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Garda ''pubic attitude survey''

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Comments

  • #62
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    coolemon wrote: »
    Correct. And I did so without inferring a particular chronological relationship in the decision making process or of improvement or disimprovement over time.

    It is you that is trying to make such inferences.

    Not really. Such an inference would require more information than two examples.

    Now you're just talking nonsense. If something in 2014 is managed better than something in 2013 then that is an improvement, chronologically or otherwise. No inference needed. It's a fact.


  • #63
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It really shouldn't matter what the public think. The force should be effective and professional. That's all that matters.
    Well those are 2 issues that people have the opportunity to comment on in the poll.


  • #64
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Maphisto wrote: »
    So someone has to come up with something else, either winning that consent back or .....

    You're presuming that the consent has been lost. It hasn't been.

    Unless we're going to consult and follow the recommendations of criminals, which I'm sure you're not suggesting.


  • #65
    coolemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭coolemon


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Now you're just talking nonsense. If something in 2014 is managed better than something in 2013 then that is an improvement, chronologically or otherwise. No inference needed. It's a fact.

    Comparatively, and taking these events in isolation, it could be seen that "one is an improvement over the other". But that would be an essentially useless conclusion to make outside of these two isolated examples in that inferences of changes over time in garda management systems, decision making processes and garda resource management cannot be made in a broader sense or with any reliability given the sparse information.

    It would be as useful as comparing a demonstration in Nepal to one in Dublin. Neither of which can be construed as indicative of broader patterns of police resource management during demonstrations in Nepal or Dublin.

    Such inferences can only be made through a study of numerous demonstrations, and of those sampled demonstrations over time.


  • #66
    The Domonator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭The Domonator


    I've never had a problem with the Guards, I've always found them to be pleasant and helpful. But having said that, I'm not a law breaking skag so maybe I'm biased.


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  • #67
    Maphisto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Maphisto


    Maphisto wrote: »
    Except AGS is largely unarmed. I think they all have pepper spray and batons but other than that they police by consent.

    So if the majority of people don't trust police, or don't agree with its methods and objectives they have a problem with the consent model. So someone has to come up with something else, either winning that consent back or .....

    catallus wrote: »
    You're presuming that the consent has been lost. It hasn't been.

    Unless we're going to consult and follow the recommendations of criminals, which I'm sure you're not suggesting.

    I think I said "if" it has been lost. How do we know it has or has not without asking?


  • #68
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    Well those are 2 issues that people have the opportunity to comment on in the poll.

    But what people think the level of professionalism and effectiveness is is irrelevant. Those standards should be judged by actual statistics. Crime rates and conviction rates.
    coolemon wrote: »
    Comparatively, and taking these events in isolation, it could be seen that "one is an improvement over the other". But that would be an essentially useless conclusion to make outside of these two isolated examples in that inferences of changes over time in garda management systems, decision making processes and garda resource management cannot be made in a broader sense or with any reliability given the sparse information.

    It would be as useful as comparing a demonstration in Nepal to one in Dublin. Neither of which can be construed as indicative of broader patterns of police resource management during demonstrations in Nepal or Dublin.

    Such inferences can only be made through a study of numerous demonstrations, and of those sampled demonstrations over time.

    Right so the two isolated examples you used to back up your claim are useless in isolation. I think I see where you are coming from now. Forgive me if I don't play this game anymore.


  • #69
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Maphisto wrote: »
    I think I said "if" it has been lost. How do we know it has or has not without asking?

    We know because that's the way it has been since the inception of the state and there has been no perceivable civil unrest against the police.

    All the rest is just public-relations, which is nonsense.


  • #70
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    But what people think the level of professionalism and effectiveness is is irrelevant. Those standards should be judged by actual statistics. Crime rates and conviction rates.


    Right so the two isolated examples you used to back up your claim are useless in isolation. I think I see where you are coming from now. Forgive me if I don't play this game anymore.

    It sounds as though you're unwilling to see anything positive in it and just basically want to criticise, as I said, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.


  • #71
    Maphisto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Maphisto


    catallus wrote: »
    We know because that's the way it has been since the inception of the state and there has been no perceivable civil unrest against the police.

    Right well if you wait until people are petrol bombing garda stations you have a huge task in ever getting that confidence back, if you ever can.
    All the rest is just public-relations, which is nonsense.

    Its an opinion which you're perfectly entitled to hold.


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  • #72
    coolemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭coolemon


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Right so the two isolated examples you used to back up your claim are useless in isolation. I think I see where you are coming from now. Forgive me if I don't play this game anymore.

    They are useless to infer changes 'over time', - for which you are trying to do.

    The demonstration last year however is an example of garda mismanagement and of a waste of resources. We can infer it was a waste of resources by comparing it to the most recent demonstration I cited and gave a comparison of.

    That was my point.

    Instead you went off on a tangent trying to make inferences about changes to police practices based only upon two events over time. Completely illogical.


  • #73
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Maphisto wrote: »
    Right well if you wait until people are petrol bombing garda stations you have a huge task in ever getting that confidence back, if you ever can.

    That's the democratic risk inherent in consensual policing.

    Undermining the legitimacy of the police (and all the operational exigencies that are necessary when dealing with the dirty things they have to deal with) by citing academic circlejerking is wrong.


  • #74
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    It sounds as though you're unwilling to see anything positive in it and just basically want to criticise, as I said, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    There is no positive aspect of it that will make the organisation more effective or professional. It is all about appearances, nothing substantive.


  • #75
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    The Domonator wrote: »
    I've never had a problem with the Guards, I've always found them to be pleasant and helpful. But having said that, I'm not a law breaking skag so maybe I'm biased.

    Possibly. You don't have to be a lawbreaker to have issues with the way some of them conduct themselves. The Met are just as bad, if not worse.


  • #76
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Only ever had one bad experience with a gobby copper. I was out minding my own business, good night and all. Out all day with the lads, drank a fair few pints.

    This copper starts to give me lip cos I was taking a pee down a side street. I informed him it was my civil right to piss and as a tax payer he should be off catching real criminals. Ah yeah, but he would not see reason. Not even a warning that I would speak to his Super at the earliest opportunity would deter him abusing my human rights.


  • #77
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    carzony wrote: »
    Do they really think they'll rank high in this new survey?:eek: The government really seem to be trying their best to make things difficult for the gardai these days with cutbacks, wages slashed, poor transport and now asking the public to rate them.

    Their obviously not gonna rank high with all the problems they have these day..

    How would you rank them when given the opportunity?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-public-satisfaction-1572137-Jul2014/

    Well my opinion on the organisation is so damn low that my ranking of them would not even register.


  • #78
    EyeSight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭EyeSight


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Well my opinion on the organisation is so damn low that my ranking of them would not even register.

    They are kings at turning bad stats into good stats.

    I wouldn't give them a high rank. I have never been arrested or done wring for a guard to need to hassle me.
    But any time i encountered them at a traffic checkpoint, getting forms filled in etc. They have been complete smart asses who seem to be looking for a fight.

    Another time I had a friend who was picked up for being too drunk on the street, probably deserved. I rang the station hours later to find out when she would be released or if i needed to pick her up. The response i got was "I don't know" **hangs up phone**

    From those experiences and hearing other stories, I have almost no faith in them. I live in the states now and although the cops get a bad rep, they're held to a much higher standard. They have always been polite to me and I know if i report a crime, they'll crack down firmly on the criminals


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