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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #2042
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    So you deny that an elite doesn't exist which has great power in the financial and banking industries and powerful politically? Do the Rothchilds not mean anything to you?

    I support Israel, so this is not racism. Do you not want me to be truthful?

    CT forum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.


  • #2043
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,654 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    What makes you think I haven't? Part of my first tour was within the city of Mosul.

    Which army are you in? Just catching up here.


  • #2044
    ElChe32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭ElChe32


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So do we have 10 new pro-baby murder boards.ie user accounts yet for the morning shift lads?

    They're still in a team meeting, they'll be with us shortly.


  • #2045
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So do we have 10 new pro-baby murder boards.ie user accounts yet for the morning shift lads?

    question for the mods....

    do any of those pro-Israel boards users that post on this forum share the same IP address?

    or are you allowed to say?


  • #2046
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    Interesting article:

    adsagainstapartheid.com/israeli-extremist-tries-to-remove-palestinian-flag-gets-caught-on-barbed-wire-video

    Sad and ridiculously funny all at once.

    What would have happened if the International Observers were not there?
    Just reposting here. Seing as they're all in meetings.. Cant embed links yet, so need to add the http and the www bit yourselfs. Or just google it


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  • #2047
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    donegal__road wrote: »
    question for the mods....

    do any of those pro-Israel boards users that post on this forum share the same IP address?

    or are you allowed to say?

    Ways to get around IP addresses, Be more interesting if they have the same MAC address. I presume admin would have tools to check that info.


  • #2048
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,654 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The US and UN are clearly owned by Israel. They just spout propaganda in Israel's favour and our little "yes men" follow along wagging their tails. Here Charlie, good boy, have a biscuit. Good doggie.


  • #2049
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    donegal__road wrote: »
    do any of those pro-Israel boards users that post on this forum share the same IP address?

    Nah, they nicked some Irish ones to use :eek:


  • #2050
    mrsweebri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭mrsweebri


    I believe you are mistaken to assume pro Israel posters are either teenagers/American/paid/re-reg. There are sizeable minority of Israel supporters in Ireland. They keep quiet, understandably in the company of the majority. I believe it is a mistake to dismiss/ belittle/depersonalise people because of their views. In my opinion it would be more useful to calmly and politely highlight people's errors in their thinking, beliefs and especially statistics and try to engage.

    I understand his is difficult with such an emotive subject and especially with the events you are seeing. You are more likely to change their minds and it is harder to dismiss anti Israel people as being bigoted/racist/trolls. As an example, I hope he or she doesn't mind me calling him out, Nodin has made a difference to my own thinking on the matter. He challenges facts, not people and backs his claims up with statistics without ever my becoming personal.

    Demonstrations and boycotts are worthwhile but it is also worth trying to influence opinion on the ground, instead of pushing people further away. A thread like this is an ideal way of doing both.


  • #2051
    JamboMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    Wondering what story is true but Hamas claim they may have kidnapped the soldier but it was prior to the agreed ceasefire and they have lost contact with that group and believe the Israeli bombing has killed the Hamas soldiers and kidnapped Israeli soldier.


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  • #2052
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    JamboMac wrote: »
    Wondering what story is true but Hamas claim they may have kidnapped the soldier but it was prior to the agreed ceasefire and they have lost contact with that group and believe the Israeli bombing has killed the Hamas soldiers and kidnapped Israeli soldier.

    He wasn't kidnapped......he was a soldier in an invading army....he was captured.


  • #2053
    JamboMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    bumper234 wrote: »
    He wasn't kidnapped......he was a soldier in an invading army....he was captured.

    Kidnapped captured really makes no difference just a word.

    Quick question if anti-Semitic is hatred of Jews.

    What's the word for hatred of Muslims or does it exist.


  • #2054
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    JamboMac wrote: »
    they have lost contact with that group and believe the Israeli bombing has killed the Hamas soldiers and kidnapped Israeli soldier.

    No doubt the IDF were trying to invoke the Hannibal Directive by killing everyone including their own.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive


  • #2055
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Anyone going into any of the protests about the situation today?


  • #2056
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    dav3 wrote: »
    No doubt the IDF were trying to invoke the Hannibal Directive by killing everyone including their own.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEQshrACCEA


  • #2057
    JamboMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    By the way the definition kidnapped and captured by definition are identical so you can stop worrying about the use word.

    Kidnap is to capture somebody and hold for ransom.


  • #2058
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    JamboMac wrote: »
    By the way the definition kidnapped and captured by definition are identical so you can stop worrying about the use word.

    Kidnap is to capture somebody and hold for ransom.
    IDF use prisoners as bargaining chips too, so I guess kidnap covers them as well as Hamas.


  • #2059
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    JamboMac wrote: »
    What's the word for hatred of Muslims or does it exist.

    Islamophobia would be the word. However Palestinians while largely Muslim, also have a significant Christian minority, so hatred of them would fall under racism and seeing Palestinians are themselves Semites, descended from Jews who lived in Palestine for generations, who inter-married and changed there Religion after various invasion over time, the term Antisemitism could also apply to hatred of them.


  • #2060
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    JamboMac wrote: »
    By the way the definition kidnapped and captured by definition are identical so you can stop worrying about the use word.

    Kidnap is to capture somebody and hold for ransom.

    And capture is the same ?


  • #2061
    Fiolina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭Fiolina


    c_man wrote: »
    Anyone going into any of the protests about the situation today?

    Yes, I'm going. 2pm Garden of Remembrance.


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  • #2062
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Just in case anyone thinks things can't get too much worse for the people of Gaza, Oxfam has released a statement today that says water supplies there are "critically low" and
    Massive destruction of water and sewage systems and electricity supplies has reduced water supply to Gaza's entire population of 1.8 million people. Spills of raw sewage threaten to contaminate water sources and the threat of disease is rising. There are already reports of 30 cases of meningitis, as well as skin diseases among children and cases of gastroenteritis.

    Grim stuff indeed.


  • #2063
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I'm not familiar with any cease-fires during the Seoul and Pyongyang battles.

    Sorry, I was posing a hypothetical situation, and not an actual historical one. Should have been clearer.
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    In any case, why should the location make any difference? You're either shooting at someone, or you're not. You're laying mines, or you're not. Your undertaking engineering works, or you're not. Unless there is a geographic mention in the ceasefire agreement, one would not assume that different rules apply in it.

    Well, I would think operating deep in enemy territory, would make a difference. For example lets say Hamas had militants wandering around Sderot, I take it the IDF would fire, surely. So in the case of Rafah, which border Egypt and not Israel, the IDF operating there and breaking into a facility that hides a tunnel, could be seen as an aggressive act.
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    [Edit: As I read a bit more in detail]

    Frankly, I find it hard to believe that Hamas expected a truce where the Israelis would sit there and do nothing. The idea of 'no activities', for example, would include the Israelis not attempting to deactivate any booby traps it may have discovered, remove any mines, resupply with arms or food, etc, rotate troops in and out, what have you. It is expected that such activities will take place. The Israelis doubtless would assume that Hamas is doing exactly the same thing, laying mines, booby traps, resupplying with ammo, relocating personnel, and so on. The trick is that they're not shooting at each other while doing it. All to prepare for the great smorgasborg which will occur when the truce ends.

    I agree that both sides. would have the ability to resupply etc, but again the specific operation was against a tunnel, which entrances are inside buildings controlled by Hamas, and I doubt the ceasefire, would allow any operations from either side, that would allow lets say Hamas to enter a building controlled by the IDF in Gaza to remove IDF supplies for example. Surely the IDF would see this as an aggressive act, and by that same logic, Hamas would see the IDF entering one there buildings to destroy a supply tunnel from Egypt in a similar way.


  • #2064
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    Israel like Ancient Rome are the civilised side in this conflict. It is the terrorists Hamas who are the ones using barbaric tactics and trying to force Islam upon the Jewish people.
    Ah yes, we're back to the Pax Israelium. Rome won a lot of wars so they were the good guys, eh?
    Did you play the "what exactly is a terrorist?" game yet? Go on, give it a try.


  • #2065
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Are people here seriously still saying the IDF can blow up Hamas positions in Gaza and still be on ceasefire? Why not add "suicide bombing Tel Aviv" to the list of things which magically don't break the ceasefire too?


  • #2066
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Are people here seriously still saying the IDF can blow up Hamas positions in Gaza and still be on ceasefire? Why not add "suicide bombing Tel Aviv" to the list of things which magically don't break the ceasefire too?

    I expect someone will reply that blowing up Hamas positions counts as military targeting while suicide bombing in Tel Aviv counts as targeting of civilians.

    If one accepts that hypothesis, then the argument becomes "the ceasefire does not apply to valid military targets".

    If that is the argument, then it becomes a tacit acknowledgement from the Israel supporters that the IDF restricting itself only to military targets is an exceptional event.


  • #2067
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Just in case anyone thinks things can't get too much worse for the people of Gaza, Oxfam has released a statement today that says water supplies there are "critically low" and



    Grim stuff indeed.


    And thats why I think this is not a 'war against Hamas' its Genocide. Why else target water plant and power plants? Saying its war, and arguing about who broke ceasefires keeps us nicely focused on the 'war' distracting from the million or so dying of thirst/disease/starving. At least half of these are children.

    For shame Israel.
    For shame anyone who condones it.

    THAT is what I have against settlements and zionist policy.


  • #2068
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Just watched the Russell Brand - Sean Hannity spat (russell responded yeaterday)

    The behaviour by Sean looks like a good enough reason to boycott sky to me.


  • #2069
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    When I read of the cease fire yesterday it was stated as an "Unconditional" cease fire
    which I took to mean ALL military actions would cease for 72 hours. Israel on Thursday
    had a condition that in any cease fire they would continue to search for and destroy the
    tunnel network we hear about. Unconditional to me means that this condition is also gone.
    So IMHO when Israel continued, after the cease fire had come into effect, to search for
    tunnels, then they had engaged in military actions which broke the cease fire.


  • #2070
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    Just watched the Russell Brand - Sean Hannity spat (russell responded yeaterday)

    The behaviour by Sean looks like a good enough reason to boycott sky to me.

    Sky & Fox... that Hannity tit is on Fox.


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  • #2071
    JamboMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    hju6 wrote: »
    And capture is the same ?

    I stated that in a previous post so I don't know why your directing that at me.


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