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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #542
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    There is more than just Israel in all of this. people can ask what can be done about Israel, but what can be done about Hamas.
    Never good when terrorists are ruling any area.


  • #543
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Chance The Rapper wrote: »
    It's a pity Anonymous aren't about these days to do a bit of hacking.

    Well I believe they have. I had problems accessing the official Israeli government website recently causing me to google the fact. Here is what I found.

    https://news.vice.com/article/anonymouss-offensive-against-israel-reveals-the-splintered-state-of-hacktivism

    Obviously by posting that link I'm in no ways condoning cyber terrorism.


  • #544
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    Chance The Rapper wrote: »
    Are there any charities working actively in Palestine right now? Ones worth donating to?

    A search brings up the link below. You'd probably have to to do some thorough research on each one before donating.

    http://www.charity-charities.org/Palestine-charities/Gaza.html


    UNICEF have been running a number of ads recently in relation to Gaza. There are also appeals for South Sudan, Syria and the Central African Republic on their home page.

    http://www.unicef.ie/


  • #545
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    Maybe if enough celebrities denounced what is happening in Gaza the President of the United States would publicly denounce it too.


  • #546
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Yes Isreal is facing a threat from Hamas. Yes Hamas are a vile and evil organisation who treat the average Palestinian in a way you wouldn't treat a rabid dog. Is eliminating Hamas a good idea? Yes without doubt.

    How do you eliminate a terrorist organisation though? As in removing their leadership, members and support. Arresting or perhaps even killing the leaders and members might work but that risks increasing their support. Remember from our own history what happened when leaders were killed in 1916.

    Certainly the method that Israel is currently using in Gaza is not effective in eliminating Hamas.


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  • #547
    JC01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭JC01


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    I'm afraid I'm unaware of the statistics you cite. Is 1200 people/hr the statistical median for all wars and what constitutes a war for it to be included in the calculation. Is this figure higher for what might be deemed genocidal wars? Could you please define what you mean by genocide and also whether genocide is in your opinion only the result of armed conflict or can it be also the result of genocidal policies such as the deliberation starvation and sterilization of a population? Finally is there a defined period over which the required decimation of a population must occur to afford it the title of genocide. I ask you these questions because you seem quite knowledgeable about this subject,maybe because you have experience of combat situations yourself?,and I, like you, am dismayed by the level of discourse on this subject.

    No iv never served in any kinda combat thank god. Iv done enough study of history to see all this crap about genocide, murder etc is complete hysteria. I hadn't any particular numbers in mind but take any widely accepted genocide eg Rwanda and you can see the stupidty of comparing this conflict to an actual genocide.

    Then consider the population density of Gaza and the type of conflict that is happening ( large powerful military vs. lightly armed invisible force) and if you can detach from the obvious human feelings of utter disgust at the horrors being reeked on innocent civilians you see that the IDF are being relatively restrained here.


  • #548
    Chance The Rapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Chance The Rapper


    JC01 wrote: »
    the IDF are being relatively restrained here.

    Wow.


  • #549
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    JC01 wrote: »
    the IDF are being relatively restrained here.

    Hardly. The IDF have a history of brutal savagery that is well known to the Irish people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland%E2%80%93Israel_relations
    Tensions erupted between the two countries over alleged mistreatment of Irish forces by the Israel Defense Forces. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, Irish troops regularly called in the Israelis to threaten and discipline them over their treatment of Irish peacekeepers. Irish Foreign Minister Brian Lenihan said that much of his sympathy for Israel disappeared when he saw how Irish soldiers were treated.Irish forces were a major participant in the Battle of At Tiri, where UNIFIL troops withstood an attack by the South Lebanon Army, an Israeli-backed militia, after it attempted to set up a checkpoint in At Tiri. One Irish soldier was killed in the battle.


  • #550
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    There is more than just Israel in all of this. people can ask what can be done about Israel, but what can be done about Hamas.
    Never good when terrorists are ruling any area.
    Ah, another one.
    Would you mind telling us exactly what a terrorist is? Careful now, it has to differentiate between Hamas and the IDF remember.
    (don't feel bad when you fail, everyone else who has tried this has failed, sometimes quite hilariously)


  • #551
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »

    Obama is unable to do anything to stop the war between Gaza and Israel.
    He lacks influence with Israel and Hamas. Neither care what he has to say.

    Simplistic tosh.


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  • #552
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Strike on Gaza market during ‘partial ceasefire’ kills 17 http://jrnl.ie/1597654


  • #553
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    dav3 wrote: »
    Hardly. The IDF have a history of brutal savagery that is well known to the Irish people.

    http:/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland%E2%80%93Israel_relations
    And yet the spineless Irish guys at the UN once more suck US dick and do as they're told. Irish soldiers murdered? Ah, that's grand. Off you go again Uncle Sam and your little middle east extra state.


  • #554
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Obama is unable to do anything to stop the war between Gaza and Israel.
    He could stop giving them money and weapons. Like, duh.


  • #555
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Weathercheck wrote: »
    America should hang their heads in shame funding these atrocities.

    Its really a pity they don't listen to this fella




    On the clip I just saw on Fox News that was posted up just let me say, that Sean Hannity is an absolute disgrace, who even listens to Fox these days, a very very dangerous organisation they are!!


  • #556
    Dubl07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Dubl07


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    Energy and Money

    http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/12971-the-truth-about-israels-new-war-on-gaza--the-energy-rush

    Lets go back to 2000 when British Gas (BG) discovered that Gaza sat on an estimated $4 billion worth of natural gas. Needless to say that this discovery came as a shock to Israel, as suddenly Gaza, this little slither of land which Palestinians have been discarded upon, this purgatory which Zionists imagined to crush Palestinians' hopes and dreams, became a key geo-strategic priority. Come hail and high waters, Israel would have to gain access to those resources.

    Since BG made its first estimation, it was established that Gaza's gas reserves are far greater than first anticipated. According to Michel Chossudovsky, a Canadian economist and prominent analyst, Gaza is basking in as much wealth as the State of Kuwait. Rather than live in abject poverty, Gaza should be a vibrant business hub, a brilliant economic success. Instead, it has been withering away under Israel's blockade, forced to scrap and beg for its daily bread, its people reduced to servitude.

    THIS with big fat shiny brass knobs on.


  • #557
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Dubl07 wrote: »
    THIS with big fat shiny brass knobs on.

    Ah, it must be great to be able to see everything in black and white. I suppose Iraq was really all about oil too. :rolleyes:


  • #558
    mad muffin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnO4gy8dQIc


  • #559
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    mad muffin wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnO4gy8dQIc


    Yep. And your point is?


  • #560
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    In my naivety, perhaps, I happen to think that Noam Chomsky is a very decent and honest human being and, given his parents background and his own advanced age, is someone who has considered the plight of the Europeans Jews quite considerably but who,as I am sure most people are aware,disputes all of the arguments put forward by Israel in support of it's policies. I'm sure that most people who hold the opposite view do not hold him in any regard whatsoever. Since none of us,probably, could possibly hold a candle to his intellect then it seems strange that his words would not give pause for thought. But since some do not find what he say's persuasive then perhaps you could explain why you think he is so at odds with your own world view. What motivation,in your opinion, could he possibly have?


  • #561
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    mad muffin wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnO4gy8dQIc

    You think a few incorrectly tweeted images makes it ok for Israel to continue the shellings or that it dilutes what's actually happening? There's over 1200 Palestinians dead. Incorrect twitter posts doesn't make this any less true!


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  • #562
    mad muffin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/post_8056_b_5602701.html


  • #563
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Video of a U.N speaker breaking down after witnessing what happened at the school in Gaza earlier on.



  • #564
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Unbelievable, 100 Palestinians dead today so far.

    This has echo's of Stalingrad. Israel lost its collective mind.


  • #565
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Ah, another one.
    Would you mind telling us exactly what a terrorist is? Careful now, it has to differentiate between Hamas and the IDF remember.
    (don't feel bad when you fail, everyone else who has tried this has failed, sometimes quite hilariously)

    Hamas had a civil war in Gaza with Fatah who fled to the West Bank, leaving terrorists in control of Gaza. In a democracy, one doesn't force your opposition to flee.
    Israel has fair elections.
    Gaza has elections manipulated by violence towards the main opposition.
    Hamas getting help from North Korea - a nation compared to Nazi Germany by the UN.
    Hamas would rather spend millions on tunnels into Israel.
    Israel builds a wall to keep them out, so Hamas builds tunnels into Israel to kidnap and kill Israelis and fire rockets into Israel which cause conflict and death in Gaza.
    Israel could simply have flattened all of Gaza and occupied it rather than spending billions on a wall.
    Hamas say they want to destroy Israel.

    The blockade on Gaza will continue as long as Hamas are in power, would you trust their North Korean friends?
    http://www.examiner.com/article/hamas-reportedly-talking-arms-deal-with-north-korea


  • #566
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    He could stop giving them money and weapons. Like, duh.

    He is too busy fundraising for the democrats and upcoming elections.

    He will not do anything that affects the fundraising.


  • #567
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Hamas had a civil war in Gaza with Fatah who fled to the West Bank, leaving terrorists in control of Gaza. In a democracy, one doesn't force your opposition to flee.

    Bit odd that the Israelis did just that.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Israel has fair elections.

    ...but not for Palestinian people under its rule in the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem and Golan.


  • #568
    ElChe32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭ElChe32


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Hamas had a civil war in Gaza with Fatah who fled to the West Bank, leaving terrorists in control of Gaza. In a democracy, one doesn't force your opposition to flee.
    Israel has fair elections.
    Gaza has elections manipulated by violence towards the main opposition.
    Hamas getting help from North Korea - a nation compared to Nazi Germany by the UN.
    Hamas would rather spend millions on tunnels into Israel.
    Israel builds a wall to keep them out, so Hamas builds tunnels into Israel to kidnap and kill Israelis and fire rockets into Israel which cause conflict and death in Gaza.
    Israel could simply have flattened all of Gaza and occupied it rather than spending billions on a wall.
    Hamas say they want to destroy Israel.

    The blockade on Gaza will continue as long as Hamas are in power, would you trust their North Korean friends?
    http://www.examiner.com/article/hamas-reportedly-talking-arms-deal-with-north-korea

    So what about all Israeli atrocities before the foundation of Hamas?


  • #569
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Video of a U.N speaker breaking down after witnessing what happened at the school in Gaza earlier on.


    Since this is quite shocking and will probably be discredited or ignored by some, I decided to post this link to provide some more detail.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/07/un-spokesman-breaks-down-crying-on-tv-gaza

    Here is a quote from that article''
    “My feelings pale into insignificance compared to the enormity of the tragedy confronting each and every other person in Gaza at this time. It’s important to humanize the statistics and to realize that there is a human being with a heart and soul behind each statistic and that the humanity that lies behind these statistics should never be forgotten.”

    Anyone who has being around for awhile will remember such atrocities as Jenin and know that we have being here before but the more I hear of this current situation I'm beginning to feel that this has reached new lows.


  • #570
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    RobertKK wrote: »
    In a democracy, one doesn't force your opposition to flee.

    Do the Palestinians forced to flee their homes by Israel in 1948 and since then not count?


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  • #571
    BikeQueery
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭BikeQueery


    This shows what an ineffectual, bureaucratic, neutered state the world is in relative to the US and its "allies".

    This is happening with US funding, with US equipment and with a huge amount of support from elements of American society. Obama can wag a finger all he wants. Billions of dollars keep flowing to the Zionists, and missiles and everything else. This is sanctioned simply by being allowed to happen. And the money will continue to flow.


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