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Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

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Comments

  • #2792
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    I'm sure a similar article has probably been posted before but this is worth a read.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html


  • #2793
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.

    Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years and the response is always the same from Israel. One would think Hamas would learn from their mistakes but I suppose the lure of a martyred death is a good recruitment tool.

    People are dying in gaza directly due to Hamas's foreign policy and it's disastrous implementation.


  • #2794
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    jank wrote: »
    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.

    Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years and the response is always the same from Israel. One would think Hamas would learn from their mistakes but I suppose the lure of a martyred death is a good recruitment tool.

    People are dying in gaza directly due to Hamas's foreign policy and it's disastrous implementation.

    No one is saying the fighting i solely Israels fault because they are better equipped and better fighters. We are saying the massive civilian casualties, the bombings of hospitals, the deliberate targeting of children playing football is solely the fault of Israel.


  • #2795
    Memnoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    jank wrote: »
    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.

    Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years and the response is always the same from Israel. One would think Hamas would learn from their mistakes but I suppose the lure of a martyred death is a good recruitment tool.

    People are dying in gaza directly due to Hamas's foreign policy and it's disastrous implementation.

    Israel are to blame because collective punishment of a civilian population is a war crime.

    I can only speak for myself. I am educated and consider myself to be a fair minded person. I have no bias in favour of Muslims or Arabs, nor do I hold any kind of prejudice towards Israel or Jewish people. My opinions are formed based on what I've seen of the conflict thus far and the conclusion I've come to is that the Israeli government has no interest in peace. Their actions show that they want to slowly and surely eradicate the palestinian people and they do this by using the pretext of Hamas aggression. The current conflict is a typical example of this.

    This is not surprising since the Israeli government have all the power and can do whatever they want without any real consequences. They have nothing to gain from peace, because peace would mean a fair division of land that they are occupying through illegal settlements. The casualties inflicted by Hamas are not enough to deter them and are dismissed as a few necessary sacrifices in the greater goal of occupying all the land. They seem to view this as a more viable strategy for long term peace and security.

    Hamas are a terrorist organisation. If you want to hold the Israeli government to the same standards as a terrorist organisation then you should admit and accept that they are no better/different.

    As it stands, Israel is an apartheid state and I am absolutely disgusted by their behaviour. The only reason they have escaped severe global censure is because of America's veto in the UN security council.


  • #2796
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Just a few of the innocent victims of Israels murder machine.

    http://humanizepalestine.com/page/3/


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  • #2797
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    jank wrote: »
    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.

    Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years and the response is always the same from Israel. One would think Hamas would learn from their mistakes but I suppose the lure of a martyred death is a good recruitment tool.

    People are dying in gaza directly due to Hamas's foreign policy and it's disastrous implementation.

    People are not buying this line anymore - it's all the fault of Hamas - and the apologists at this stage who continue to peddle the official position are just insulting people's intelligence now, so stop it.

    A number of days ago I posted a link to a report that I happened upon by chance and from what I could gather hadn't been picked up on by anyone in the main stream media - until now. finally appears someone has picked up on it I think everyone should read this report.

    The Secret Report that Helps Israelis hide the Facts:

    Israeli spokesmen have their work cut out explaining how they have killed more than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians, compared with three civilians killed in Israel by Hamas rocket and mortar fire.

    But on television and radio and in newspapers, Israeli government spokesmen such as Mark Regev appear slicker and less aggressive than their predecessors, who were often visibly indifferent to how many Palestinians were killed.
    There is a reason for this enhancement of the PR skills of Israeli spokesmen. Going by what they say, the playbook they are using is a professional, well-researched and confidential study on how to influence the media and public opinion in America and Europe.
    Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".

    Every one of the 112 pages in the booklet is marked "not for distribution or publication" and it is easy to see why. The Luntz report, officially entitled "The Israel project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was leaked almost immediately to Newsweek Online, but its true importance has seldom been appreciated. It should be required reading for everybody, especially journalists, interested in any aspect of Israeli policy because of its "dos and don'ts" for Israeli spokesmen.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-30463523.html


  • #2798
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    dav3 wrote: »
    I am accusing them of pro-israeli bias and have provided proof. What proof have you got that they're not? or is it just a hunch? Much like the rabid religious fundamentalists in this country claiming RTE are liberal anti-church do-gooders, even though we hear the angelus booming on tv and radio everyday.

    I suppose if you keep repeating the same lie over and over, people start to believe it.

    RTE, during this genocide, has a clear pro-israeli bias. Simply asking the israeli propaganda machine a couple of awkward questions and then backing down is not going far enough for the majority people.

    They explained it this morning in the papers. It was an error - they bought in the piece from the European BroadCasting union and the clip and the VoiceOver were out of synch.
    As I said, amateur.
    But to imagine there is a conspiracy in RTE to side with Israel is just childish.


  • #2799
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    LorMal wrote: »
    They explained it this morning in the papers. It was an error - they bought in the piece from the European BroadCasting union and the clip and the VoiceOver were out of synch.
    As I said, amateur.
    But to imagine there is a conspiracy in RTE to side with Israel is just childish.

    Obviously.

    If criticism is levelled, firstly, it is anti-semitic, if that doesn't work, it's a conspiracy theory, if that won't float, it is childish, ignorant or racist - then go to -"This is all the fault of Hamas, they are slaughtering the Israelis, with their thousands of rockets of mass destruction", or "Israel only seeks peace".

    If all that fails, bang up a video of Borat, because that's what everyone is like -they're all against "us" - the Sacha Baron Cohen defence.. but above all, "Conspiracy theories ====>" - that's one of the best. That'll shut em up.


  • #2800
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    Obviously.

    If criticism is levelled, firstly, it is anti-semitic, if that doesn't work, it's a conspiracy theory, if that won't float, it is childish, ignorant or racist - then go to -"This is all the fault of Hamas, they are slaughtering the Israelis, with their thousands of rockets of mass destruction", or "Israel only seeks peace".

    If all that fails, bang up a video of Borat, because that's what everyone is like -they're all against "us" - the Sacha Baron Cohen defence.. but above all, "Conspiracy theories ====>" - that's one of the best. That'll shut em up.

    What a lot of nonsense. I am not an apologist for Israel. I am making the point that there is no conspiracy in RTE.


  • #2801
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    LorMal wrote: »
    But to imagine there is a conspiracy in RTE to side with Israel is just childish.

    Nobody mentioned a "conspiracy", you can surely get your point across without the hyperbole.

    The facts are there for people to make their own decisions. Let's see how the next few days play out. Let's see how much the lies and propaganda peddled by the likes of Regev and the rest of the Israeli mouthpieces go unchallenged.


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  • #2802
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    So it looks like there is going to be another aid flotilla launched this time with a Turkish military escort or so it's been claimed. Turkey has yet to confirm this though they haven't denied it. The only hope another flotilla has of breaking the blockade is with a military escort so maybe there is something to the report or what would be the point.
    http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/1.607508


  • #2803
    Darkrepeater
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭Darkrepeater


    jank wrote: »
    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.

    Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years and the response is always the same from Israel. One would think Hamas would learn from their mistakes but I suppose the lure of a martyred death is a good recruitment tool.

    People are dying in gaza directly due to Hamas's foreign policy and it's disastrous implementation.

    Sorry but, if you are as your name suggests an American, you's have been defending the actions of Israel for too long.. 3 Israeli dead civilians vs 1000 odd dead Palestinians now is hardly comparable.. Just in the few weeks..
    Also a massive difference between home made rockets and ballistic rockets..


  • #2804
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    Memnoch wrote: »
    Israel are to blame because collective punishment of a civilian population is a war crime.

    I can only speak for myself. I am educated and consider myself to be a fair minded person. I have no bias in favour of Muslims or Arabs, nor do I hold any kind of prejudice
    Hamas are a terrorist organisation.

    You should if as you say you are an educated person side with the Jews.

    They have not vowed to kill every Muslim in the World.

    Islam has vowed to kill every Jew in the World.


  • #2805
    Darkrepeater
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭Darkrepeater


    getzls wrote: »
    You should if as you say you are an educated person side with the Jews.

    They have not vowed to kill every Muslim in the World.

    Islam has vowed to kill every Jew in the World.

    I think you find that's only radical Muslims.. Not the Islam religion


  • #2806
    tallus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭tallus


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Just a few of the innocent victims of Israels murder machine.

    http://humanizepalestine.com/page/3/

    Terrible to see so many young children murdered, it moved me to tears.


  • #2807
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    Darkrepeater wrote: »
    It's absolutely awful what the Israelis are doing there at the moment alright.. I can't see how it's a fair fight anyway..

    Why should Israel make it fair?
    The Arabs want to wipe them out to the last child.
    The Koran tells them too.

    Should Israel give them the arms to do it?
    Maybe throw in a few Nuclear bombs as well?


  • #2808
    Darkrepeater
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭Darkrepeater


    getzls wrote: »
    Why should Israel make it fair?
    The Arabs want to wipe them out to the last child.
    The Koran tells them too.

    Should Israel give them the arms to do it?
    Maybe throw in a few Nuclear bombs as well?

    Any chance of quoting from where in the book of the Quran it says that please..?


  • #2809
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    getzls wrote: »
    Why should Israel make it fair?
    The Arabs want to wipe them out to the last child.
    The Koran tells them too.

    Should Israel give them the arms to do it?
    Maybe throw in a few Nuclear bombs as well?

    The bible tells us to stone women, Some radicals would go with that MOST won't. Not every Muslim takes the Koran literally you know. What the sweet **** does a 2 year old baby know about the Koran anyway?


  • #2810
    Darkrepeater
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭Darkrepeater


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The bible tells us to stone women, Some radicals would go with that MOST won't. Not every Muslim takes the Koran literally you know. What the sweet **** does a 2 year old baby know about the Koran anyway?

    I've never heard that the holy bible or holy Quran tells its followers to do either..? Please can you quote from either book where it's says either of what you have claimed..?


  • #2811
    grundie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭grundie


    getzls wrote: »
    Why should Israel make it fair?

    Because when you can show restraint in the face of terrible aggression you become the better man.

    If you don't then you are just as bad as your enemy.


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  • #2812
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Darkrepeater wrote: »
    I've never heard that the holy bible or holy Quran tells its followers to do either..? Please can you quote from either book where it's says either of what you have claimed..?

    Here you go
    Deut. 22:13-21

    "If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you." (Deut. 22:13-21).


  • #2813
    mickstupp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    jank wrote: »
    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.
    It's not because they're better equipped and better fighters. They're to blame for this conflict, this one right now, because they wrongfully used the deaths of three kids to invade and bomb the holy crap out of hundreds of people, wiping out families, ruining lives, and destroying massive amounts of infrastructure while they were at it. And even if they'd been right, that doesn't justify their actions. Nothing justifies their actions.

    But beyond the issue of who started what (and this time it was clearly Israel), lots of people are giving out because the Israelis seem to be thoroughly incompetent (or willfully indiscriminate) in their killing. They're levelling the place. It's like blowing up a whole house to kill a single mouse. They have absolutely no regard for human life.


  • #2814
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Darkrepeater wrote: »
    It's absolutely awful what the Israelis are doing there at the moment alright.. I can't see how it's a fair fight anyway..

    "Fair fight" has nothing to do with it. This isn't a schoolyard tussle or a boxing match. It is not necessary that every military conflict be engineered to result in a "fair fight" or evenly matched sides.

    What matters is, is this a just war/conflict. Are the Israeli's justified in bombing Gaza and are Hamas justified in bombing Israel. The fact that Hamas are woefully out-gunned is neither here nor there. To Israeli eyes, the continue to shell Israel.

    I hope the bombs and guns fall silent for good now and a lasting peace is found. But Hamas are radical, militant islamists with a vow to destroy the state of Israel. They are, though some won't admit it, a slightly more presentable stand of militant Islamism than ISIS. They share the same goals, methods and motivations. They are, in my opinion, allies.


  • #2815
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,411 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    jank wrote: »
    I don't get the reasoning why Israel are to blame solely for this conflict simply because they are better equipped and better fighters.

    Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years and the response is always the same from Israel. One would think Hamas would learn from their mistakes but I suppose the lure of a martyred death is a good recruitment tool.

    People are dying in gaza directly due to Hamas's foreign policy and it's disastrous implementation.

    From my understanding of what's going on, it's a domestic issue for Palestine. Not that I agree with Hamas's actions in the slightest and Israel's re-action is entirely disproportionate. Doesn't matter how many of us understand or say this. It won't stop what's going on over there. Both Hamas and Israel are hard set on destroying each other.


  • #2816
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    getzls wrote: »
    Why should Israel make it fair?
    The Arabs want to wipe them out to the last child.
    The Koran tells them too.

    Should Israel give them the arms to do it?
    Maybe throw in a few Nuclear bombs as well?

    This is totally untrue.....the one place that Jews were not discriminated against, nor subject to pogrom etc. was the Muslim world.. so much so that when Christianity came back into power in Spain in the late 1400's the Jews fled with the Muslims... this is why many Jewish communities can be found along the North coast of Africa, because they left southern Europe under the protection of the Muslims.

    Palestine, as it existed before 1948, had Jews living side by side with Christians and Muslims for century after century without the slightest trace of discrimination or violence or pogrom. This changed not long after the creation of the state of Israel.

    So what has actually happened is that Christian antisemitism in Europe, the massacre of 6 million Jews during the holocaust, the persecution and discrimination etc.... is being paid for by the very people who are innocent of that holocaust... the Palestinians.


  • #2817
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    But Hamas are radical, militant islamists with a vow to destroy the state of Israel. They are, though some won't admit it, a slightly more presentable stand of militant Islamism than ISIS. They share the same goals, methods and motivations. They are, in my opinion, allies.

    People fail to see the bigger picture here,these last few weeks are nothing compared to whats coming down the road


  • #2818
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    They are, though some won't admit it, a slightly more presentable stand of militant Islamism than ISIS. They share the same goals, methods and motivations. They are, in my opinion, allies.

    I suggest you need to educate yourself more if that's your opinion. Do you honestly believe they are allies?
    Using your logic through tenuous links, The Israeli government and leadership is allied with the Syrian government and leadership.


  • #2819
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    If World War Z taught us anything, it's that the best chance of bringing stability and peace to the region is through some kind of external zombie threat.


  • #2820
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    dav3 wrote: »
    I suggest you need to educate yourself more if that's your opinion. Do you honestly believe they are allies?
    Using your logic through tenuous links, The Israeli government and leadership is allied with the Syrian government and leadership.

    Hamas and ISIS share more in common than just a shared enemy (as Israel and Syria share). They share (some) motivations, methodology and desires.


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  • #2821
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,641 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Nothing will ever make me believe people here (apart from islamophobes) genuinely support the IDF's abhorrent excessive force. Just looks like a smokescreen for pushing another agenda - e.g. not wanting to hold the same view as "lefties", being loyalist so automatically supporting the Israeli military (coz yeh, loyalist hardliners have always had so much time for the Jews and never had links to far-right organisations like Combat 18).

    I despair at Hamas's rocket launches and do hold them some bit responsible, but for people to pin the blame entirely on them, as if the IDF isn't responsible itself for all the slaughter it's inflicting on innocent people... is warped. Oh but it's an army and they wear uniforms so they're ok.

    Probably one of the most sensible observations on this entire thread.


This discussion has been closed.
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