Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

Playboy · 23-07-2014 08:23AM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

And it started with possibly and maybe. If you believe they were war crimes, say so, why say possibly and maybe? Show some conviction.

Yeah because conviction is something to be admired all round isn't it? Israeli's are showing plenty of conviction at the moment and its doing everyone a lot of good. Sometimes there is no right answer, only compromise. Hamas and the Israeli government will need to leave their conviction at the door if there is ever to be a peaceful solution to this conflict.

Buzz Killington the third · 23-07-2014 09:34AM

THE DECISION MAKING body of Palestine has backed demands made by Hamas for a peace deal that would stop fighting in Gaza.

Then in the same article:

Meanwhile, Israeli tank fire killed five people, including two children, in southern Gaza this morning, medics said.

http://www.thejournal.ie/five-killed-in-gaza-as-plo-backs-hamas-truce-demands-1584890-Jul2014/

bumper234 · 23-07-2014 09:39AM

UN Chief: 'Israel Could Be Guilty Of War Crimes'

http://news.sky.com/story/1306015/un-chief-israel-could-be-guilty-of-war-crimes

The UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights says there is a "strong possibility" Israel is violating international law in Gaza.

"There seems to be a strong possibility that international law has been violated, in a manner that could amount to war crimes," she continued, citing attacks that have killed Palestinian civilians, including children.

smoking_kills · 23-07-2014 09:50AM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Then in the same article:

http://www.thejournal.ie/five-killed-in-gaza-as-plo-backs-hamas-truce-demands-1584890-Jul2014/

That’s Laughable, if they were so concerned with peace talks why did they continue the rocket attacks when Israel warned them not to. They had the chance not to let it escalate and they ignored it.

bumper234 wrote: »

UN Chief: 'Israel Could Be Guilty Of War Crimes'

http://news.sky.com/story/1306015/un-chief-israel-could-be-guilty-of-war-crimes

Right, and AGAIN, so are Hamas. They targeted civilians as well.

wes · 23-07-2014 09:52AM

smoking_kills wrote: »

That’s Laughable, if they were so concerned with peace talks why did they continue the rocket attacks when Israel warned them not to. They had the chance not to let it escalate and they ignored it.

You could just as easily argue that Israel escalated things in the first place with mass arrests.......

smoking_kills wrote: »

Right, and AGAIN, so are Hamas. They targeted civilians as well.

No one is disputing that, however plenty of people defending Israel.

Arthur Beesley · 23-07-2014 09:55AM

WakeUp wrote: »

Fair enough. If you're asking my opinion then I would say war crime. the reason I said maybe was because of you know, international law, that thing you claim doesn't exist - there may be some ambiguity as to the circumstance involved and as I'm not on the ground and the full facts still to be verified which I'm sure they will be , for now, maybe seemed fair enough. though I think it's a warcrime. next time I ask you a question I hope you can do me the courtesy and give me a straight answer, hard and all as that might be for you . sh1t even leaving Hamas out of a reply would be a start.

Do you expect me to read all that?

Buzz Killington the third · 23-07-2014 09:56AM

smoking_kills wrote: »

That’s Laughable, if they were so concerned with peace talks why did they continue the rocket attacks when Israel warned them not to. They had the chance not to let it escalate and they ignored it.

Right, and AGAIN, so are Hamas. They targeted civilians as well.

Clearly you didn't read the article... They've offered a truce followed by negotiations but Israel keeps attacking. Apart from the tank attacks this morning there's also this:

Last night, Israeli fire hit a UN school sheltering the displaced for the second time in two days, said the United Nations’ Palestinian refugee agency, UNRWA.

“UNRWA condemns in the strongest possible terms the shelling of one of its schools in the central area of Gaza,” it said in a statement.

Arthur Beesley · 23-07-2014 09:58AM

Playboy wrote: »

Yeah because conviction is something to be admired all round isn't it? Israeli's are showing plenty of conviction at the moment and its doing everyone a lot of good. Sometimes there is no right answer, only compromise. Hamas and the Israeli government will need to leave their conviction at the door if there is ever to be a peaceful solution to this conflict.

I agree there needs to be a peaceful solution.

The point is the OP claims there were war crimes committed, why say possibly or maybe? Does he not believe what he is saying?

Don't read more into my use of conviction.

smurgen · 23-07-2014 09:59AM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Do you expect me to read all that?

Why are you in this thread? Your input is useless.

smoking_kills · 23-07-2014 10:01AM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Clearly you didn't read the article... They've offered a truce followed by negotiations but Israel keeps attacking. Apart from the tank attacks this morning there's also this:

I did read it, and my point stands. Little late now asking for talks when they could have prevented it from starting in the first place.

Buzz Killington the third · 23-07-2014 10:04AM

smoking_kills wrote: »

I did read it, and my point stands. Little late now asking for talks when they could have prevented it from starting in the first place.

Sorry but that's a load of crap. Israel just keeps on killing innocent civilians where Palestine/Hamas doesn't.

smurgen · 23-07-2014 10:05AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

And what EXACTLY do you deem to be proportionate??

Anything that doesn't involve blowing up hospitals or shelling four innocent children on a beach would be a good start.

wes · 23-07-2014 10:08AM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

The point is the OP claims there were war crimes committed, why say possibly or maybe? Does he not believe what he is saying?

Oh please enough with the sophistry, no one is buying it. It is common for people who believe in the rule of law, to use terms like maybe until a court case has happened. Your suggestion are typical of someone losing an argument and just doing there best to frustrate people. I get it, your taking the piss, and looking to get a rise out of people.

smoking_kills · 23-07-2014 10:13AM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Sorry but that's a load of crap. Israel just keeps on killing innocent civilians where Palestine/Hamas doesn't.

They are still launching rockets, so its not for the lack of trying.

I dont condone what the IDF are doing, but hamas have to take a portion of the blame as well, so when UN chiefs and whoever accuse Israel of war crimes and not Hamas, it smacks of bias and hypocrisy.

Buzz Killington the third · 23-07-2014 10:13AM

The level of propaganda from Israel and it's supporters is just shocking.

- Israel steals land.
- Hamas launch a rocket.
- Israel sounds an alarm and tells people to duck and cover knowing full well that it wont reach it's target.
- Israel commits war crimes by killing children and other innocent civilians.
- Israel takes a bit more land.
- Israel tells people it's now safe.
- Hamas decides to retaliate because Israel is wiping out the Palestinian population and the circle continues...

Hamas have offered a truce and Israel just keep moving forward.

mad muffin · 23-07-2014 10:14AM

I love the cherry picking.

It's all one sided here. The Palestinians are innocent bystanders and Hamas are their white knights defending them.

Do you people know why the blockade of Gaza was implemented in the first place? Hamas was sending out suicide bombers blowing up busses and restaurants in Israel. Full of innocent people all slaughtered in the name of genocide against the Israeli people.

mad muffin · 23-07-2014 10:14AM

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

The level of propaganda from Israel and it's supporters is just shocking.

- Israel steals land.
- Hamas launch a rocket.
- Israel sounds an alarm and tells people to duck and cover knowing full well that it wont reach it's target.
- Israel commits war crimes by killing children and other innocent civilians.
- Israel takes a bit more land.
- Israel tells people it's now safe.
- Hamas decides to retaliate because Israel is wiping out the Palestinian population and the circle continues...

Hamas have offered a truce and Israel just keep moving forward.

Hello Hamas mouthpiece. Meet kettle.

VinLieger · 23-07-2014 10:16AM

mad muffin wrote: »

I love the cherry picking.

It's all one sided here. The Palestinians are innocent bystanders and Hamas are their white knights defending them.

Do you people know why the blockade of Gaza was implemented in the first place? Hamas was sending out suicide bombers blowing up busses and restaurants in Israel. Full of innocent people all slaughtered in the name of genocide against the Israeli people.

It's no where near as clear cut as you are trying to make it out. Hamas started doing that as a retalition for something Israel did, which Israel did as a retaliation for something Hamas did and so and and so on.

There is wrong doing on both sides BUT right now the disproportionate response from Israel is just wrong and in reality is just what Hamas wanted to happen as it simply strengthens their cause and gains more international attention against Israel.

wes · 23-07-2014 10:20AM

mad muffin wrote: »

I love the cherry picking.

Loved it so much you decided to do some yourself....

mad muffin wrote: »

It's all one sided here. The Palestinians are innocent bystanders and Hamas are their white knights defending them.

I don't remember much support for Hamas on here, but i have seen plenty of for Israels crimes.

mad muffin wrote: »

Do you people know why the blockade of Gaza was implemented in the first place? Hamas was sending out suicide bombers blowing up busses and restaurants in Israel. Full of innocent people all slaughtered in the name of genocide against the Israeli people.

Here is an example of someone supporting Israel's crimes. So let address the first thing, attacks on civilians regardless of who is doing is wrong. That goes for a siege, that is an illegal act of collective punishment on the entire populace of Gaza. So quite frankly your are engaged in massive hypocrisy by defending Israels siege, and are actively doing what you claim other are doing.

Secondly, your time line is way off, Hamas ended there suicide bombing campaign before the siege on Gaza.

Thirdly, if Hamas wanted to send suicide bomber into Israel, the siege wouldn't be an impediment, as plenty of Palestinians are able to sneak into Israel for work on a daily basis.

So your completely wrong in your attempt to justify an blatant attack on a civilian populace. Also, Hamas are also wrong in there indiscriminate rocket fire and should stop immediately. So, both side needs to stop firing rockets and attacking civilians, and the Israeli siege also needs to end, and anyone who supports it, are in no position to condemn Hamas imho.

Buzz Killington the third · 23-07-2014 10:20AM

mad muffin wrote: »

Do you people know why the blockade of Gaza was implemented in the first place? Hamas was sending out suicide bombers blowing up busses and restaurants in Israel. Full of innocent people all slaughtered in the name of genocide against the Israeli people.

Yes... after Israel kept taking more and more land from the Palestinian people. I don't condone the violence from either side but when you invade, you will meet resistance! the level of violence that Israel are loading onto the people in Gaza is totally disproportionate to what Hamas are doing now or have done in the past.

mad muffin · 23-07-2014 10:22AM

VinLieger wrote: »

It's no where near as clear cut as you are trying to make it out. Hamas started doing that as a retalition for something Israel did, which Israel did as a retaliation for something Hamas did and so and and so on.

There is wrong doing on both sides BUT right now the disproportionate response from Israel is just wrong and in reality is just what Hamas wanted to happen as it simply strengthens their cause and gains more international attention against Israel.

And what did Israel do? They established a country under the UN mandate. The Palestinians could have done the same but they wanted it all and wanted the Jews wiped out.

As it turned out Israel was stronger than all the Arab countries combined. Since then they wanted nothing but the total destruction of Israel. Israel are simply defending themselves from said destruction.

Sure Gaza and Hamas are like a mosquito trying to sting an 800 pound Gorilla, except that mosquito comes with malaria.

You can't just ignore it.

Arthur Beesley · 23-07-2014 10:24AM

wes wrote: »

Oh please enough with the sophistry, no one is buying it. It is common for people who believe in the rule of law, to use terms like maybe until a court case has happened. Your suggestion are typical of someone losing an argument and just doing there best to frustrate people. I get it, your taking the piss, and looking to get a rise out of people.

So the point is they are not war crimes until a court is law says they are.

Uriel. · 23-07-2014 10:24AM

VinLieger wrote: »

It's no where near as clear cut as you are trying to make it out. Hamas started doing that as a retalition for something Israel did, which Israel did as a retaliation for something Hamas did and so and and so on.

There is wrong doing on both sides BUT right now the disproportionate response from Israel is just wrong and in reality is just what Hamas wanted to happen as it simply strengthens their cause and gains more international attention against Israel.

I wonder what the national and international reaction would have been, if, during the troubles in Ireland, the British Government, in response to IRA attacks, undertook a Bloody Sunday type response the following Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday and so on...while edging the border further South...

mad muffin · 23-07-2014 10:25AM

wes wrote: »

Loved it so much you decided to do some yourself....

I don't remember much support for Hamas on here, but i have seen plenty of for Israels crimes.

Here is an example of someone supporting Israel's crimes. So let address the first thing, attacks on civilians regardless of who is doing is wrong. That goes for a siege, that is an illegal act of collective punishment on the entire populace of Gaza. So quite frankly your are engaged in massive hypocrisy by defending Israels siege, and are actively doing what you claim other are doing.

Secondly, your time line is way off, Hamas ended there suicide bombing campaign before the siege on Gaza.

Thirdly, if Hamas wanted to send suicide bomber into Israel, the siege wouldn't be an impediment, as plenty of Palestinians are able to sneak into Israel for work on a daily basis.

So your completely wrong in your attempt to justify an blatant attack on a civilian populace. Also, Hamas are also wrong in there indiscriminate rocket fire and should stop immediately. So, both side needs to stop firing rockets and attacking civilians, and the Israeli siege also needs to end, and anyone who supports it, are in no position to condemn Hamas imho.

The Israeli siege will end. The Palestinians just need to stop voting for terrorists to govern them and harbouring them.

sid waddell · 23-07-2014 10:27AM

Palestine has the absolute right to defend itself, its citizens and its security against terrorism. What is it supposed to do?

As the only legitimate democracy in the region, Hamas deserves our full support.

Israel remains as committed as ever to the destruction both of Gaza and of Palestine. It has proved this for 66 years. It literally wants to drive the Palestinians into the sea - you might have heard about that incident on the beach last week where four children where bombed to death.

Israel refuses to negotiate, preferring terrorism.

Israel is a theocracy ruled by religious fundamentalist fanatics who believe they are literally God's chosen people. How can you negotiate with people of that kind of mentality?

Until Israel recognises Palestine's right to exist, there can never be peace.

And anyway, why should Palestine negotiate with terrorists? Israel is being armed by other despotic, murderous regimes. These regimes constitute an Axis of Evil.

Why do the people who defend Israel here not also defend Assad's regime in Syria? Why not? Isn't there a clear inconsistency there? Why support one murderous regime but not another?

wes · 23-07-2014 10:31AM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

So the point is they are not war crimes until a court is law says they are.

Again, with the sophistry. You know full well, that a war crime can occur or any crime for that matter, without someone being found guilty in a court of law.

So, again try harder.

bumper234 · 23-07-2014 10:31AM

mad muffin wrote: »

The Israeli siege will end. The Palestinians just need to stop voting for terrorists to govern them and harbouring them.

20 years ago Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Nelson Mandela were all considered to be terrorists by the respective governments of the countries who tried to suppress them.

mad muffin · 23-07-2014 10:33AM

sid waddell wrote: »

Palestine has the absolute right to defend itself, its citizens and its security against terrorism. What is it supposed to do?

As the only legitimate democracy in the region, Hamas deserves our full support.

Israel remains as committed as ever to the destruction both of Gaza and of Palestine. It has proved this for 66 years. It literally wants to drive the Palestinians into the sea - you might have heard about that incident on the beach last week where four children where bombed to death.

Israel refuses to negotiate, preferring terrorism.

Israel is a theocracy ruled by religious fundamentalist fanatics who believe they are literally God's chosen people. How can you negotiate with people of that kind of mentality?

Until Israel recognises Palestine's right to exist, there can never be peace.

And anyway, why should Palestine negotiate with terrorists? Israel is being armed by other despotic, murderous regimes. These regimes constitute an Axis of Evil.

Why do the people who defend Israel here not also defend Assad's regime in Syria? Why not? Isn't there a clear inconsistency there? Why support one murderous regime but not another?

Haha. For reals?!

Yeah, that's really worked out well for Libya.

wes · 23-07-2014 10:35AM

mad muffin wrote: »

And what did Israel do? They established a country under the UN mandate. The Palestinians could have done the same but they wanted it all and wanted the Jews wiped out.

Thats an interesting and one sided version of history. The UN resolution your talking about is General Assembly Resolution 181, which as a general assembly resolution is non-binding.

Secondly, Zionist force immediately grabbed land outside the proposed borders of the partition plan, and also started to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.

mad muffin wrote: »

As it turned out Israel was stronger than all the Arab countries combined.

Actually the 2 military forces were similar in size, and the Zionist forces had better weapons. Your just propagating an tired old myth.

mad muffin wrote: »

Since then they wanted nothing but the total destruction of Israel. Israel are simply defending themselves from said destruction.

Ethnic cleansing, and grabbing as much land as possible are no self defense. Zionist it should be pointed out, were recently arrived European colonists, using an extremist take on the Bible as a land claim.

sid waddell · 23-07-2014 10:37AM

I'll say it again.

Why do the people who support the Israeli regime also not support the Syrian regime?

Why the inconsistency?

I only ask because a common question from supporters of Israel is to ask why supporters of the Palestinian cause aren't demonstrating about every other conflict in the world (and there are a lot).

So if they feel that a fair question to ask, I'll ask, why aren't Israel's supporters out demonstrating in favour of every other murderous regime in the world? Why only Israel?

Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

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