Shocking video of guards in Dublin today

muddypaws · 20-07-2014 12:23AM

geeksauce wrote: »

Blocking a public road would be reason enough for you to be asked to move.

Yes it would, but again, thats not what the poster said, he/she said you move when they tell you, no matter what.

Pwindedd · 20-07-2014 12:24AM

While it was clumsy handling by the guards and unfortunate for the lad having the fit, I really don't think it was particularly shocking. And as for brutality c'mon, that's really stretching it.

geeksauce · 20-07-2014 12:24AM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

According to who, exactly?

Some of course, he is a cousin of those, and a brother of a friend

geeksauce · 20-07-2014 12:25AM

muddypaws wrote: »

Yes it would, but again, thats not what the poster said, he/she said you move when they tell you, no matter what.

Yes if a guard tells you to move you move or get arrested its your right to choose which outcome you prefer

Cienciano · 20-07-2014 12:26AM

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Question was where does the law state that you must move when the Gardai instruct you to move. Despite some people thinking we're all sheep deferring to authority and daring not to have our own opinions in an oh so Irish way. I think we just might have some respect for authority and the law that governs our society and just don't see the need to act like a troublesome cúnt.

There's a difference between fear and respect. Behaviour like that doesn't earn respect. Just a group of protesters that will go home and have confirmed that gardai are arséholes. Behaviour like that breeds contempt and is exactly the opposite of what the gardai should be doing in situations like this.

geeksauce · 20-07-2014 12:27AM

Cienciano wrote: »

There's a difference between fear and respect. Behaviour like that doesn't earn respect. Just a group of protesters that will go home and have confirmed that gardai are arséholes. Behaviour like that breeds contempt and is exactly the opposite of what the gardai should be doing in situations like this.

I tend to disagree and am glad to see the guards moving them out of the way

dharma200 · 20-07-2014 12:28AM

Are any of ye seeing the dudes head in contact with the ground the same as I am or am I seeing things...... ??
I am 100% sure that that is not medically good! and probably not in the manual handling or breakaway technique or restraint manuals anyone might get while in guards college.
I am no doctor but dragging someone like that could kill them. A wee bang in the head is enough to seriously do someone in. Can't imagine why they would move him like that when they obviously had enough manpower to move him correctly, or not move him atall

Twas Not · 20-07-2014 12:30AM

--LOS-- wrote: »

No but they're telling the friends to back off yet they're all stood about watching him have a fit ¬_¬

Who was the lass who kept saying "he's really fit" twink? Looking for a length no doubt !

geeksauce · 20-07-2014 12:30AM

dharma200 wrote: »

Are any of ye seeing the dudes head in contact with the ground the same as I am or am I seeing things...... ??
I am 100% sure that that is not medically good! and probably not in the manual handling or breakaway technique or restraint manuals anyone might get while in guards college.
I am no doctor but dragging someone like that could kill them. A wee bang in the head is enough to seriously do someone in. Can't imagine why they would move him like that when they obviously had enough manpower to move him correctly, or not move him atall

Was his own fault. He could have moved when asked.

asteroids over berlin · 20-07-2014 12:31AM

dharma200 wrote: »

Are any of ye seeing the dudes head in contact with the ground the same as I am or am I seeing things...... ??
I am 100% sure that that is not medically good! and probably not in the manual handling or breakaway technique or restraint manuals anyone might get while in guards college.
I am no doctor but dragging someone like that could kill them. A wee bang in the head is enough to seriously do someone in. Can't imagine why they would move him like that when they obviously had enough manpower to move him correctly, or not move him atall

i would have to agree with this. Bad form and quite dreadful. Obviously the offender in question had done something to warrant the "force" but the Gardai were pathetic here!

Cienciano · 20-07-2014 12:32AM

dharma200 wrote: »

Are any of ye seeing the dudes head in contact with the ground the same as I am or am I seeing things...... ??
I am 100% sure that that is not medically good! and probably not in the manual handling or breakaway technique or restraint manuals anyone might get while in guards college.
I am no doctor but dragging someone like that could kill them. A wee bang in the head is enough to seriously do someone in. Can't imagine why they would move him like that when they obviously had enough manpower to move him correctly, or not move him atall

If the UPS guy delivered my parcel like that I'd be pissed off. Obviously just the gardai saying "we'll show this guy" and decide to teach him a lesson.
It's unnecessary. But having said that, we don't know what went on before it, but it's fairly obvious his head didn't need to be dragged along the ground and the gardai could have avoided it.

Awkward Badger · 20-07-2014 12:33AM

muddypaws wrote: »

If your read that, it doesn't say you have to move when they instruct you to, no matter what the circumstances, they must have good reason, and if you have a reasonable excuse, you can stay put.

You edited, so I will as well. Yes, I agree we should have respect for authority, but also should know our rights and both the public and the Gards should be able to treat each other with respect.

Well what you have is a situation where everyone is all worked up, the protester is refusing to move, the Gardai are trying to move him and it basically all goes to shít.

How I'm looking at it though is that the Gardai have a job to do and they are instructing people to get out of the road. "I want to protest in the middle of the road" isn't a valid reason to be there I don't think. So I think the Gardai were within their rights to instruct him to move and expect him to comply. He refuses, they try to move him again which I think they are entitled to do. He struggles and an unfortunate situation arises with his head being dragged on the ground. I agree the Gardai should have handled it better, there's were enough of them there. But the guy isn't some poor victim here being abused, he put himself in that situation and made it happen by struggling rather than simply moving or allowing himself to be moved.

Its not police brutality, its not us vs the system, the sheep vs the crusties its just one protester acting the clown and a couple Gardai not doing things good enough and you have a guys head being scraped on the ground. One clown, two Gardai who didn't handle him well and a minor unfortunate incident.

dharma200 · 20-07-2014 12:35AM

Wasn't that minor for the guy to be fair.

Padkir · 20-07-2014 12:35AM

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Well what you have is a situation where everyone is all worked up, the protester is refusing to move, the Gardai are trying to move him and it basically all goes to shít.

How I'm looking at it though is that the Gardai have a job to do and they are instructing people to get out of the road. "I want to protest in the middle of the road" isn't a valid reason to be there I don't think. So I think the Gardai were within their rights to instruct him to move and expect him to comply. He refuses, they try to move him again which I think they are entitled to do. He struggles and an unfortunate situation arises with his head being dragged on the ground. I agree the Gardai should have handled it better, there's were enough of them there. But the guy isn't some poor victim here being abused, he put himself in that situation and made it happen by struggling rather than simply moving or allowing himself to be moved.

Its not police brutality, its not us vs the system, the sheep vs the crusties its just one protester acting the clown and a couple Gardai not doing things good enough and you have a guys head being scraped on the ground. One clown, two Gardai who didn't handle him well and a minor unfortunate incident.

End thread.

Tail Docker · 20-07-2014 12:36AM

Pwindedd wrote: »

While it was clumsy handling by the guards and unfortunate for the lad having the fit, I really don't think it was particularly shocking. And as for brutality c'mon, that's really stretching it.

Nip outside, drag your head along the tarmac for 10 meters, wait a bit for the full moreish sensation to kick in, then report back. Don't half-4rse it, really drag your head.

zoe 3619 · 20-07-2014 12:37AM

geeksauce wrote: »

Yes if a guard tells you to move you move or get arrested its your right to choose which outcome you prefer

DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY

20-07-2014 12:37AM

The title of this thread is completely misleading.I put it to the op, if you were a guard,what would you of done on the circumstances?

muddypaws · 20-07-2014 12:37AM

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Well what you have is a situation where everyone is all worked up, the protester is refusing to move, the Gardai are trying to move him and it basically all goes to shít.

How I'm looking at it though is that the Gardai have a job to do and they are instructing people to get out of the road. "I want to protest in the middle of the road" isn't a valid reason to be there I don't think. So I think the Gardai were within their rights to instruct him to move and expect him to comply. He refuses, they try to move him again which I think they are entitled to do. He struggles and an unfortunate situation arises with his head being dragged on the ground. I agree the Gardai should have handled it better, there's were enough of them there. But the guy isn't some poor victim here being abused, he put himself in that situation and made it happen by struggling rather than simply moving or allowing himself to be moved.

Its not police brutality, its not us vs the system, the sheep vs the crusties its just one protester acting the clown and a couple Gardai not doing things good enough and you have a guys head being scraped on the ground. One clown, two Gardai who didn't handle him well and a minor unfortunate incident.

You're right, I was answering another poster about not having to move without good reason, not necessarily talking about this situation today.

Whilst the Gardai should be well trained, and I'd hope they are, they are still human beings, and deal with a lot of stressful situations every day. With the best will in the world, sometimes that stress may overtake cool professionalism. I've never had any issues with the Gards, probably because I give them respect, so I also receive it.

Joe Exotic · 20-07-2014 12:37AM

just re-looked at video his head is in contact with ground for about 4 seconds

From about 26 sec (hard to say exactly but this is roughly when the guard looses his grip after the guy kicks out) until sec 30 when the guards stop moving him repick him up and move him again

They move him on a bit and then put him down and seam to be talking to him at sec 53 the women says he is going to have " a fit now in a minute"

Thats as far as i can see

Couple of points

1.Whats happening in Israel/Palestine is a disgrace.

2. You are most certainly entitled to protest in this country and i love the fact people actively do this, very important democratic right!

3. You are however NOT entitled to break the law during that process

4.If you do break the law. The guards are entitled/obliged to stop you using a level of force within reason including removing you from the scene.

5. if you resist this the consequences are ,again within reason, your own responsibility

5. 4 seconds contact with the road until the guards noticed is hardly an unreasonable use of force by the guards considering it was unintentional and he was kicking out.

6. As for his epilepsy, its his illness fair play to him for not letting it hold him back, but again this is his responsibility for his own choices which he freely made

7. While the above points should be true generally we don't see what happened before the video - maybe he wasn't breaking the law, but on the balance of it i suspect that in all probability he was

LuckyLloyd · 20-07-2014 12:39AM

Not a regular on these threads on AH, but from watching that video it seems fairly clear that life will be very awkward for the Gards involved should the young man choose to make a complaint.

crockholm · 20-07-2014 12:40AM

From what I can see,the protester is dragged only about 5 feet intermittently on the road,much of this is because the Garda in the leather pants didn't have a good hold on the fellah, with my ex-bouncer hat on I would say that it is extremly straining when you have to frog march someone,moreso when the other guy doesnt have a good grip on the marchee.

So while obviously not text book, I'm with the Gardai on this one.

dharma200 · 20-07-2014 12:42AM

droidman123 wrote: »

The title of this thread is completely misleading.I put it to the op, if you were a guard,what would you of done on the circumstances?

I innocently thought the guards were trained, as anyone else who works in a sector where people have to be restrained, in the safest best practise to restrain. for in stance those working in the prison service or mental health institutions, there is a way to manually handle people, and evidently this so not it, I don't think anyone can actually say, good job lads on that, very proffessional.
I would have utilised the atleast six other colleagues that were standing around and ensured he was carried off in the way I should have been trained to carry him off.

Slippin Jimmy · 20-07-2014 12:47AM

The person with the foreign accent certainly did not help the situation. I don't think it was police brutality. They did their best to help him, but that's not good enough for some people.

InReality · 20-07-2014 12:49AM

Wonder if his fit triggered by his treatment ?
Would you head off to a protest if you knew it could cause you to have a fit like that ?

He was kicking at the guard as well as he was dragged off , that could easily have injured the guard.

So I'd be mostly on the guard's side.
Those bike guards - like the one that was half carrying yer man - tend to be a bit too arrogant.
In the US/UK yer man could easily have died given the rough treatment you see there.

20-07-2014 12:51AM

dharma200 wrote: »

I innocently thought the guards were trained, as anyone else who works in a sector where people have to be restrained, in the safest best practise to restrain. for in stance those working in the prison service or mental health institutions, there is a way to manually handle people, and evidently this so not it, I don't think anyone can actually say, good job lads on that, very proffessional.
I would have utilised the atleast six other colleagues that were standing around and ensured he was carried off in the way I should have been trained to carry him off.

That is a very blinkered view.it wasn't a black and white situation.there was a protest going on,on a public street.the guy put himself in danger lying on a public road.priority had to be to remove the guy from the road.if the guy hadn't had an epilectic fit,the who!e situation wouldn't be blown out of proportion as it is.the guards did there job and obviously couldn't have for seen the guy having a fit.I don't see anything "shocking" about that video.

Negative_G · 20-07-2014 12:54AM

The melodramatic commentary in this video is perhaps the most cringeworthy I've heard.

I think it's fair to say the Gardai involved probably could have handled this specific incident (although as per usual we don't see the footage leading up to it) a bit better in hindsight. Always easier said than done

To label it as 'brutality' is laughable really.

The Guards job is difficult enough as it is without having morons shouting in their ears and sticking cameras in their faces. A simple instruction to clear the road in a prompt manner was not adhered to and it's unfortunate the man had a seizure.

Perhaps he might elect to give protests a miss in future or else not kick out at the Gardai when he is being forcibly moved.

gctest50 · 20-07-2014 12:55AM

InReality wrote: »

Wonder if his fit triggered by his treatment ?
Would you head off to a protest if you knew it could cause you to have a fit like that ?
.......

it'd be easy for someone to lay off their medication beforehand and make themselves more prone to a fit

bilko47 · 20-07-2014 12:55AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah they were like totally blocking the guys trying to film it on their phones.:rolleyes:

Trying to do a hard enough job ya mean

bilko47 · 20-07-2014 12:58AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They clearly weren't trying to drag him along the ground. It's fairly obvious they tried to pick him up and carry him, but he was throwing himself around the place and trying to kick out.

He was doing a christy brown impression

Slippin Jimmy · 20-07-2014 01:00AM

bilko47 wrote: »

He was doing a christy brown impression

That is a horrendous comment to make.

Shocking video of guards in Dublin today

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