Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

I said it almost a year ago in this thread that it didn't matter who came in, once football's greatest ever motivator walked out the door, the players would stop playing.

Everyone joined Utd to play under Fergie and no way were they going to just carry on like there was no difference.

People generally disagreed with me saying that the players were pros and they'd motivate themselves but I think that's very ignorant of psychology at the top level.

In one way Moyes mad a lot of sense. It was a year long speed bump that I feel was inevitable. It's now firmly blamed on him, the players' reputations are more or less intact and so on.

I said that too a year ago. Moyes was a smart move because he was an easy guy to ditch once he failed. What would happen if Jose came in and they still bombed?

Fenix wrote: »

Exactly why he was given a 6 year contract... If players can't motivate themselves to give 100%, they shouldn't be anywhere near the club. Part of the reason why I was glad to see Rio go.

In ways you're right but not many players can just go out and give their best performance. it's very different from ideas such as 'trying' 100%. then you also have to consider that Fergie actually motivated players to be better than they are.

gosplan wrote: »

I said that too a year ago. Moyes was a smart move because he was an easy guy to ditch once he failed. What would happen if Jose came in and they still bombed?

Moyes for years had been a media favourite, a d I think his being British also lender itself to getting much lighter treatment from the media than if a Roberto Martinez type had come in and had similar results. The players we re in large part to blame, mostly from not being good enough and that was also a testament for Fergie getting 89pts from them for two years running (though signing many of them in the first place also is something worth criticising him over).

But in terms of the players not putting in the effort, that is something that developed over the earlier months of the season and while still not excusable it is somewhat understandable. Moyes' tactics were embarrassing, leading for only a tiny handful of goals from open play by October I believe. He drove Ferdinand into the ground at his age, playing him constantly where Ferguson had rotated him in and out of the team. Tactically he was comically poor, often sticking with a cautious deep backline while keeping our attacking players high up the pitch which was not only stupid in itself but player to all of our weaknesses in midfield by asking Carrick, post illness Fletcher and Cleverley to cover acres of space, and by expecting Fellaini to be able to play football when in possession.

Worst of all, whenever we got a lead, he not only failed to go for the kill but actually wanted 7-9 players to get behind the ball and hold on for dear life like a midtable team typically would against us. This, for a number of reasons, did not work and cost us leads time and again. He came out in postmatch interviews with comments that almost seemed like he was trolling everyone, bragging about having over 80 crosses against Fulham when people had been combining about his "get wide and cross" approach being draconian for ages, "we aspire to some day be on Man City's level" less than a year removed from beating them to the title, or saying "Cardiff is a tough place to get a result against so we are happy with the draw" having given up ANOTHER lead late on. And as per most reports his training was equally clueless with the vast majority of the focus being on running and fit was, including for older players like Ferdinand and Giggs who at their ages were not only always going to struggle with that, but who don't rely on those attributes anymore.

Basically yes the players gave up on him in the final months, and yes the squad was not of the quality Ferguson had got out of them in terms of results the two years prior (but they were a LOT better than the 63ish points he had them on pace for, and he had a large role in failing to strengthen over last summer) but he dug his own hole. The kiddie glove treatment he got in the media, especially towards the end, was far more irritating to me than any internal factor. At the end of the day, nice enough guy though he seems he was still wildly incompetent so comparing his treatment to what a proven top end manager like Mourinho would have gotten would have received is completely irrelevant.

It must really grate you that he is possibly the best defender in the history of the club.

Billy86 wrote: »

It must really grate you that he is possibly the best defender in the history of the club.

He's not even the best defender to have played under SAF !