We Need To Talk About Slow Play

GreeBo · 08-07-2014 08:02AM

TheDoc wrote: »

We don't have the "honour" rule in our normal fourball. Whoever is ready hits. IT also means if you need to do something, you can just say "someone fire ahead there". (I frequently do this is I want to finish my smoke)

It's just common sense at the end of the day.

Have to say that potentially delaying your group because you want to finish your smoke doesnt seem to promote quick golf in my book.

Wouldn't common sense mean that you dont light up when you are going to need to tee off before you are done?

BraveDonut · 08-07-2014 12:46PM

If someone has holed out and is holding the flag to put it back in and I notice that their bag is on the wrong side of the green, I will say "here, let me take that while you go and get your bag". Or conversely, I will hand someone the flag and ask them to take care of it if it makes more sense.

I also find that if the group is respecting the honour and the player that is up starts dithering, I will say "sure I'll hit while you're getting ready". This serves the purpose of speeding up that hole and moving from the honour to ready golf.

If I put a ball in trouble from the tee I will practically run to it to try to find it without delaying the group.

TrapperChamonix · 08-07-2014 01:57PM

I came across an interesting version of the game recently. Happened on 2 different courses. I was playing in a 4 ball on a pretty empty course ( no one in front and no one behind). Along come a 2 ball playing at a pretty good pace and we let them through. When letting them through you could see they were playing at a fast pace but were playing absolutely awful golf. Hit it 150 yds off the tee, then 50 yds to the right and 50 to the left, repeat and repeat again. It was more like hockey than golf. Now sometimes this can be caused by trying to hurry through when you've been let play through, but it was so bad I had one eye on them on the next hole and it was repeated again. 1st course it was what looked like a husband and wife and the 2nd course it was 3 guys in late 20's or early 30's.

Sean_pop · 09-07-2014 03:50PM

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Pro's: We should expose and ridicule slow play on the professional tour (Keegan, Na, Langer, Furyk etc etc). If they are on the clock and penalised it should be by deducting shots cause a few thousand bucks either way doesn't make any difference. I'm not sure exactly what went on with Na recently and I don't agree with calling out during his shot but if he was getting heckled outside of that for excessive slow play then GOOD.
The most disturbing thing I heard recently from a player (can't for the life of me remember who it was) was that his coach had instructed him to slow his walk down between shots.

On a personal basis, 2 pet peves;
Playing in strict rotation: There is far too much bulls*** that goes on with people deciding who's away on a hole or who's honour it is. Its a custom but not a rule and I'm normally happy to abide by it but it the round is heading for 4.5 hrs plus then I can do without it. When ever I am in a group that is lagging behind the group in front, the 1st thing I suggest is that you play when ready. I can't abide 3 people on the green waiting for the 4th to chip AND then cause he's furthest away, waiting for him to walk on to the green and line up his putt and only then hit your own. Similarly if you are at the tee 1st and its not your honour then just get up and hit the ball.
Searching for lost ball: Another example is when someone has lost his ball and his partners are looking for it, there is no reason that 3 people can't look for the ball while the 4th is playing theirs then join the search while freeing up another to play their shot. At the end of the five minutes search all the other players should have played their shots while at the same time 3 people will have been looking for the ball for the allocated 5 mins.

Shot clock should be imposed on every shot by right. Its the only way!!!

When playing matchplay playing in strict rotation is probably more important as one can gain an advantage by playing out of turn. If you are out for an ordinary round with your mates it should not make much difference

By right if people are waiting behind you and you a searching for a ball, you should call them through. But this never seems to happen anymore!!!

Felexicon · 09-07-2014 06:04PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Have to say that potentially delaying your group because you want to finish your smoke doesnt seem to promote quick golf in my book.

Wouldn't common sense mean that you dont light up when you are going to need to tee off before you are done?

You've completely missed his point Greebo. He's giving examples of how his particular regular 4 ball works. He knows that if he has the honour but is finishing a smoke the other guys will just bomb on. I'm sure once the other 3 have played he's ready to go wether he's finished his smoke or not. Have the same thing with my regular partners and it works fine.
And saying not to light up until a point were you have 5 minutes between shots is ridiculous, it probably won't happen all round so the tee box is the perfect place for it

GreeBo · 09-07-2014 06:52PM

Felexicon wrote: »

You've completely missed his point Greebo. He's giving examples of how his particular regular 4 ball works. He knows that if he has the honour but is finishing a smoke the other guys will just bomb on. I'm sure once the other 3 have played he's ready to go wether he's finished his smoke or not. Have the same thing with my regular partners and it works fine.
And saying not to light up until a point were you have 5 minutes between shots is ridiculous, it probably won't happen all round so the tee box is the perfect place for it

No, missing the point ( in a deliciously ironic fashion) is congratulating yourself about having a smoke when it's your turn to play. You might as well argue that your group all know to play out of turn while you are on your phone.

What do you do if all four want a smoke?

Spark up after the tee shots of you must.

Felexicon · 09-07-2014 08:02PM

GreeBo wrote: »

No, missing the point ( in a deliciously ironic fashion) is congratulating yourself about having a smoke when it's your turn to play. You might as well argue that your group all know to play out of turn while you are on your phone.

What do you do if all four want a smoke?

Spark up after the tee shots of you must.

Incorrect. Your take on things would be true of four players not familiar with each other. But The Doc plays with these people every week therefore if he's having a smoke his "turn" is last off the tee.

Anyway it's a very specific thing to be arguing when there are so many things that cause slow play.

GreeBo · 09-07-2014 10:44PM

Felexicon wrote: »

Incorrect. Your take on things would be true of four players not familiar with each other. But The Doc plays with these people every week therefore if he's having a smoke his "turn" is last off the tee.

Anyway it's a very specific thing to be arguing when there are so many things that cause slow play.

What's incorrect exactly?
Substitute finishing a smoke with writing a txt and see how you feel about it.

The problem with slow play is two fold; slow people never know or admit to being slow and slowness is made up of a multitude of small things.

Not being ready to play when it's your turn is slow, sure not playing ready golf is slower, but the initial sin is not being ready because you are doing something other than golf. Again I don't think anyone would agree with someone bit being ready because they were texting or browsing for example. Smoking is no different.

Felexicon · 09-07-2014 11:28PM

GreeBo wrote: »

What's incorrect exactly?
Substitute finishing a smoke with writing a txt and see how you feel about it.

The problem with slow play is two fold; slow people never know or admit to being slow and slowness is made up of a multitude of small things.

Not being ready to play when it's your turn is slow, sure not playing ready golf is slower, but the initial sin is not being ready because you are doing something other than golf. Again I don't think anyone would agree with someone bit being ready because they were texting or browsing for example. Smoking is no different.

Are you intentionally not reading what I'm saying here?
He is talking specifically about his regular 4 ball and how they speed things up so things like smoking or having to send a text or marking a card don't slow them up.
I don't think he's putting forward as a universal answer to stop slow play.

TheDoc · 10-07-2014 10:54AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Have to say that potentially delaying your group because you want to finish your smoke doesnt seem to promote quick golf in my book.

Wouldn't common sense mean that you dont light up when you are going to need to tee off before you are done?

Would on occasion light up on the walk from a green to next tee, few holes have a decent walk. I forgo my honour and let the others hit, then I'm ready to go.

There is no loss of time what so ever

GreeBo · 10-07-2014 11:08AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Would on occasion light up on the walk from a green to next tee, few holes have a decent walk. I forgo my honour and let the others hit, then I'm ready to go.

There is no loss of time what so ever

Maybe there is no loss of time but only because of your partners.
But do you not agree that not being ready to play when its your turn is basically the cause of slow play?
You are reliant on your playing partners to play out of turn because you are choosing to do something other than be ready to hit your shot.

I really see no difference between finishing your smoke and writing a txt or surfing the web. Its essentially not being ready to play when you should be.

TheDoc · 10-07-2014 11:53AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe there is no loss of time but only because of your partners.
But do you not agree that not being ready to play when its your turn is basically the cause of slow play?
You are reliant on your playing partners to play out of turn because you are choosing to do something other than be ready to hit your shot.

I really see no difference between finishing your smoke and writing a txt or surfing the web. Its essentially not being ready to play when you should be.

I think I nessled the point in fairness under the topic of like, the things my regular fourball do to keep things moving. It's no loss of time because while I might not be ready to take the first hit, I'm ready by the third or fourth.

Be the same if I needed to change ball, or if I needed to get a tee or something (not that I ever do) but you get my drift, I know it's an avoidable situation, but the point I was making that in my fourball we don't really care for the "honour" order, and it's whoever is ready go, and it keeps things ticking.

Rikand · 10-07-2014 12:05PM

What I'm getting from this discussion is that

FixdePitchmark · 10-07-2014 12:14PM

I think some people who don't smoke - are just intolerable to it.

You hear lads saying.
"Could he not just play a round of golf without a smoke"
"Jaysus - could you not just have a meal without a smoke"

I think this intolerance tends to drift into other things.

I've no issue with it at all - does piss me off a little to see cigarette butts or any rubbish on a course. One place in life you look for perfection.
I not saying anyone here does. But I do see them on the course - it is also a real fire risk in these conditions.

Russman · 10-07-2014 12:15PM

Lads, I'm not being dismissive, but its really not rocket science to play at an acceptable pace, whatever that may be. By all means play ready golf, leave your bag in the right place etc etc, but IMO it just comes down to not faffing around.

We had our Captains Prize qualifier last weekend, random draw for partners, and its a given that you'll be "paying attention" to what you're doing. Granted I was out early, but none of the threeball were playing particularly well, ie we hit plenty of shots :mad:, and we observed the "honour" on each tee, there was no running or playing out of turn, all very courteous and proper, there were even 2 occasions where one guy had to go back to drop after not being able to find is ball (we all saw it drop out of a tree but we couldn't find it !) and I remarked to the guys when we were halfway up the 18th fairway "...you know lads, we're exactly 3 hours to here, and it hasn't felt like a quick or rushed game at all, isn't it amazing......". They agreed and basically we chatted about how it really doesn't take much just to keep things moving. If you don't have time to light a smoke, step into the trees for a p1$$, eat an apple, whatever, then there's something else that's holding you up, not those little necessary things we do.

By the same token the previous day I played foresomes, which you'd think would be quicker, with a pair who looked at every shot from multiple angles, lasered 30-40yd pitch shots (wtf !!), practically got out sextents and astronomical charts before they hit each shot - game took forever. From 180yds they were discussing whether to aim 3 yards or 4 yards right of the flag, seriously, I'm all for accuracy but, come on !! They probably still don't think they were slow, or should I say "deliberate" - it was a classic case of playing TV Golf.

HB2002 · 14-07-2014 12:51PM

Played our monthly medal off the blues yesterday.... a recipe for disaster!... but it doesn't have to be!!

The three ball in front of us were dog slow.... they lost over 2 holes on the crowd in front and we said it to them on the 14th ( we had already asked them what the hold up was on the 5th ) and they got a bit agressive and basicaly said it " stroke off the blue get over it " as if that gives you the right to take 5 hours to play a three ball on your home course!.

I know stroke can take longer than stableford no issue there but if you lose two holes on the crowd in front just step it up... chat a little less and get to your ball quicker... but take your time over your shots.

Christ if you shave 20 seconds off the time it takes you to get to your ball andtake your shot you knock half an hour off your round without the need for your to sprint around the course.

alxmorgan · 14-07-2014 12:55PM

HB2002 wrote: »

Played our monthly medal off the blues yesterday.... a recipe for disaster!... but it doesn't have to be!!

The three ball in front of us were dog slow.... they lost over 2 holes on the crowd in front and we said it to them on the 14th ( we had already asked them what the hold up was on the 5th ) and they got a bit agressive and basicaly said it " stroke off the blue get over it " as if that gives you the right to take 5 hours to play a three ball on your home course!.

I know stroke can take longer than stableford no issue there but if you lose two holes on the crowd in front just step it up... chat a little less and get to your ball quicker... but take your time over your shots.

Christ if you shave 20 seconds off the time it takes you to get to your ball andtake your shot you knock half an hour off your round without the need for your to sprint around the course.

Hate this attitude. Irrelevant as your place is always behind the group in front. If it takes longer fine but let groups through if you are holding them up cause guess what genius ?....they are playing same comp as you and somehow team in front and behind are quicker than you :rolleyes:

golfwallah · 15-07-2014 08:31AM

HB2002 wrote: »

Played our monthly medal off the blues yesterday.... a recipe for disaster!... but it doesn't have to be!!

The three ball in front of us were dog slow.... they lost over 2 holes on the crowd in front and we said it to them on the 14th ( we had already asked them what the hold up was on the 5th ) and they got a bit agressive and basicaly said it " stroke off the blue get over it " as if that gives you the right to take 5 hours to play a three ball on your home course!.

I know stroke can take longer than stableford no issue there but if you lose two holes on the crowd in front just step it up... chat a little less and get to your ball quicker... but take your time over your shots.

Christ if you shave 20 seconds off the time it takes you to get to your ball andtake your shot you knock half an hour off your round without the need for your to sprint around the course.

5 hours for a 3 ball on your home course, even for a strokes comp., sounds a bit long!

Surely your club must have a position on "pace of play"? If they don't, it's up to the members, who feel strongly enough about it, to start doing something to help bring about change .... without causing "world war 3".

Problem is, member clubs are run mainly by volunteers and we all know that the priority in most clubs these days is plain "survival". But all have a role to play .... members and committee - if only you could convince enough members and committee that doing something about pace of play would help along the road to survival - by keeping more existing members happy.

Maybe you could think about possible solutions a bit more (i.e. how to bring in a "pace of play" regime, including the communications piece, that would be acceptable by all segments of the club), research the issue on the web, write your ideas down, get a bit of support and bring them to the attention of the committee.

Better still - offer to help with solving the problem yourself - member clubs belong to all the members - not just the committee! Politics - you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, I guess!

PARlance · 15-07-2014 08:10PM

Walked off the course today after 13 holes or 3 hours 50mins.
We would have been 5 hours 30mins at the very least.
I normally play the same place, when it's full of 4 balls, and 4hrs 15 is standard.

There wasn't a sinner behind us and not a sinner in front (once we let a three ball through early on...).

Myself and a mate had been teamed up with a father and son.
The father had a slow enough routine but it probably wouldn't look too bad on its own.
The son, in his early 20's was by far and away the slowest player I've ever played with.
I kid you not, his putting routine included lying on the ground twice (aka Camilo Villegas) for each putt to assess the slope, then he would place his putter well behind the ball and preform some other measurement. He would then proceed to take another minute standing over the ball.

To make it worse he was a pretty shocking putter, I took the watch out and clocked him on one green.
A 3 putt that lasted just over 5 minutes.....

His pre shot routine elsewhere was just as bad.
There was talk of smoking on the tee on here recently... I had a full smoke finished by time I teed off and the son teed off (directly after me!!!!).

To make it worse, they were an incredibly nice pairing, polite, good craic and gents.... There were plenty of "we need to pick it up a bit's" issued, and in fairness the pace did pick up between shots.... But the pre shot routines were just killers.

Had to call it a day after 13, went over to the father and kept it very polite but the point was made. I said something about having to be somewhere and hadn't factored it being 5-6 hour round. It was acknowledged.

Camilo Bejaysus was christened as we walked back in playing the last few holes as a 2 ball.

Caddy cart · 15-07-2014 08:25PM

Enjoyed the last message. How did u last that long.

Arsenium · 15-07-2014 09:03PM

Caddy cart wrote: »

Enjoyed the last message. How did u last that long.

Very funny to read. I doubt it was funny to endure!! Lying on the ground....Twice!! How did you not burst out laughing??

PARlance · 15-07-2014 09:55PM

Arsenium wrote: »

Very funny to read. I doubt it was funny to endure!! Lying on the ground....Twice!! How did you not burst out laughing??

Ah stop, a lot of sympathy and a bit of shock and a hell of a lot more sympathy.

Camilo only made an appearance on the 3rd after he shanked the Bejaysus out of the first and second.

Then there were a few holes of shock... Was this really happening..... That's his father.... Why isn't his father telling him to get the F off the green.

Then sympathy again after the poor putts added up.

Rage did set in on the 9th green though.
I was tending the flag, I actually had to change the arm I was tending it with as it begain to ache as someone was still making love to the green / pre putt routine.
Anyway, he had a 25 putter and after everything..... He hit his putt 5 feet.

There were 2 chances I was going to even offer to tend the flag again. I just went for a lap of the green with flag in arms muttering to myself.

But ya, it was mainly sympathy. Seeing a 20 year old so crippled by putting was extremely hard to watch. Felt sorry for the young lad.
But I couldn't watch it for another 90 mins and had to walk in!

Rikand · 15-07-2014 10:19PM

PARlance wrote: »

Anyway, he had a 25 putter and after everything..... He hit his putt 5 feet.

No wonder he only hit it 5 feet. He must have been wrecked before he got to address the ball

Arsenium · 15-07-2014 10:47PM

Oh I cant stop laughing at that story !! I can just imagine the groans and mutterings after enduring all the shaping and gyrating when he only hit it 5 feet. And you knew the whole thing was about to start again

There is a sadness to it also I guess...maybe some form of OCD or something.

PARlance · 23-07-2014 11:12PM

Played with a lad today that took 10 mins to hit his approach shot after hitting the fairway from tee, some crack

alxmorgan · 24-07-2014 09:24AM

PARlance wrote: »

Played with a lad today that took 10 mins to hit his approach shot after hitting the fairway from tee, some crack

You seem to attract them don't you ?

Sean_pop · 24-07-2014 11:36AM

Captains Prize last week.

For some reason they let out 4 balls in Stoke competition on Saturday after 1pm

It took us 4hr 50mins.:o:o

willabur · 24-07-2014 12:08PM

My Brother smokes during a round, he just puts his cigar down (usually on the wheel of his buggy, sometimes on the grass ) when it is his turn and picks it up after his turn. Seems to work well