New drivers to display novice ‘N’ plates from next month

No Pants · 07-07-2014 12:31PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Can someone help me understand why a novice gets a penalty point 'allowance' of 7 points while someone on an existing full license can clock up 11 points in the same period and not get a ban?

Its not fair, and I'm struggling to see the logic.

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

Because they're novice drivers? How is it not fair? Every new driver from now on will have to go through the same process.

As for this road rage you mention, where is it happening?

nc19 · 07-07-2014 12:35PM

ibstar wrote: »

soon to come. M and F plates for male and female

Wont need the F plate tbh.....just look for a phone stuck to an ear and its a safe bet its a woman

NIMAN · 07-07-2014 12:35PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

That would be your choice, same could be said for drunk driving, with lack of Gardai in some rural areas your chance of getting caught is quite low.

But if you decide to ignore it, and you crash your car, thats when the sh1t will hit the fan. Your insurance will be invalid and the costs will spiral for you.

No Pants · 07-07-2014 12:38PM

Steviemoyne wrote: »

Main thing I see wrong with it is how a person is expected to get to and from work if they live outside of a town. If such a person has nobody to travel with how are they expected to earn a living?

Be an adult and make alternative arrangements.

07-07-2014 12:40PM

So I have a full car licence 4 years, and have a motorcycle learner permit currently. So that means when I pass my test for the bike, I have to wear an 'N' badge for another two years on my bike? B*locks to that, I'll take the fine if I get stopped!

No Pants · 07-07-2014 12:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So I have a full car licence 4 years, and have a motorcycle learner permit currently. So that means when I pass my test for the bike, I have to wear an 'N' badge for another two years on my bike? B*locks to that, I'll take the fine if I get stopped!

The article suggests otherwise.

OldNotWIse · 07-07-2014 12:48PM

djimi wrote: »

The new rules dont affect learners and in reality the N plate doesnt affect anyone either. If you are racking up 12 points in your first 24 months as a licensed driver then honestly it was a mistake to give you a license in the first place. Im not sure what it to gain from the lower alcohol limit, but its my honest opinion that it should make no difference either way; youre either drinking or you are driving, and there is little reason to be doing both.

Except it gives experienced drivers the go-ahead to treat you like sh1t - or maybe with an N they will just treat you like quasi sh1t.

No Pants · 07-07-2014 12:53PM

djimi wrote: »

If you need to drive then get a full license. There is nothing wrong with the current system; if I would change anything it would be to limit further how learners can drive in private vehicles, not give them more freedom to behave like they are a licensed driver.

I'd limit the number of learner permits that can be applied for. The first and second permits are valid for two years each. The third then lasts for one more year. I'd cap it at that. If you haven't managed to pass a test by then, driving isn't for you.

OldNotWIse · 07-07-2014 12:54PM

nc19 wrote: »

Wont need the F plate tbh.....just look for a phone stuck to an ear and its a safe bet its a woman

Indeed, and while we're on the subject of generalisations, we wont need an "M" either as that'll be the one driving up your hole :P

kingtut · 07-07-2014 12:56PM

ibstar wrote: »

soon to come. M and F plates for male and female

How about a T for transgender? Can't discriminate yadda yadda yadda

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

At the most they will clamp down for the first week and then turn a blind eye as per usual

djimi · 07-07-2014 01:05PM

NIMAN wrote: »

That would be your choice, same could be said for drunk driving, with lack of Gardai in some rural areas your chance of getting caught is quite low.

But if you decide to ignore it, and you crash your car, thats when the sh1t will hit the fan. Your insurance will be invalid and the costs will spiral for you.

The problem at the moment is that the **** doesnt hit the fan. I know several unaccompanied learners who have been involved in accidents (mostly through their own fault), the Gardai have arrived, they have been allowed to drive home unaccompanied and they faced no futher penalties either from the Gardai or their insurance companies. The color of your license is irrelevant in Ireland; you pass a multiple choice exam and you are effectively a fully licensed driver, and that is what is wrong with Irish motoring.

Akrasia · 07-07-2014 01:14PM

Why don't we just invite google in to launch the first full country pilot program for self driving cars. Then we're all happy, the publicans can get their drinkers back, the women can do their makeup. The men can masturbate on the way to work and nobody will ever die in a stupidity related car crash ever again.

Moneymaker · 07-07-2014 01:14PM

I for one never drove unaccompanied when I was a Learner.

Simple reason being I knew I did not have the experience to handle every situation that can arise on my own and I could be a potential risk to other motorists. 2 years with a full licence and I still don't consider myself an experienced and 100% polished driver.

I was definitely the exception to the rule however, the amount of L plate cars that are occupied by one person is almost laughable. 10 min drive to work, I will see anything from 3-5 of them. It's crazy.

Jesus. · 07-07-2014 01:15PM

No Pants wrote: »

I'd limit the number of learner permits that can be applied for. The first and second permits are valid for two years each. The third then lasts for one more year. I'd cap it at that. If you haven't managed to pass a test by then, driving isn't for you.

:rolleyes:

Jesus. · 07-07-2014 01:21PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

Well said. That sense of superiority is already very prevalent judging by some of the comments on here and the often used "Irish drivers are etc" remark, even though those saying it are probably as bad as anyone.

H3llR4iser · 07-07-2014 01:24PM

Good in theory, and just complying with the rules existing in most EU countries; Nearly impossible to enforce in reality unless they begin stopping everybody to check their license. And mind you, they don't even stop the glaring violations right now; Friday morning was on the South Link towards the tunnel - Garda Traffic Corps car with lights on on the hard shoulders and two cars stopped; Yet, right in front of me there were not 1, not 2 but 3 "L" plate cars, each with only the driver inside and not one was stopped/checked.

As for the Irish attitude towards getting a license, I said it before: it's nothing short of shocking. This is a country that's almost totally dependent on the private car, yet people keep postponing getting a license with various excuses (don't need it/don't have time/costs too much...); Then the day comes when they absolutely need one to take a job...and start complaining about "unfair rules":rolleyes:

Sam Kade · 07-07-2014 01:43PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

What about if you were in an accident? You will see the Gardaí then

jimgoose · 07-07-2014 02:10PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Can someone help me understand why a novice gets a penalty point 'allowance' of 7 points while someone on an existing full license can clock up 11 points in the same period and not get a ban?

Its not fair, and I'm struggling to see the logic.

I should say the idea of it is to encourage concentration and development in the mind of the small Grasshopper for the two years after acquiring a full driver's license. I see it as a largely constructive step towards getting into the cliggín of Irish poeple that a driver's license is something that is earned through hard work, learning and continuous personal development.

intellectual dosser wrote: »

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

The presence of learners and novices offends the true Gael who believes him/herself to be entitled by birth to a driver's license due to a chance off-the-cuff remark by Theobald Wolfe-Tone in 1794.

ogillman · 07-07-2014 02:14PM

Might be a stupid question but say I pass my test last day of July then don't actually get the pink license till 2nd week into August does that mean I'd have to display the N plates or would I not have to because I passed the test before August first?

NIMAN · 07-07-2014 02:14PM

OF course the law is hard to enforce, but like littering, drink driving, TV licence etc the hope is that they scare enough people to actually do what they want.

There will always be people who flaunt the law.

jimgoose · 07-07-2014 02:18PM

ogillman wrote: »

Might be a stupid question but say I pass my test last day of July then don't actually get the pink license till 2nd week into August does that mean I'd have to display the N plates or would I not have to because I passed the test before August first?

From Part 2, Section 3, Paragraph (1) of the Road Traffic Act, 2014:

For the purposes of this Act, a person who is the holder of a first driving licence is a novice driver for the period of 2 years from the date of its issue.

There's your answer - you are considered a Novice for two years from the date of issue of your driver's license.

naughtysmurf · 07-07-2014 02:23PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

What about if you were in an accident? You will see the Gardaí then

But laws like this aren't really enforced so the the risk is minimal, that's the issue, you can make all the laws you want, if you don't enforce them, what's the point

Will the guards come to a minor tip, nobody injured, not sure

Sam Kade · 07-07-2014 02:30PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

But laws like this aren't really enforced so the the risk is minimal, that's the issue, you can make all the laws you want, if you don't enforce them, what's the point

Will the guards come to a minor tip, nobody injured, not sure

So because a law isn't enforced it's ok not to abide by it.

I witnessed Gardaí being called to a tesco carpark where a man only tipped another car. The car he tipped had so many previous scratches it was impossible to see any fresh one yet the garda spent half an hour there taking details.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 07-07-2014 02:36PM

Any time I've given a statement to the Traffic Corps, either as a witness or as a party to an accident, the AGS member referred to the "fast lane" and the "slow lane"

Says a lot really.
If they don't enforce correct lane usage, how can people be expected to give credibility to new laws.

Jesus. · 07-07-2014 02:52PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I should say the idea of it is to encourage concentration and development in the mind of the small Grasshopper for the two years after acquiring a full driver's license. I see it as a largely constructive step towards getting into the cliggín of Irish poeple that a driver's license is something that is earned through hard work, learning and continuous personal development.The presence of learners and novices offends the true Gael who believes him/herself to be entitled by birth to a driver's license due to a chance off-the-cuff remark by Theobald Wolfe-Tone in 1794.

The problem I have with that is most people saying its great and that new drivers should be put through the mincer, are the same guys who didn't have to go through a quarter of this sh*t when they got theirs.

Pull the ladder up after yourself there boys :P

pippip · 07-07-2014 02:53PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Any time I've given a statement to the Traffic Corps, either as a witness or as a party to an accident, the AGS member referred to the "fast lane" and the "slow lane"

Says a lot really.
If they don't enforce correct lane usage, how can people be expected to give credibility to new laws.

To be honest I wouldn't read much into that. I'm sure they use the terms that are more commonly understood by drivers based on their experience.

Just because they are incorrect wording doesn't make it wrong. They are just trying to communicate as clearly as possible what happened.

In their report they could be writing to the correct legal definition.

jimgoose · 07-07-2014 02:54PM

Jesus. wrote: »

The problem I have with that is most people saying its great and that new drivers should be put through the mincer, are the same guys who didn't have to go through a quarter of this sh*t when they got theirs.

Pull the ladder up after yourself there boys :P

"I'm not the problem!! That's physically impossible! It's the other fucker over there, see him lah - get him!!"

It's the Irish way, dontcherknow!! :pac:

Jesus. · 07-07-2014 02:55PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Any time I've given a statement to the Traffic Corps, either as a witness or as a party to an accident, the AGS member referred to the "fast lane" and the "slow lane"

Why, how many times have you had to do that?

You make it sound like its a regular occurrence Clevey boy!!!

No Pants · 07-07-2014 03:09PM

Jesus. wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Can I infer from your argument that you'd be in favour of scrapping the driving licence entirely?

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 07-07-2014 03:18PM

Jesus. wrote: »

Why, how many times have you had to do that?

You make it sound like its a regular occurrence Clevey boy!!!

More than one occasion anyway, not always as an involved party though.

New drivers to display novice ‘N’ plates from next month

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