Gay Cake Controversy!

catallus · 08-07-2014 09:46PM

Nolan does like his cake

And there's no-one better than him at stirring shyte; the man is a master!

dxhound2005 · 08-07-2014 09:49PM

catallus wrote: »

Nolan does like his cake

And there's no-one better than him at stirring shyte; the man is a master!

Agreed. He is the Northern equivalent of Vincent Brown all faux outrage and bluster. I added a link to the programme in my post above if anyone wants to have a listen.

Gallowglass · 08-07-2014 10:26PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I tuned in to Stephen Nolan at 9 o'clock this morning expecting to listen to the usual stuff about flegs and marches. Instead of that I got an hour about cakes. Makes a refreshing change. Even the last half hour was mostly about cakes and the upcoming public service strike. No traffic wardens there on Thursday.

I'm sure big Stephen bought a few cream buns when he left the studio

wendell borton · 08-07-2014 10:33PM

I don't think I can take it, cause it took so long to bake it, I'll never have that recipe again.

TireeTerror · 08-07-2014 11:00PM

I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider the cake's feelings in this, I think to call it gay without determining its sexuality could be offensive to it.

Jimoslimos · 08-07-2014 11:22PM

Overheal wrote: »

Agreed. This is no different that Gun Rights activists holding rallies at completely irrelevant venues like Starbucks and Target, and then getting pissy when those companies ask them to stop coming.

In fairness Target sounds like a perfect place for a gun rally, the logo could be useful too!

chrissb8 · 09-07-2014 05:43AM

It's his shop and he can run it how he likes. If he is homophobic so be it as long as he isn't actively hating LGBT movements need not latch on to something so menial isn't there gay people suffering in Russia or did cake become a larger issue?

oldyouth · 09-07-2014 07:31AM

The shop is perfectly entitled to refuse any custom but I think it is a wrong decision, purely from a business point of view. When in business, you should never alienate any sector of your market. I do think the activists carefully chose this shop to create the controversy though. I'm sure it was known that the owners had a particular ethos

old hippy · 09-07-2014 12:35PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

I read it as an another trumped up reason to play the discrimination card.:rolleyes:

I read it as another chance for padd to salivate over a thread concerning homosexuality.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Such intolerance towards the religious.

Yes, we should be bending over backwards to accommodate the feelings of the poor religious folk and how they are not allowed discriminate anymore without being called out on it.

SHOVELLER wrote: »

A cake???

Anyone else sick and tired of their constant whinging?

Yes, I'm a sick to the back teeth (gag! gag!) of pious types finding yet another excuse to discriminate against gay people and/or SSM.

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Exactly, anything to create a little controversy by these crowd.

The more the better, Jonjo. THE MORE THE BETTER.

knipex wrote: »

From what I can figure out this is just a publicity stunt..

No one has alleged that they refused to serve or accept an order from anyone due to sexual orientation.

The allegation is that to refuse a commission to decorate a cake with a political or other slogan which AFAIK is not illegal. ...

BTW I would be a supporter of gay marriage but the way the campaign is being run with cheap stunts is seriously off putting. ...

Shocking cake tactics, altogether. Best vote no & deny people equality. We must think of the cake makers. Blessed are the cake makers!

Gallowglass wrote: »

This is awful boring stuff so it is, how did it get 26 pages of comments? this is the least of our problems up here in July

Because it brings out the very best in people. We see our own foolishness and contemplate the steps we must take to perfection, love and harmony. Or something.

TireeTerror wrote: »

I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider the cake's feelings in this, I think to call it gay without determining its sexuality could be offensive to it.

Hmm. You've gone from satire to surrealism. I don't like it.

Caliden · 09-07-2014 12:39PM

oldyouth wrote: »

The shop is perfectly entitled to refuse any custom but I think it is a wrong decision, purely from a business point of view. When in business, you should never alienate any sector of your market. I do think the activists carefully chose this shop to create the controversy though. I'm sure it was known that the owners had a particular ethos

At what point though do you draw the line?

Swastika with the slogan 'If it ain't white, it ain't right' on it?

09-07-2014 12:41PM

The thing is that they did not discriminate against anyone who is gay. They simply opted not to bake a cake that contained a political message and would have told a straight person the same had they asked for the same cake.

old hippy · 09-07-2014 12:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The thing is that they did not discriminate against anyone who is gay. They simply opted not to bake a cake that contained a political message and would have told a straight person the same had they asked for the same cake.

So, if a straight person had walked in with the idea of putting a slogan on the cake, say "marriage is a great vote winner" or "vote for freedom" or "Jesus loves everyone, even TDs" he or she would be refused?

gozunda · 09-07-2014 12:51PM

Clear solution:

Ban cake - straight cake, heterosexual cake, bi cake - ban the lot. Then there will be no arguments - until we get to the buns......;)

09-07-2014 12:53PM

old hippy wrote: »

So, if a straight person had walked in with the idea of putting a slogan on the cake, say "marriage is a great vote winner" or "vote for freedom" or "Jesus loves everyone, even TDs" he or she would be refused?

No one knows that but if a straight person walked in and asked for the same cake as in this story then they'd have been refused too. They didn't discriminate against the person because they were gay but rather because they didn't want to bake a cake with such a political message.

They are perfectly entitled to do so. It's their business and if they don't want to bake something then they shouldn't have to. After all where do you draw the line, should someone walk in and expect them to bake a cake with a swastika on it?

old hippy · 09-07-2014 12:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No one knows that but if a straight person walked in and asked for the same cake as in this story then they'd have been refused too. They didn't discriminate against the person because they were gay but rather because they didn't want to bake a cake with such a political message.

They are perfectly entitled to do so. It's their business and if they don't want to bake something then they shouldn't have to. After all where do you draw the line, should someone walk in and expect them to bake a cake with a swastika on it?

But this is not the swastika, it's a simple message - not intended to cause offence or hurt anyone.

By the way, when you say swastika - do you mean the symbol found throughout the Eastern religions which has been around for millenia or the nazi appropriation of the symbol?

kunst nugget · 09-07-2014 01:00PM

old hippy wrote: »

So, if a straight person had walked in with the idea of putting a slogan on the cake, say "marriage is a great vote winner" or "vote for freedom" or "Jesus loves everyone, even TDs" he or she would be refused?

Would any of these be against their Christian Ethos?

I wouldn't be comfortable with their stance and if I lived in the area I would not buy their products based on how they run their company but they have the right to run their business according to their ethos as long as they don't discriminate against anyone. If a straight person had ordered the same cake, they would have refused the same as a gay person.

Do you think people should be forced to do things that they might not agree with on a moral or religious basis? Should, let's say, a nurse with a strongly pro-life position be told she must assist at abortions or lose her job? Should a muslim screen-printer be forced to make a t-shirt of Muhammad?

Brendan Flowers · 09-07-2014 01:02PM

old hippy wrote: »

But this is not the swastika, it's a simple message - not intended to cause offence or hurt anyone.

By the way, when you say swastika - do you mean the symbol found throughout the Eastern religions which has been around for millenia or the nazi appropriation of the symbol?

So if a bakery was run by a gay couple and I went in and asked them to bake a cake saying "Marriage is only for straight people" and "Say No to gay marriage, homosexuality is wrong", you'd expect them to bake that for me?

Awkward Badger · 09-07-2014 01:02PM

I can't see this going anywhere if the bakery stands their ground. I think the equality authority jumped the gun and accepted the version of events from whoever made the complaint without getting the full story.

If they start legal proceedings to penalise the bakery for discriminating based on sexuality because they declined to make a custom cake with which they had a problem with making they will lose. Because its not discriminating against anyone based on sexuality. Its the cake they have a problem with not the sexuality of the customer.

09-07-2014 01:06PM

old hippy wrote: »

But this is not the swastika, it's a simple message - not intended to cause offence or hurt anyone.

By the way, when you say swastika - do you mean the symbol found throughout the Eastern religions which has been around for millenia or the nazi appropriation of the symbol?

I think it's pretty obvious by what I mean by use of a swastika.

Did you ever think that taking two beloved children characters and portraying them as homosexual lovers may cause offence and hurt to some people?

At the end of the day this all boils down to the fact that a business run by a certain ethos is expected to change it's values and beliefs to suit some. They are entitled to their beliefs, I may not agree with them or you or many others but how can you justify forcing your beliefs on another. I bet you'd be rather less for the situation were it a gay baker who refused to bake a cake condemning gay marriage? I bet in that case people would be celebrating the person for not bending their beliefs to satisfy another.

The bakery here did not discriminate against anyone. They merely chose not to bake a cake which contained a political message they did not agree with. It's no different to them refusing to bake a cake with an anti Europe or pro IRA message on it.

Awkward Badger · 09-07-2014 01:07PM

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

So if a bakery was run by a gay couple and I went in and asked them to bake a cake saying "Marriage is only for straight people" and "Say No to gay marriage, homosexuality is wrong", you'd expect them to bake that for me?

Well considering you cannot discriminate based on religious beliefs and according to those on here you could go in and ask for a cake saying "Homosexuality is a sin" etc. And the person making it is obliged to make it and should be named/shamed, have their business damaged, have the equality authority threaten legal action and demand recompense if they don't.

Something tells me they might see it differently if the shoe was on the other foot though.

gozunda · 09-07-2014 01:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No one knows that but if a straight person walked in and asked for the same cake as in this story then they'd have been refused too. They didn't discriminate against the person because they were gay but rather because they didn't want to bake a cake with such a political message.

They are perfectly entitled to do so. It's their business and if they don't want to bake something then they shouldn't have to. After all where do you draw the line, should someone walk in and expect them to bake a cake with a swastika on it?

The facts are:

There is no mention anywhere of political message'

A spokes person for Ashers have said - quote

“We felt it was at odds with our beliefs and in contradiction with what the Bible teaches,” .

After taking the order they later nformed the customer that they couldn’t take his order and refunded him.

The cake had been ordered for a civic event in Bangor Castle Town Hall to mark International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia.

The Equality Commission has told the owner of Asher’s Baking Company that it has broken the law by refusing to bake a cake for a member of a gay rights group.

Specifically the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland in a letter to Ashers warning the company that it had breached the 2006 Equality Act regulations on service provision on grounds of the customer’s sexual orientation.

The Equality Commission now has remit on this case - so rather than argue individual interpretations as to what people believe or think the fact maybe it is perhaps best to wait and see what happens.

gandalf · 09-07-2014 01:12PM

Awkward Badger wrote: »

I can't see this going anywhere if the bakery stands their ground. I think the equality authority jumped the gun and accepted the version of events from whoever made the complaint without getting the full story.

If they start legal proceedings to penalise the bakery for discriminating based on gender because they declined to make a custom cake with which they had a problem with making they will lose. Because its not discriminating against anyone based on sexuality. Its the cake they have a problem with not the sexuality of the customer.

My understanding is the equality authority have contacted the bakery to get their side of the story before they take things further.

I'm sure if they got enough requests for "gay cakes" they would have to make a commercial decision and if they were a proper business would have to meet the demand for a product. I'm surprised that no Entrepreneurial competitor hasn't jumped in yet to take advance of the free publicity to say they can fill the order

09-07-2014 01:15PM

gozunda wrote: »

The facts are:

The cake was ordered for a civic event in Bangor Castle Town Hall to mark International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia.

The Equality Commission has told the owner of Asher’s Baking Company that it has broken the law by refusing to bake a cake for a member of a gay rights group.

Specifically the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland in a letter to Ashers warning the company that it had breached the 2006 Equality Act regulations on service provision on grounds of the customer’s sexual orientation.

The Equality Commission now has remit on this case - so rather than argue individual interpretations as to what people believe or think it is perhaps best to wait and see what happens.

It didn't refuse to bake a cake for a member of a gay rights group, it refused to bake one with a political message. If someone who was part of a anti-gay rights group went in and asked a gay baker to bake a cake with a message in line with their their ideology should the bakery be expected to bake it?

09-07-2014 01:17PM

gozunda wrote: »

The facts are:

There is no mention anywhere of political message'

A spokes person for Ashers have said - quote

“We felt it was at odds with our beliefs and in contradiction with what the Bible teaches,” .

They informed the customer that they couldn’t take his order and refunded him.

The message on the cake was a political one. It was a cake asking for support for gay marriage which is political. The bakers are perfectly entitled to turn away business if it goes against what they believe. They did not discriminate against a gay person, they merely refused to bake a cake which contained a political message which went against their beliefs.

Awkward Badger · 09-07-2014 01:18PM

gandalf wrote: »

My understanding is the equality authority have contacted the bakery to get their side of the story before they take things further.

All I see is reference to a letter from the equality authority stating the bakery had breached the law, asks what way they can compensate the customer and threatens legal action if its not resolved. I don't see anything about them being contacted for their side of the story. But perhaps I missed it.

I'm sure if they got enough requests for "gay cakes" they would have to make a commercial decision and if they were a proper business would have to meet the demand for a product. I'm surprised that no Entrepreneurial competitor hasn't jumped in yet to take advance of the free publicity to say they can fill the order

They say in their video they have declined to make cakes with pornographic content and swearing before. I doubt declining to make the cakes they have issue with affects them financially, it would be a rare occurrence. The only reason they will suffer financially from this is because of the negative publicity. Which lets be fair, were it not someone with an agenda doing it deliberately none of us would ever know about.

DulchieLaois · 09-07-2014 01:23PM

LGBT are taking the bakery for discrimmination
Do they think that they can bully people into doing something that they dont want to do ?
Its seems that LGBT think they can do anything they want which I particularly dont like about them.
We are all supposed to smile, think they are great and if we say anything against it, they bully with their B-S !!!!

Simple Fact - Bakery doesnt want to do cake, accept it and find a bakery that does their business

Awkward Badger · 09-07-2014 01:26PM

DulchieLaois wrote: »

LGBT are taking the bakery for discrimmination
Do they think that they can bully people into doing something that they dont want to do ?
Its seems that LGBT think they can do anything they want which I particularly dont like about them.
We are all supposed to smile, think they are great and if we say anything against it, they bully with their B-S !!!!

Simple Fact - Bakery doesnt want to do cake, accept it and find a bakery that does their business

Well lets be fair here this is one group called Queer Space and possibly only one or several members of that involved in the cake incident. Its not the entire LGBT community.

floggg · 09-07-2014 01:27PM

DulchieLaois wrote: »

LGBT are taking the bakery for discrimmination
Do they think that they can bully people into doing something that they dont want to do ?
Its seems that LGBT think they can do anything they want which I particularly dont like about them.
We are all supposed to smile, think they are great and if we say anything against it, they bully with their B-S !!!!

Simple Fact - Bakery doesnt want to do cake, accept it and find a bakery that does their business

Yes. Because we all ordered the cake.

gozunda · 09-07-2014 01:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The message on the cake was a political one. It was a cake asking for support for gay marriage which is political. The bakers are perfectly entitled to turn away business if it goes against what they believe. They did not discriminate against a gay person, they merely refused to bake a cake which contained a political message which went against their beliefs.

By political I would understand a statement in support of some political organisation or individual - queue cake with image of Mr Paisley or Mr Adams.

The campaign that the group is running is if it can be defined as anything is a civil rights issue and not political as the case of the swastika as promoted by so many on here.

I have quoted what the Equality Commission specified and they Cleary state that they wrote to Ashers warning the company that it had breached the 2006 Equality Act regulations on service provision on grounds of the customer’s sexual orientation

They company made no statement apropos to declining on the basis of a 'political statement' - they said -
“We felt it was at odds with our beliefs and in contradiction with what the Bible teaches,”

There is clearly nothing political about the group or in any statement made by the Bakery - that maybe your interpretation but it ain't going to wash with was has already been stated by the bakery and the equality commission

09-07-2014 01:30PM

DulchieLaois wrote: »

LGBT are taking the bakery for discrimmination
Do they think that they can bully people into doing something that they dont want to do ?
Its seems that LGBT think they can do anything they want which I particularly dont like about them.
We are all supposed to smile, think they are great and if we say anything against it, they bully with their B-S !!!!

Simple Fact - Bakery doesnt want to do cake, accept it and find a bakery that does their business

No they don't. The vast majority of the LGBT community are just like the rest of the world and to say try and tar them all with same brush because of the actions of a handful is just ridiculous.

Gay Cake Controversy!

Comments