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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #752
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    And that will wipe out all the Palestinians in Gaza?

    A single life lost is too much. It is a failure of humanity. The current situation is dreadful. But let's be realistic.

    It is genocide, albeit done in the same way that the American did to the Native Americans. Israel is a settler colonial state like the USA. Settler colonial states take there time with genocide, sure it took the American nearly 200 years until they wiped out most of the Native American nations. Israel is just over 60 years at there own settler colonial project.

    BTW, destroying the only power plant in Gaza, destroying the water infrastructure etc, are genocidal act, especially the destruction of the Palestinians of Gaza ability to get clean water. People will start to die within 3 days without clean water, so when people call this genocide, it is no exaggeration, just looking at the likely end result if this doesn't stop now.


  • #753
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,660 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    The US are usually condemned for doing the opposite - "interfering".

    I think you missed the whole point, people are asking the US to stop interfering ie to stop arming Israel and to stop using their veto when it comes to UN action on Israel crimes


  • #754
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    Highflyer13 wrote: »
    Hannity says 'Israel haven't gone far enough, they've showed to much restraint!'

    That is the absolute crap in the American media. Im ashamed that genocide cheerleader is of Irish descent.

    Well they have.

    Israel could wipe Gaza off the map tomorrow if they "really" wanted too.


  • #755
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Well they have.

    Israel could wipe Gaza off the map tomorrow if they "really" wanted too.

    That doesn't mean they've shown restraint.


  • #756
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,660 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Well they have.

    Israel could wipe Gaza off the map tomorrow if they "really" wanted too.

    You believe they should show less 'restraint'?


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  • #757
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Well they have.

    Israel could wipe Gaza off the map tomorrow if they "really" wanted too.

    No, they couldn't just drop a couple of nuclear weapons on them tomorrow, and walk away. They would be a pariah a single second afterwards, they would lose complete US and EU support, and would be put under crippling sanctions.

    Simply put they have to take things slowly, to avoid such a scenario.


  • #758
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Bolivia declares Israel a 'terrorist state'

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/30/bolivia-israel-terrorist-state/13384989/

    Bolivia also recently legalised child labour


  • #759
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Bolivia also recently legalised child labour

    And Israel imprisons Palestinian children without trial.


  • #760
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    It might not be systematic genocide but this conflict has shown genocidal tendencies.

    An awful lot of the 1.8 million population don't have access to adequate food or clean water, never mind sufficient shelter. The only power generator in Gaza has since been destroyed.

    1,400 people may have been killed thus far, but the systematic consequences of Israeli bombardment is of genocidal proportions.



    Would we be equally one-sided if we spoke about the ills of the Iraq War, or Russia's annexation of Crimea, the genocide in Rwanda, Kosovo or any other atrocity you can name? Similarly, there is no equivocation in this case.

    Re one sidedness, of course this subject is an emotive one but there are a lot of posters on here who will not entertain any comments that might be perceived as not anti-Israeli.
    Personally I see that people are upset and I don't weigh in for the sake of an arguement but some of the stuff being put forward particularly around the worldwide Israeli and American conspiracy stuff needs questioning.
    Similarily, One of the earlier posts by a moderator discussing civilian deaths in war zones earned the guy nothing but abuse and that after he goes to great lengths to say he is just discussing historical fact.


  • #761
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    The US are usually condemned for doing the opposite - "interfering".

    Oh, and the people of Kosovo might argue that the US stepped up to help them out when they were in trouble.

    Interfering - like sanctioning a country resulting in the deaths of half a million kids and claiming the price was worth it. then invading and destroying that country killing many more innocents based on trumped up lies. damn right they will be condemned for that sh1t . the Americans like spreading freedom when it suits them usually by dropping their all caring all humanitarian love bombs on a population showering them with compassion. those bombs don't kill they care .why can't the Americans spread some freedumb to the people of Gaza. it doesn't suit does it is the answer.


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  • #762
    BazPM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58 ✭✭BazPM


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Bolivia also recently legalised child labour

    Bit rich considering Israel has killed hundreds of children. Even playing football on an empty beach can get you killed


  • #763
    Leslie91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    wes wrote: »
    No, they couldn't just drop a couple of nuclear weapons on them tomorrow, and walk away. They would be a pariah a single second afterwards, they would lose complete US and EU support, and would be put under crippling sanctions.

    Simply put they have to take things slowly, to avoid such a scenario.

    Seems Israel can do anything and USA turns a blind eye. I'd love to know what % of educated Americans believe what is going on over there is just.


  • #764
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Well they have.

    Israel could wipe Gaza off the map tomorrow if they "really" wanted too.

    Sounds like you're advocating for Gaza to be "wiped off the map" by Israel.


  • #765
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Bolivia also recently legalised child labour

    And how does this influence the rightness or wrongness of their decision to blacklist Israel?

    What I think you're getting at is wrongness by association - but this, as I'm sure you're aware, is a logical fallacy.

    It would be equally absurd and irrelevant to post "Bolivia also recently increased tax rates".

    The point being, that as imperfect as Bolivia may be, that they made the right decision in this instance. More countries should follow suit, with the expulsion of Israeli ambassadors, to teach Israel a lesson that has hitherto been avoided thanks to the US veto at the UNSC.


  • #766
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Since this inanity keeps cropping up .."Israel has shown restraint..they could wipe out the place if they wanted to"?

    1. Is that based on your in depth knowledge of their military capabilities? or just unfounded speculation?

    2. Are you sure that the governing party of Israel is confident of maintaining public support for such an action or even internal political support.

    3. Wouldn't they have to change their future narrative thereby making the continued settlement of the West Bank more difficult.

    4. Do you think their foreign pay masters would welcome the serious demonstrations that would occur in their major cities?

    If you want to issue such statements perhaps you could provide some proper analysis of your considered opinion because else you risk sounding like a weirdo.


  • #767
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    Seems Israel can do anything and USA turns a blind eye. I'd love to know what % of educated Americans believe what is going on over there is just.

    This is true they can. if the Americans , champions of the people defenders of what's righteous, actually cared they would be dropping bombs on Israel right now to spread freedom to Gaza. but of course their freedom spreading is a crock of sh1te to further their aims and justify a lot of what they do. hoooya.


  • #768
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,447 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    sid waddell wrote: »
    So, you think that Israel doesn't send large numbers of professional trolls onto comment sites worldwide to propagandise for itself and to stifle debate?

    Have you been on Mars for the last decade?

    You're obviously just one of the useful idiots who aren't getting paid by them.

    Dont post in this thread again.


    Everyone else, I'd remind you all to read the OP of this thread and abide by it.


  • #769
    December2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    I feel really weak. There is a part of me that I do not want to acknowledge - that I am powerless to stop any more people being killed.

    I will boycott any products I know are from Israel, but that won't stop today's assaults.

    My sphere of influence is very limited, and most likely anybody who I can influence already agrees with me. That won't stop today's bombings.

    I am one small person in a tiny country with no political or military or financial influence.

    I am a nobody.

    And possibly right now - right this minute as I type - people are being murdered. And I can do nothing.

    That terrifies and depresses me.


  • #770
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    d.pop wrote: »
    Re one sidedness, of course this subject is an emotive one but there are a lot of posters on here who will not entertain any comments that might be perceived as not anti-Israeli.
    Personally I see that people are upset and I don't weigh in for the sake of an arguement but some of the stuff being put forward particularly around the worldwide Israeli and American conspiracy stuff needs questioning.
    Similarily, One of the earlier posts by a moderator discussing civilian deaths in war zones earned the guy nothing but abuse and that after he goes to great lengths to say he is just discussing historical fact.

    Ok,
    Do you think this wanton killing is justifiable??
    What are your thoughts of the Gazan people being locked in a 'cage'?.If you locked your animals in a cage,would you be suprised if they got mad/tried to fight back?.


  • #771
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,682 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Well they have.

    Israel could wipe Gaza off the map tomorrow if they "really" wanted too.
    If my 3 year old disobeys me, it doesn't 'show restraint' if i merely break her legs and knock out all her teeth instead of killing her with my bare hands. (which I could easily do)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #772
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "The United States issued a firm condemnation of the shelling of a United Nations school in Gaza that killed at least 16 Palestinians on Wednesday, but also confirmed it restocked Israel’s dwindling supplies of ammunition."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/us-firm-condemnation-shelling-un-school-gaza

    Classic stuff.


  • #773
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,640 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    and Hannity 'dissects' Brand :o

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/3705595207001/hollywoods-troubling-take-on-hamas/#sp=show-clips

    What a shameful channel.

    Programming for idiots.


  • #774
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    US resupplies Israel with weapons as Gaza death till hits 1380:

    GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- "The United States confirmed it had restocked Israel's supplies of ammunition, hours after finally sharpening its tone to condemn an attack on a United Nations school in Gaza that killed 16 people sheltering there."

    "Israeli airstrikes and shelling continued overnight and into the morning leaving 17 Gazans dead and dozens injured, bringing the 24-day death toll to 1,380 with 8,000 injured, according to the Ministry of Health. The Israeli military confirmed that 20 "sites" had been hit overnight."
    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=717105


  • #775
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Originally Posted by d.pop viewpost.gif
    Re one sidedness, of course this subject is an emotive one but there are a lot of posters on here who will not entertain any comments that might be perceived as not anti-Israeli.
    Personally I see that people are upset and I don't weigh in for the sake of an arguement but some of the stuff being put forward particularly around the worldwide Israeli and American conspiracy stuff needs questioning.
    Similarily, One of the earlier posts by a moderator discussing civilian deaths in war zones earned the guy nothing but abuse and that after he goes to great lengths to say he is just discussing historical fact.

    Yes I know the position you are referring to and as somebody who finds it hard to see any justification for the actions of Israel I did find his contribution constructive.


  • #776
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    December2012 wrote: »
    I feel really weak. There is a part of me that I do not want to acknowledge - that I am powerless to stop any more people being killed.

    I will boycott any products I know are from Israel, but that won't stop today's assaults.

    My sphere of influence is very limited, and most likely anybody who I can influence already agrees with me. That won't stop today's bombings.

    I am one small person in a tiny country with no political or military or financial influence.

    I am a nobody.

    And possibly right now - right this minute as I type - people are being murdered. And I can do nothing.

    That terrifies and depresses me.

    If you haven't already watch this then perhaps it might help you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR1LGoNg5p4

    I think he addresses some of the understandable angst you feel and it might help you realize that by remaining a compassionate and empathetic human being you are doing something.


  • #777
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    wes wrote: »
    It is genocide, albeit done in the same way that the American did to the Native Americans. Israel is a settler colonial state like the USA. Settler colonial states take there time with genocide, sure it took the American nearly 200 years until they wiped out most of the Native American nations. Israel is just over 60 years at there own settler colonial project.

    BTW, destroying the only power plant in Gaza, destroying the water infrastructure etc, are genocidal act, especially the destruction of the Palestinians of Gaza ability to get clean water. People will start to die within 3 days without clean water, so when people call this genocide, it is no exaggeration, just looking at the likely end result if this doesn't stop now.

    I think its already too late Wes, sadly this was planned and deliberate.
    No water, no power, no shelter, no safety, no food, no hospitals and soaring temps.

    If I was Israeli, I would hang my head in shame.

    What have you done to those poor poor kids?


  • #778
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,682 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Sounds like you're advocating for Gaza to be "wiped off the map" by Israel.

    Palestine is being wiped off the map. Literally, in the last 100 years, the land between egypt and Jordan went from exclusively arab land, to almost entirely controlled by Israel.

    Most Israelis believe that this land is rightfully theirs and in the next couple of decades, Palestine will no longer appear on maps.
    Many people in Gaza already live in U.N. controlled refugee camps. Israel will push the rest of the palestinians into refugee camps and annex their land.

    The future for the palestinian people is utterly bleak. Israel will drive them into 'refugee camps' and leave them there indefinitely.

    The refugee camps will be fenced in and blockaded by the IDF for 'security reasons' and even after the zionists have successfully stolen all of the land of Palestine, they will still blame the refugees every time they bombard the refugee camps in reprisal attacks for uprisings or geurilla attacks against israel.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #779
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Ok,
    Do you think this wanton killing is justifiable??
    What are your thoughts of the Gazan people being locked in a 'cage'?.If you locked your animals in a cage,would you be suprised if they got mad/tried to fight back?.

    No, of course I don't think it's justified, no I am not surprised that the people of gaza are fighting back.
    The whole thing is disgusting.

    At the same time I am not surprised by what Israel is doing. I don't agree with it but Israel has "form" in this regard, this is how they deal with situations like this, whether the rest of us agree or not and perhaps there is another agenda, I don't know, but they are traditionally heavy handed to say the least.
    Based in my time in Israel I feel that there is a deep rooted fear that everybody in the region wants them dead and they need to be the baddest dog in the neighbourhood.
    They do not of course help themselves with their carry on such as settlements and the recent actions in gaza which leads to more people wanting them dead and the circle continues.
    This will not end well or easily.


  • #780
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    I think its already too late Wes, sadly this was planned and deliberate.
    No water, no power, no shelter, no safety, no food, no hospitals and soaring temps.

    If I was Israeli, I would hang my head in shame.

    What have you done to those poor poor kids?

    Unfortunately most of the Israeli population is brainwashed. I mean they honestly believe that the only way to sort out the issues between Palestine and israel is to wipe out the Palestine's.

    This is the way the Israeli government want it, its a land grab end of.


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  • #781
    JamboMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    Why isn't the UN marching their army into gaza and Israel, this was condemned when hitler did it why does Israel get a free pass, especially since Israel in reality shouldn't exist.

    If this was Afghanistan or Iran doing this to a neighbouring state they would have had 50 b-52 over it the next day.

    Israel should have all weapons taken off them and military ban like the Germans had in world war 1 and 2.


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