeling victimised then they take a battering.

    If you mean me, I certainly am not going to debate with people who have no problem with links being put up as reference sources from the notorious Jew hate site "rense". I will continue to debate, time permitting, with posters I consider rational.


  • #3297
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Israel student union sets up “war room” to sell Gaza massacre on Facebook

    As the death toll from Israel’s savage bombardment of Gaza continues to climb, Israel has once again turned to students to sell the slaughter online.

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-student-union-sets-war-room-sell-gaza-massacre-facebook

    ;);)


  • #3298
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Jesus, Is this the level of argument now. Criticise Israel = you hate Jews and are anti Semitic. Feel sorry for palestinians killed = love terrorists, hate Jews and support Hamas, And are anti Semitic. does that mean if i don't agree with what the west is doing in the middle east I support ISIS ?


  • #3299
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    The main thing now is that the truce is holding. I feel confident that a solution, that suits both sides, is within reach.


  • #3300
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    hju6 wrote: »
    Israel student union sets up “war room” to sell Gaza massacre on Facebook

    As the death toll from Israel’s savage bombardment of Gaza continues to climb, Israel has once again turned to students to sell the slaughter online.

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-student-union-sets-war-room-sell-gaza-massacre-facebook

    ;);)


    Ya, that looks like a site you can trust


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  • #3301
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    porsche959 wrote: »
    If you mean me, I certainly am not going to debate with people who have no problem with links being put up as reference sources from the notorious Jew hate site "rense".

    I asked you to provide evidence of the above earlier? I also posted a reminder a few times as well.

    I have never heard of rense before today, and for the life of me, I can't understand why you haven't provide example of why this site is Anti-semetic.


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