bumper234 wrote: » Gotta stay on the good side of the Yanks.
Karl Stein wrote: » The Palestinians of Gaza are interned there. The Israelis control everything that enters and leaves. Your analogy bears no resemblance to reality, none at all. That stupid red herring. The Israelis couldn't give a shit what a bunch of 'terrorists' think. Israel exists and is going nowhere and the Israelis know this. Israel has nukes ffs. The Israelis are the ones who do not recognise that the Palestinians have a right to their own homeland. It's the Israelis who refuse to grant or recognise Palestinian rights and aspirations; on the contrary, they are actively destroying any chance of it happening by carving up the West Bank and colonising it. The Israelis traded peace for land a long time ago - they want the West Bank and they'll have it
Holsten wrote: » The entire situation makes my blood boil, Israel as a country makes my blood boil. What can actually be done? Powerless to stop them and their extermination of the Palestinians.
d.pop wrote: » There has always been a Jewish state in Israel there has never been a Palestinian state, Israel was established legally in the 40's and has been fighting for survival since.
d.pop wrote: » Ffs, that's what I'm trying to say, I don't agree with settlement, ok? but let's call a spade a spade re internment, it's terrible but Israel have done and would again fully open borders or at least as open as a border could be in the Middle East if the terrorist attacks stopped, eventually. There has always been a Jewish state in Israel there has never been a Palestinian state, Israel was established legally in the 40's and has been fighting for survival since. People on here seem to believe that the IDF is an army of autobots following some crackpots orders to kill all Palestinian children they meet. The IDF is an army of 18yr old conscripts sent into harms way believing they are doing the right thing by their families at home. Maybe there is a higher agenda, I don't know, I'm just saying the young men on the ground are there because they have to be. Have you met any Israelis? Contrary to popular opinion now and like popular opinion back in the day they do not walk around drinking the blood of Christians etc. They do enjoy a drop of wine or a beer however.
d.pop wrote: » Sorry, to clarify, yes the Jewish state was officially founded in the late 40's, I should have said however the Jewish people have been in the area since Moses came over or through the Red Sea if you believe the stories and have as much right to anybody to be there.
Buzz Killington the third wrote: » According to the journal, the un rights council are launching a probe in to the Israeli attacks.
Drumorig wrote: » That's bull****, world maps pre world war 2 tell a different story, infact palestine was HUGE so your either brainwashed or lying, it's one or the other, no question...
Uriel. wrote: » And Ireland refused to support the motion
niallo27 wrote: » I noticed a lot of fake outrage.
d.pop wrote: » People on here seem to believe that the IDF is an army of autobots
d.pop wrote: » some crackpots orders to kill all Palestinian children they meet.
Donkey Oaty wrote: » The Moral Maze on BBC R4 is just about to start, and it's about Gaza, war etc - don't know who the guests are, but just thought I'd flag it up, because it usually has some interesting perspectives and it's a damn sight more thoughtful than the soundbites we usually get.
end of the road wrote: » the generals certainly are, and always have been thats what dear old ben is, a crackpot
d.pop wrote: » Reposted a second after to clarify. The world is a crappy place, particular in the early 1900 's when countries were annexed, destroyed, conquered etc. not unlike the people of Northern Ireland though, where would you like the Jews to go? Home? Home to where? What about Leitrim? They could all go there maybe and all the Palestinians could have Israel?
Drumorig wrote: » Your twisting it now, could they not stay where they are? What israel are doing is taking palestinian land every day, more & more till they have it all, so don't bull**** me.
d.pop wrote: » Look, think its fair to say Israel is flawed, a few days after the modern nation was founded all hell broke loose and it's been a mess since. But I worked in the fields alongside old European Jews who survived ww2 and moved to Israel to begin afresh, a few years after they arrived they were fighting hand to hand in own gardens against all the neighbouring countries who vowed to destroy Israel. That happened again a few decades later and has been going on in varying degrees since. Now these guys kids and grand kids are in the "trenches"... just saying, it sucks, it's wrong on both sides, but the guys I know are not baby killers, they are just trying to survive in a very inhospitable neighbourhood. Like the Palestinians they have nowhere to go either.
Buzz Killington the third wrote: » All of Europe abstained. The US was the only country to vote against!
smoking_kills wrote: » The Palestinian leadership were offered a independent state, pre 1967 boarders, 3 times since 2000. They rejected all 3. Going back to 1930 they have been offered their own state, with land swaps, plenty of times.
d.pop wrote: » Perhaps to some extremist's Israel is the face of the western world in the Middle East, particularly because of ties to US? If Israel falls it is open season on the west for the al-qaedas of the world.
Nodin wrote: » Simplistic tosh, tbh. There was never an acceptable deal that dealt with all the issues. Arafat was indeed a crap negotiator, but he did not reject a contiguous Palestinian state and Arab East Jerusalem. Since then Fatah have dropped demands for the right of return and still Israel isn't interested. Presumably they'll sue for peace when they have what they want of the West Bank secured.
Akrasia wrote: » I've been listening to this and frankly, the level of discussion on this show is worse than on here in Afterhours.
smoking_kills wrote: » What other issues, that Israel would not self destruct? Takes 2 sides to make concessions, Israel has shown time and again they are willing to. Can you say the same about the Palestinian authority or Hamas?
sid waddell wrote: » Eh, no they weren't. Israel has been taking the piss, not just since 2000. not just since 1993, but since 1948.Never, once, in the history of the state, has it negotiated in good faith.
Nodin wrote: » ....yep.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/23/palestine-papers-expose-peace-concession If Israel is interested in a real peace, why is it still encouraging settlement in the West Bank?
smoking_kills wrote: » I dont sit in on IDF and Israel policy meeting, neither do you as it happens, so i dont know. But if its just about land, why do Israel make offers to the Palestinians?
Nodin wrote: » PR - its easy to make an unacceptable offer, have the others reject and then claim that its them being difficult. As these talks don't involved the UN, its not exactly a level playing field. The fact is that they keep expanding existing settlements in the West Bank and in and around Arab East Jerusalem. That's an aggressive act that inflames the current situation and makes the solution harder in the long term. Did you read the article I posted?
