Beef General Thread

I said · 19-07-2014 12:11PM

+1

farawaygrass · 19-07-2014 12:18PM

the way i see it with movements is that when you hear you are allowed 4 movements its actually 4 owners. the first owner is the breeder and then you can sell three times.
ye are also correct in saying going to the mart is a movement, and then the buyers herd is another movement, but as i said it the owners that count so that sale would only go down as one change of owner.
sure by right all the lads showing cattle at shows, tullamore and the like have to notify the department about the movement. so it would be a movement out of your farm to the show and a movement back in again in the evening. mabye there is a limit on movements too, i never heard, but it has to be high and nowhere near 4.

simx · 19-07-2014 12:21PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I see virtually no mart where dealers are under control. If you look along the west coast if a farmer from 80 miles away comes to buy the dealers will try to bully him off cattle, by bidding to above local value and even above market value. This may seem great to sellers on the day but unless he can come back to these marts 3-4 times then it continues. When the dealers know that they cannot bully him it then returns to local prices.

Multiple movements suited the dealers as they could offload anything even though they added no value. it is grand selling in a mart finished cattle if you have 2-3 bidding however I seldom see finished cattle make more in the mart than the factory.

its only the odd time i see finished cattle make more in mart than factory and its all a polling match between two rivals

I said · 19-07-2014 12:26PM

Dealers have it down to a fine art for buying finished stock at mart

larrymiller · 19-07-2014 12:28PM

I said wrote: »

Dealers have it down to a fine art for buying finished stock at mart

To right they do. They know exactly when to walk away

Farmer Pudsey · 19-07-2014 12:31PM

jdmurf wrote: »

The mart is not counted as an owner... when the auction is over the animal transfers from seller to buyer never becoming property of the mart.

Marts have been known to be left with cattle when the next bid after the RSJ at the back failed to materialise. Look it pretty simple in a mart look at number of owners and you see the situtation. However private buying is a minefield and there needs to be a punishment for those that fail to sing the baks of cards or under represent number of movements on same.

However of much more importance is that only 20% of cattle get QA. So it is not all it is cracked up to be. The gap between the price of an R- and a O- animal is 36c/kg. So lads on about difference in price between suckler and dairy bred cattle often look at R- to U- which is only 12c/kg.

If cattle quality fall to P= factory's again hit cattle with another 30-50c/kg. Cattle of this quality (O= and under) are hard to finish under 30 months so another 10c/kg.

I said · 19-07-2014 01:20PM

I have a few here that won't finish under 30 months stick weight on them and normally leave till 36 months and take the penalties as opposed to other way round all the same anyway.at the moment factories are paying as much for overage as underage always the same when supplies tighten.

Willfarman · 19-07-2014 01:31PM

Muckit wrote: »

That's only sh*t talk lad. They are not all one mans costs. What about all the deductions on the factory kill sheet?

Lads are foolish if they think marts don't have a place in beef. They are the only place that you will get the true price for your stock. You are guaranteed your money what's more. I have no problem with mart fees. The cost is more than recouped by getting the right market price for your animal in the first place.

I'd encourage all farmers, especially small farmers with small numbers to sell all their cattle, especially factory fit cattle through their local mart. Don't get caught up with movements QA etc. It's a load of balls to try tie you up in a knot.

And don't you be worrying about how the buyer can afford to pay you that amount for your cattle when you wouldn't get the colour of it if you booked them in yourself. There seems to be a two tier system. And that's ok by me now that I know it. It's one price for the small guy and another for the big guy.

You don't get that sh*t going on in a mart.

No it's not one mans cost. Nowhere did I say so.
And I agree if you have to sell before finish the mart is the place to do so.
However I can see no sense in any animal under 30 months old needing to be bought and sold more than 3 times.
I see no sense in bringing factory fit cattle to the mart.

Maybe things are different in other parts of the country but locally here the demand is best for QA assured young cattle. And if you are bringing cattle to the mart that are beyond the reach of farmers don't expect to find a fool among the factory agents.
They don't bid against each other. They just divide them between them.

blue5000 · 19-07-2014 02:04PM

I'm just wondering is there much of a future for marts if 4 moves comes in for QA? As it is don't cattle have to be on the farm for 70 days before slaughter to qualify QA?

I wonder will there ever be a premium from supermarkets for cattle that go from farm of birth straight to slaughter, is that one movement?

rangler1 · 19-07-2014 02:08PM

blue5000 wrote: »

I'm just wondering is there much of a future for marts if 4 moves comes in for QA? As it is don't cattle have to be on the farm for 70 days before slaughter to qualify QA?

I wonder will there ever be a premium from supermarkets for cattle that go from farm of birth straight to slaughter, is that one movement?

I think that Scottish Angus, which is the highest priced beef in the world apart from Wagyu. has that requirement.

Kovu · 19-07-2014 02:08PM

blue5000 wrote: »

I'm just wondering is there much of a future for marts if 4 moves comes in for QA? As it is don't cattle have to be on the farm for 70 days before slaughter to qualify QA?

I wonder will there ever be a premium from supermarkets for cattle that go from farm of birth straight to slaughter, is that one movement?

Is there a difference in the 70 days if it's a QA farm to QA farm private movement?

Willfarman · 19-07-2014 02:11PM

.Kovu. wrote: »

Is there a difference in the 70 days if it's a QA farm to QA farm private movement?

No the animal has to be in your herd for 70 days regardless of it origin.

blue5000 · 19-07-2014 02:24PM

I reckon the reason it has to be 70 days is for drug withdrawal period. I think ivomec super type drugs have 66 days withdrawal. If I gave an animal ivomec, then sold it in the mart after a week, the buyer has no way of knowing that the animal isn't fit for slaughter until 60 days after buying it. I'm just using ivomec as an example fluke doses could be longer.

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 03:00PM

Ah lads isn't good to get a sensible beef discussion going with a lot if the regulars ,

whelan2 · 19-07-2014 03:06PM

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon the reason it has to be 70 days is for drug withdrawal period. I think ivomec super type drugs have 66 days withdrawal. If I gave an animal ivomec, then sold it in the mart after a week, the buyer has no way of knowing that the animal isn't fit for slaughter until 60 days after buying it. I'm just using ivomec as an example fluke doses could be longer.

am i right in saying that if you buy in an animal you have no way of knowing any of its previous treatments? With all the record keeping we have should it not be available to the new owner what withdrawal period they'e under?

simx · 19-07-2014 03:15PM

.Kovu. wrote: »

Is there a difference in the 70 days if it's a QA farm to QA farm private movement?

Factory I deal with sometimes won't penalize if you don't have 70 days in your herd so long as in last herd for 70 days and it was a QA herd

blue5000 · 19-07-2014 03:37PM

Charliebull wrote: »

Ah lads isn't good to get a sensible beef discussion going with a lot if the regulars ,

We should make it so that only ppl with >1000 posts (with current user name) can post in it:D

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 03:39PM

blue5000 wrote: »

We should make it so that only ppl with >1000 posts (with current user name) can post in it:D

Lol us new lads are out so,

moy83 · 19-07-2014 03:46PM

Charliebull wrote: »

Ah lads isn't good to get a sensible beef discussion going with a lot if the regulars ,

Yup its a good thread Charlie , fair play . I can see it geeting plenty of use .
What difference to the beef on the plate does the 70 days or less than 4 movements actually have ? It would be better swapped for longer hanging times to mature the meat better in the factories IMO

blue5000 · 19-07-2014 03:47PM

Your nearly half way there:pac:,

Anyway bit of self moderation, how are cattle thriving at grass this summer, any body weigh yet? Have a bunch of yearling heifers that were very slow to lose winter coats, and to my eye weren't thriving. Did a few bloods and low in Iodine, also some stomach worms present in the FEC. Started putting iodine in their water last week. Will dose them again this coming week.

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 04:15PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Your nearly half way there:pac:,

Anyway bit of self moderation, how are cattle thriving at grass this summer, any body weigh yet? Have a bunch of yearling heifers that were very slow to lose winter coats, and to my eye weren't thriving. Did a few bloods and low in Iodine, also some stomach worms present in the FEC. Started putting iodine in their water last week. Will dose them again this coming week.

What dose are you using blue,

blue5000 · 19-07-2014 04:21PM

Charliebull wrote: »

What dose are you using blue,

Cheapie ivermectin, injection.

micky mouse · 19-07-2014 05:03PM

simx wrote: »

Factory I deal with sometimes won't penalize if you don't have 70 days in your herd so long as in last herd for 70 days and it was a QA herd

yeah that's it.get away at 20/30 days something like that as long as previous owner qa.number of days also varies from factory to factory

Willfarman · 19-07-2014 05:11PM

Cattle are doing a great thrive this summer here. I see no honest hungry stores in the mart all year.

greysides · 19-07-2014 05:27PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Cheapie ivermectin, injection.

I hear a few reports locally of less than satisfactory results from using cheap ivomecs. I say 'cheap' as most forms of it used are probably not the original, that's all. But it's making me wary of recommending them. They've been used so much, for so long, I'm getting worried.

simx · 19-07-2014 05:46PM

micky mouse wrote: »

yeah that's it.get away at 20/30 days something like that as long as previous owner qa.number of days also varies from factory to factory

Yeah another factory I have went to want them in your herd 21 days if out of another QA herd, factory I'm killing in next week won't penalize so long as I'm in QA, don't matter about past owner in QA or not or how many days I have them, strange how one factory can differ towards the next

moy83 · 19-07-2014 05:50PM

greysides wrote: »

I hear a few reports locally of less than satisfactory results from using cheap ivomecs. I say 'cheap' as most forms of it used are probably not the original, that's all. But it's making me wary of recommending them. They've been used so much, for so long, I'm getting worried.

Whats the next step for doses if immunity to them starts happening ?

greysides · 19-07-2014 05:58PM

moy83 wrote: »

Whats the next step for doses if immunity to them starts happening ?

Switch family of dose for an individual.
Panic, for an industry and then combination doses (two or more ingredients targeting the same worms) as per Australia.

Farmer Pudsey · 19-07-2014 06:27PM

greysides wrote: »

I hear a few reports locally of less than satisfactory results from using cheap ivomecs. I say 'cheap' as most forms of it used are probably not the original, that's all. But it's making me wary of recommending them. They've been used so much, for so long, I'm getting worried.

There is absolutly no difference between generic medicines and sprays and branded products the same a human medicines. Biggest issue is under dosing. Even though generics are cheap you still get lads to mean to dose. Other issue is moving to new pasture after dosing. However this makes no difference with ivermectins as there is a two week gap.

Biggest issue with immunity is pourons as if it is wet or cattle are licking themselves adequate amount of pouron may not be going into the animal system

greysides · 19-07-2014 06:32PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There is absolutely no difference between generic medicines and sprays and branded products the same a human medicines.

That might not always be the case. There's a lot in a medicine other than the active ingredient and these things can affect the overall result.

Anyhow, that wasn't the point of the post. Keep be aware that there may be problems coming with the over-use of the avermectin family.

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