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Those damn cyclists again!

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Comments

  • #872
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    looking_around wrote: »
    I'm not sure about your point here? (can't see the vid on my phone.)

    I was on the right hand lane, as I was going through to the 3rd exist of the roundabout.

    The guy who overtook me was on the left lane and turned into the right lane straight in front of me. Then randonly slammed the breaks. He was clearly in the wrong. If he needed to be in the right hand lane, he should've stayed behind me, and put up with going through the roundabout a little slower.

    My point was that motorists, in many cases, don't know how to use roundabouts........even when there's pretty big arrows on the road.


  • #873
    paulheu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭paulheu


    Being a cyclist myself I can tell you I will take my rightful space on the road. In general I find if I keep close to the curb in general drivers will pull up as close as they can and also most drivers have absolutely no sense of traffic around them. If I come up to a traffic light or corner and a driver passes me more often then not he/she will pull up all the way left basically blocking my path while they just passed me and so should be aware I am coming up behind.

    Also when I am passing another cyclist I will look back twice, try and make eye contact with oncoming drivers, signal en then pass. very frequently I will get an earful and/or a honking driver who obviously is not driving safely as with everything I have done to make it extremely obvious I am going to do what I am doing AND give them ample time to anticipate it they still seem to be surprised by it.

    The notion of cyclists paying roadtax is plain ridiculous with the awful and dangerous state of the roads here close to the curb. Often you HAVE to move to the middle as the amount of hols, cracks and other obstacles are just plain unsafe.

    And don't get started on cycling lanes, I encounter drivers taking a left who basically move all the way up the curb ignoring the lane completely.

    I'm a Dutch native and have spent decades in Amsterdam where the amount of cyclists is far greater. Out there drivers are aware of cyclists and there is a mutual understanding of what cyclists can encounter.

    I will always claim my space on the road and be very expressive and obvious in my movements, I've seen some cyclists behaving very insecure and yes, that will lead to dangerous situations but from my perspective the general attitude of Irish driver towards other traffic, especially slower is just plain stupid, dangerous and shows a lack of awareness which is sometimes frighting.


  • #874
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Jawgap wrote: »
    My point was that motorists, in many cases, don't know how to use roundabouts........even when there's pretty big arrows on the road.

    Oh right, I wasn't too sure from the way you worded your post.


  • #875
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    Time to do so is important. Having signs at the roadworks is too late, we do see signs today about a mile out.

    Sudden road conditions are just that.

    Everyone using the roads should ideally be aware of what all this means, and what it means to your survival as road user and what extra danger one is in becsue of these conditions.

    Doesn't change my point, about NOT overtaking close to a cyclist but taking due space and consideration of the cyclist. (ie USE the right hand lane, just like you would when overtaking a car. Not safe to use that lane? well wait and be patient.
    Chances are the cyclist will move out of the way if/when they can, most don't want a car driving behind them, anyway.)


  • #876
    paulheu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭paulheu


    Jawgap wrote: »
    My point was that motorists, in many cases, don't know how to use roundabouts........even when there's pretty big arrows on the road.

    Very true, the number of times I cycle up to a roundabout with an exit lane for the fist exit which will make me move to the right lane. When coming on to the roundabout I then find the car on my left does not exit and comes across me. Too many drivers seem unaware a cyclist, especially on a sports bike will generally be away and ahead most of the time so there's a serious and dangerous situation there.. And obviously the driver always feels the need to honk or screen at you as if you are the idiot..

    Also the rules on roundabouts here are IMO just plain stupid, back home in The Netherlands you ONLY signal when exiting the roundabout so as long as you are not signalling you are showing intend to stay on the roundabout. Here drivers should signal right when on the roundabout and left when exiting but often they do not signal at all (or signal left at the very last moment) which is so dangerous.


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  • #877
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    looking_around wrote: »
    Chances are the cyclist will move out of the way if/when they can, most don't want a car driving behind them, anyway.)

    I'll give you that, today the saturation of traffic ensures that another vehicle WILL be approaching rather than possibly, so in a lot of the narrow road situations I encounter, I do just saddle in behind them and shrug along, I'm driving a diesel jeep so it's easier for me to do that than a lean running petrol engine that might actually cut out.

    I find they tend to stop and wave me on, not that I want them to do that either. But.


  • #878
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    I'll give you that, today the saturation of traffic ensures that another vehicle WILL be approaching rather than possibly, so in a lot of the narrow road situations I encounter, I do just saddle in behind them and shrug along, I'm driving a diesel jeep so it's easier for me to do that than a lean running petrol engine that might actually cut out.

    I find they tend to stop and wave me on, not that I want them to do that either. But.

    And yet people overtake tractors all the time.

    Still doesn't change my point about when choosing to overtake a cyclist, do so correctly and safely.


  • #879
    Mec-a-nic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭Mec-a-nic


    paulheu wrote: »
    In general I find if I keep close to the curb in general drivers will pull up as close as they can and also most drivers have absolutely no sense of traffic around them.

    This - I was knocked off my bike yesterday while passing slow traffic on the left - the driver drifted into the curb and cut me off because he was unconsciously trying to 'avoid' a LUAS that was passing him in the next lane. Drivers - trams run on rails and won't change lanes ya damn muppets!
    paulheu wrote: »
    If I come up to a traffic light or corner and a driver passes me more often then not he/she will pull up all the way left basically blocking my path while they just passed me and so should be aware I am coming up behind.
    This too - I think a lot of drivers are completely unaware of other other road users unless they puncture their little bubble. I do drive when required, and one of the best pieces of advice given to me by a friend (who raced cars competitively) was - after you overtake someone, make sure you know exactly where they are before you manoeuvre...


  • #880
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    looking_around wrote: »
    And yet people overtake tractors all the time.

    Still doesn't change my point about when choosing to overtake a cyclist, do so correctly and safely.

    Obstinacy gets one killed.

    One day we might meet, I expect you to dive out of my way, and you CHOOSE to stay there because you are entitled to be there, so be it, it's in the hands of physics.

    I was a great cyclist and have been a professional driver until recently, now, semi retired on medical grounds, I chose to spend my money on a jeep, I drive it defensively. I care about me first and my wife.


  • #881
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    Obstinacy gets one killed.

    One day we might meet, I expect you to dive out of my way, and you CHOOSE to stay there because you are entitled to be there, so be it, it's in the hands of physics.

    I was a great cyclist and have been a professional driver until recently, now, semi retired on medical grounds, I chose to spend my money on a jeep, I drive it defensively. I care about me first and my wife.

    Drive defensively? Are you afraid of cyclists in your Jeep?

    You should have your licence revoked.


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  • #882
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Drive defensively? Are you afraid of cyclists in your Jeep?

    You should have your licence revoked.

    Are you a driver sir? Have you gone through formal training and attained a pass certificate?


  • #883
    dubscottie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 854 ✭✭✭dubscottie


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Just about every time I drive the M1 I always see at least one motorcyclist go between vehicles to overtake - cars travelling in excess of 100 km/hr and these idiots go between them??

    Some cyclists do illegal and inconsiderate things, but this has to be the most idiotic manoeuvre consistently seen on Irish roads.

    Which brings us back to an earlier point, you'll find idiots in all classes of road users........they are not confined to bicycles.

    EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I think it's hilarious that motorcyclists are held up as models of road traffic law compliance...........they clearly skip over those bits of road traffic law and the RotR that apply to bus lanes!

    Yeah right.. Traffic being able to go 100kph on Irelands longest carpark :rolleyes:

    You do know that filtering through traffic by motorbikes is not illegal in Ireland right?

    And that the Garda turn a blind eye to motorbikes using bus lanes? (It is unofficial policy according to a traffic cop I was speaking to..as long as you don't act the maggot)

    Have had Garda cars/bikes behind me on a daily basis in the bus lane of the N11. Never pulled once in 9 years.


  • #884
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    Obstinacy gets one killed.

    One day we might meet, I expect you to dive out of my way, and you CHOOSE to stay there because you are entitled to be there, so be it, it's in the hands of physics.

    I was a great cyclist and have been a professional driver until recently, now, semi retired on medical grounds, I chose to spend my money on a jeep, I drive it defensively. I care about me first and my wife.

    WHY would you expect me to dive out of YOUR way? why should I have to dive anywhere?
    You are in the wrong if you don't overtake correctly and would be the one in my way.

    From experience and from what you say professional driver means nothing of safety/skill. Lorry and Van drivers are some of the worst in my experience.

    And it's not in the hands of physics, it;s in the hands of law. More and more cyclists carry a cam attached to their bike. I do too. Because of people like you.

    Its UK but the same rules apply, see the image?
    https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169


    Another link http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.ie/p/overtaking-cyclists.html It;s exactly the same rules in Ireland.

    It's really not complicated or difficult. But the amount of drivers who don't overtake correctly, is frightening. And more, that some of ye drivers defend dangerous driving! My god, what are ye on!


  • #885
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    dubscottie wrote: »
    Have had Garda cars/bikes behind me on a daily basis in the bus lane of the N11. Never pulled once in 9 years.

    The law is not enforced equally, nor imo, should it be so.

    I've little concern for cyclists running red lights myself, they are a potential threat gone for me. And whilst it is annoying behaviour a lot of that cyclist do is to make progress.

    Let them off. I say.


  • #886
    dubscottie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 854 ✭✭✭dubscottie


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    The law is not enforced equally, nor imo, should it be so.

    I've little concern for cyclists running red lights myself, they are a potential threat gone for me. And whilst it is annoying behaviour a lot of that cyclist do is to make progress.

    Let them off. I say.

    I have a lot of concern for cyclists running red lights. Especially when I am crossing the road on a green man, but the same should happen to cyclists as what would happen to me if, the second the green man came on, I fired through the lights on my Motorbike..


  • #887
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    looking_around wrote: »
    WHY would you expect me to dive out of YOUR way? why should I have to dive anywhere?

    I'll personally write your epitaph on your tombstone. "Yer cannay change the laws of physics Jim"

    You sir are free to do as you like. Too many are already paying the ultimate penalty, and it's not points on licenses.

    Get your mental health in balance, laws are not a shield that protects you, you, the victim, suffers, you, the victim are never repaid by insurance handouts or prison sentences for the offender, the money will be spent and the offender released, you, as the victim, you suffer for ever.


  • #888
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    I'll personally write your epitaph on your tombstone. "Yer cannay change the laws of physics Jim"

    You sir are free to do as you like. Too many are already paying the ultimate penalty, and it's not points on licenses.

    Get your mental health in balance, laws are not a shield that protects you, you, the victim, suffers, you, the victim are never repaid by insurance handouts or prison sentences for the offender, the money will be spent and the offender released, you, as the victim, you suffer for ever.

    And I do get out of the way, my point is, why should I have to?
    Forcing another road users into a dangerous spot is despicable. And I can't believe you're still defending it.

    I'll not feed you no more.


  • #889
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    Are you a driver sir? Have you gone through formal training and attained a pass certificate?

    Yes. But I'm not a reckless driver.


  • #890
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    I'll personally write your epitaph on your tombstone. "Yer cannay change the laws of physics Jim"

    You sir are free to do as you like. Too many are already paying the ultimate penalty, and it's not points on licenses.

    Get your mental health in balance, laws are not a shield that protects you, you, the victim, suffers, you, the victim are never repaid by insurance handouts or prison sentences for the offender, the money will be spent and the offender released, you, as the victim, you suffer for ever.

    You are a reckless driver.
    I hope you get banned and your licence revoked.


  • #891
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    You are a reckless driver.
    I hope you get banned and your licence revoked.

    His Boards licence? Lol. I'm alright with bicyclists till they start the two abreast shyte. Get in a line, ffs. If all the cars started driving two abreast for a chat through the windows, ye bicyclicists wouldn't be long getting huffy.


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  • #892
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    looking_around wrote: »
    I'll not feed you no more.

    Lessons in death are permanent.

    I am not the grim reaper, but I have seen first hand, on too many occasions what he does.

    A lot of the time, people did nothing to avoid the accident.

    Think what you like, think defense, think escape ~ the way they are building roads today, they are denying all escape, one is guaranteed to crash.

    Cheers, and all the best.


  • #893
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Yes. But I'm not a reckless driver.

    Why then did your good self question me on defensive driving?


  • #894
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    His Boards licence? Lol. I'm alright with bicyclists till they start the two abreast shyte. Get in a line, ffs. If all the cars started driving two abreast for a chat through the windows, ye bicyclicists wouldn't be long getting huffy.

    Please PLEASE read http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.ie/p/overtaking-cyclists.html

    And see why two abreast makes 0 difference to overtaking and why it should not p!ss you off.


  • #895
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    Why then did your good self question me on defensive driving?

    I didn't


  • #896
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    I questioned your disturbing notion that reckless driving is defensive and that reckless and aggressive behaviour towards cyclists is defensive.

    To quote your post:
    stinacy gets one killed.

    One day we might meet, I expect you to dive out of my way, and you CHOOSE to stay there because you are entitled to be there, so be it, it's in the hands of physics.

    I was a great cyclist and have been a professional driver until recently, now, semi retired on medical grounds, I chose to spend my money on a jeep, I drive it defensively. I care about me first and my wife.

    -

    Is driving a Jeep aggressively and recklessly against a cyclist defensive driving?


  • #897
    dubscottie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 854 ✭✭✭dubscottie


    looking_around wrote: »
    Please PLEASE read http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.ie/p/overtaking-cyclists.html

    And see why two abreast makes 0 difference to overtaking and why it should not p!ss you off.

    Thats the UK though.. Again.. 1.5 meters is a recommendation! Not a legal requirement!

    Its when you come across two abreast as they are climbing a hill and there is a Q of 15 other vehicles behind them, unable to overtake due to the twisting nature of the road. That is what pisses people off. (and it is illegal in that situation to ride two abreast.. Read the RTA)


  • #898
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    I think you misunderstand defensive and aggressive.

    They are not the same thing. They are polar opposites.

    You think that aggression is defensive when it's not. A kill em before they kill you attitude is not defensive. It's aggressive.


  • #899
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    dubscottie wrote: »
    Thats the UK though..

    Its when you come across two abreast as they are climbing a hill and there is a Q of 15 other vehicles behind them, unable to overtake due to the twisting nature of the road. That is what pisses people off. (and it is illegal in that situation to ride two abreast.. Read the RTA)

    It is never illegal to ride two abreast in this country. You don't know what you're talking about.


  • #900
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Is driving a Jeep aggressively and recklessly against a cyclist defensive driving?

    Not if I am driving it, no.

    Aggressively is one thing
    Recklessly is another
    Defensively is yet another.

    I've already asked if I'm addressing fellow licensed and trained motor vehicle drivers.

    I don't think I am addressing trained personnel.


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  • #901
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    Not if I am driving it, no.

    Aggressively is one thing
    Recklessly is another
    Defensively is yet another.

    I've already asked if I'm addressing fellow licensed and trained motor vehicle drivers.

    I don't think I am addressing trained personnel.

    I'm sorry mate but if you plough into a cyclist because you presume he's just going to get out of your way then you're a reckless driver.

    End of.


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