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Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

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Comments

  • #1862
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Gotta stay on the good side of the Yanks.

    Of course. Wouldn't want to think for ourselves


  • #1863
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    The Moral Maze on BBC R4 is just about to start, and it's about Gaza, war etc - don't know who the guests are, but just thought I'd flag it up, because it usually has some interesting perspectives and it's a damn sight more thoughtful than the soundbites we usually get.


  • #1864
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    The Palestinians of Gaza are interned there. The Israelis control everything that enters and leaves. Your analogy bears no resemblance to reality, none at all.



    That stupid red herring. The Israelis couldn't give a shit what a bunch of 'terrorists' think. Israel exists and is going nowhere and the Israelis know this. Israel has nukes ffs.

    The Israelis are the ones who do not recognise that the Palestinians have a right to their own homeland. It's the Israelis who refuse to grant or recognise Palestinian rights and aspirations; on the contrary, they are actively destroying any chance of it happening by carving up the West Bank and colonising it.

    The Israelis traded peace for land a long time ago - they want the West Bank and they'll have it

    Ffs, that's what I'm trying to say, I don't agree with settlement, ok?
    but let's call a spade a spade re internment, it's terrible but Israel have done and would again fully open borders or at least as open as a border could be in the Middle East if the terrorist attacks stopped, eventually.
    There has always been a Jewish state in Israel there has never been a Palestinian state, Israel was established legally in the 40's and has been fighting for survival since.
    People on here seem to believe that the IDF is an army of autobots following some crackpots orders to kill all Palestinian children they meet.
    The IDF is an army of 18yr old conscripts sent into harms way believing they are doing the right thing by their families at home.
    Maybe there is a higher agenda, I don't know, I'm just saying the young men on the ground are there because they have to be.
    Have you met any Israelis? Contrary to popular opinion now and like popular opinion back in the day they do not walk around drinking the blood of Christians etc.
    They do enjoy a drop of wine or a beer however.


  • #1865
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Holsten wrote: »
    The entire situation makes my blood boil, Israel as a country makes my blood boil.

    What can actually be done? Powerless to stop them and their extermination of the Palestinians.

    Revive the Nazi Party, take over Europe and round up the Jews, while dancing to springtime for Hitler. I'm from Dusseldorf and that is why they call me Rolf.

    don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party


  • #1866
    Drumorig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭Drumorig


    d.pop wrote: »
    There has always been a Jewish state in Israel there has never been a Palestinian state, Israel was established legally in the 40's and has been fighting for survival since.
    That's bull****, world maps pre world war 2 tell a different story, infact palestine was HUGE so your either brainwashed or lying, it's one or the other, no question...


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  • #1867
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    d.pop wrote: »
    Ffs, that's what I'm trying to say, I don't agree with settlement, ok?
    but let's call a spade a spade re internment, it's terrible but Israel have done and would again fully open borders or at least as open as a border could be in the Middle East if the terrorist attacks stopped, eventually.
    There has always been a Jewish state in Israel there has never been a Palestinian state, Israel was established legally in the 40's and has been fighting for survival since.
    People on here seem to believe that the IDF is an army of autobots following some crackpots orders to kill all Palestinian children they meet.
    The IDF is an army of 18yr old conscripts sent into harms way believing they are doing the right thing by their families at home.
    Maybe there is a higher agenda, I don't know, I'm just saying the young men on the ground are there because they have to be.
    Have you met any Israelis? Contrary to popular opinion now and like popular opinion back in the day they do not walk around drinking the blood of Christians etc.
    They do enjoy a drop of wine or a beer however.

    Sorry, to clarify, yes the Jewish state was officially founded in the late 40's, I should have said however the Jewish people have been in the area since Moses came over or through the Red Sea if you believe the stories and have as much right to anybody to be there.


  • #1868
    Drumorig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭Drumorig


    d.pop wrote: »
    Sorry, to clarify, yes the Jewish state was officially founded in the late 40's, I should have said however the Jewish people have been in the area since Moses came over or through the Red Sea if you believe the stories and have as much right to anybody to be there.
    Ah right, parted the sea, you'd want to be a bit simple to believe any of that.


  • #1869
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,716 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    According to the journal, the un rights council are launching a probe in to the Israeli attacks.

    and as expected, israel has responded by calling the un rights council an "anti israel body"

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1870
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    Drumorig wrote: »
    That's bull****, world maps pre world war 2 tell a different story, infact palestine was HUGE so your either brainwashed or lying, it's one or the other, no question...

    Reposted a second after to clarify.
    The world is a crappy place, particular in the early 1900 's when countries were annexed, destroyed, conquered etc. not unlike the people of Northern Ireland though, where would you like the Jews to go? Home? Home to where?
    What about Leitrim? They could all go there maybe and all the Palestinians could have Israel?


  • #1871
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Uriel. wrote: »
    And Ireland refused to support the motion

    All of Europe abstained. The US was the only country to vote against!


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  • #1872
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    niallo27 wrote: »
    I noticed a lot of fake outrage.
    On AH I notice quite a bit of "I don't care so therefore people who say they do care are being fake or faux".
    Fairly arrogant, self important attitude.


  • #1873
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,716 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    d.pop wrote: »
    People on here seem to believe that the IDF is an army of autobots

    the generals certainly are, and always have been
    d.pop wrote: »
    some crackpots orders to kill all Palestinian children they meet.

    thats what dear old ben is, a crackpot

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1874
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,682 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    The Moral Maze on BBC R4 is just about to start, and it's about Gaza, war etc - don't know who the guests are, but just thought I'd flag it up, because it usually has some interesting perspectives and it's a damn sight more thoughtful than the soundbites we usually get.

    I've been listening to this and frankly, the level of discussion on this show is worse than on here in Afterhours.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #1875
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    end of the road wrote: »
    the generals certainly are, and always have been



    thats what dear old ben is, a crackpot

    Look, think its fair to say Israel is flawed, a few days after the modern nation was founded all hell broke loose and it's been a mess since.
    But I worked in the fields alongside old European Jews who survived ww2 and moved to Israel to begin afresh, a few years after they arrived they were fighting hand to hand in own gardens against all the neighbouring countries who vowed to destroy Israel. That happened again a few decades later and has been going on in varying degrees since.
    Now these guys kids and grand kids are in the "trenches"...
    just saying, it sucks, it's wrong on both sides, but the guys I know are not baby killers, they are just trying to survive in a very inhospitable neighbourhood. Like the Palestinians they have nowhere to go either.


  • #1876
    Drumorig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭Drumorig


    d.pop wrote: »
    Reposted a second after to clarify.
    The world is a crappy place, particular in the early 1900 's when countries were annexed, destroyed, conquered etc. not unlike the people of Northern Ireland though, where would you like the Jews to go? Home? Home to where?
    What about Leitrim? They could all go there maybe and all the Palestinians could have Israel?
    Your twisting it now, could they not stay where they are?
    What israel are doing is taking palestinian land every day, more & more till they have it all, so don't bull**** me.


  • #1877
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    Drumorig wrote: »
    Your twisting it now, could they not stay where they are?
    What israel are doing is taking palestinian land every day, more & more till they have it all, so don't bull**** me.

    The Palestinian leadership were offered a independent state, pre 1967 boarders, 3 times since 2000. They rejected all 3. Going back to 1930 they have been offered their own state, with land swaps, plenty of times.


  • #1878
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    d.pop wrote: »
    Look, think its fair to say Israel is flawed, a few days after the modern nation was founded all hell broke loose and it's been a mess since.
    But I worked in the fields alongside old European Jews who survived ww2 and moved to Israel to begin afresh, a few years after they arrived they were fighting hand to hand in own gardens against all the neighbouring countries who vowed to destroy Israel. That happened again a few decades later and has been going on in varying degrees since.
    Now these guys kids and grand kids are in the "trenches"...
    just saying, it sucks, it's wrong on both sides, but the guys I know are not baby killers, they are just trying to survive in a very inhospitable neighbourhood. Like the Palestinians they have nowhere to go either.


    The only place I've suggested they go is back to Israel.


  • #1879
    d.pop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭d.pop


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    All of Europe abstained. The US was the only country to vote against!

    Perhaps to some extremist's Israel is the face of the western world in the Middle East, particularly because of ties to US? If Israel falls it is open season on the west for the al-qaedas of the world.


  • #1880
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    smoking_kills wrote: »
    The Palestinian leadership were offered a independent state, pre 1967 boarders, 3 times since 2000. They rejected all 3. Going back to 1930 they have been offered their own state, with land swaps, plenty of times.


    Simplistic tosh, tbh. There was never an acceptable deal that dealt with all the issues. Arafat was indeed a crap negotiator, but he did not reject a contiguous Palestinian state and Arab East Jerusalem. Since then Fatah have dropped demands for the right of return and still Israel isn't interested. Presumably they'll sue for peace when they have what they want of the West Bank secured.


  • #1881
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    d.pop wrote: »
    Perhaps to some extremist's Israel is the face of the western world in the Middle East, particularly because of ties to US? If Israel falls it is open season on the west for the al-qaedas of the world.

    .....dear jesus spare me from hysteria.


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  • #1882
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,716 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    d.pop wrote: »
    Perhaps to some extremist's Israel is the face of the western world in the Middle East, particularly because of ties to US? If Israel falls it is open season on the west for the al-qaedas of the world.
    no, very untrue

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1883
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    smoking_kills wrote: »
    The Palestinian leadership were offered a independent state, pre 1967 boarders, 3 times since 2000. They rejected all 3. Going back to 1930 they have been offered their own state, with land swaps, plenty of times.

    Eh, no they weren't.

    Israel has been taking the piss, not just since 2000. not just since 1993, but since 1948.

    Never, once, in the history of the state, has it negotiated in good faith.


  • #1884
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    Nodin wrote: »
    Simplistic tosh, tbh. There was never an acceptable deal that dealt with all the issues. Arafat was indeed a crap negotiator, but he did not reject a contiguous Palestinian state and Arab East Jerusalem. Since then Fatah have dropped demands for the right of return and still Israel isn't interested. Presumably they'll sue for peace when they have what they want of the West Bank secured.


    What other issues, that Israel would not self destruct?

    Takes 2 sides to make concessions, Israel has shown time and again they are willing to. Can you say the same about the Palestinian authority or Hamas?


  • #1885
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Akrasia wrote: »
    I've been listening to this and frankly, the level of discussion on this show is worse than on here in Afterhours.
    Let me guess, was Melanie Phillips on it?


  • #1886
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    smoking_kills wrote: »
    What other issues, that Israel would not self destruct?

    Takes 2 sides to make concessions, Israel has shown time and again they are willing to. Can you say the same about the Palestinian authority or Hamas?



    ....yep.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession

    If Israel is interested in a real peace, why is it still encouraging settlement in the West Bank?


  • #1887
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Eh, no they weren't.

    Israel has been taking the piss, not just since 2000. not just since 1993, but since 1948.

    Never, once, in the history of the state, has it negotiated in good faith.


    Well yeah they were actually.

    And what do you mean they were taking the piss?

    And please tell us all how you know they were not negotiating in good faith, are u privy to some information the rest of the world is not?


  • #1888
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....yep.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession

    If Israel is interested in a real peace, why is it still encouraging settlement in the West Bank?


    I dont sit in on IDF and Israel policy meeting, neither do you as it happens, so i dont know. But if its just about land, why do Israel make offers to the Palestinians?


  • #1889
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    All of Europe abstained. The US was the only country to vote against!

    And...?


  • #1890
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    smoking_kills wrote: »
    I dont sit in on IDF and Israel policy meeting, neither do you as it happens, so i dont know. But if its just about land, why do Israel make offers to the Palestinians?


    PR - its easy to make an unacceptable offer, have the others reject and then claim that its them being difficult. As these talks don't involved the UN, its not exactly a level playing field.

    The fact is that they keep expanding existing settlements in the West Bank and in and around Arab East Jerusalem. That's an aggressive act that inflames the current situation and makes the solution harder in the long term.

    Did you read the article I posted?


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  • #1891
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    Nodin wrote: »
    PR - its easy to make an unacceptable offer, have the others reject and then claim that its them being difficult. As these talks don't involved the UN, its not exactly a level playing field.

    The fact is that they keep expanding existing settlements in the West Bank and in and around Arab East Jerusalem. That's an aggressive act that inflames the current situation and makes the solution harder in the long term.

    Did you read the article I posted?

    Yes i did, and makes no difference, only documents the last 10 years. What about all the previous rejections of a Palestinian state? The UN were involved in earlier discussions as well you know, they were rejected as well.

    And as i said, i have no idea why they are expanding existing settlements in the West Bank.


This discussion has been closed.
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