New drivers to display novice ‘N’ plates from next month

Mr_Red

Newly qualified drivers will have to display ’N’ plates for two years and will have a stricter penalty points system, from next month.
Novice drivers and those on learner permits face a fine of €60 if they are caught driving unaccompanied or not displaying ‘N’ or ‘L’ plates from August 1st.
The rule will only apply to motorists who acquire their first full licence after August 1st.
Woman admits trying to cheat driving theory test - twice
Under new legislation, driving unaccompanied and failing to display an L-place will incur two penalty points. Photograph: Matt Kavanagh Unaccompanied learner drivers at higher risk of road death
Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar: “The ability to spot hazards is a vital skill and marks out a really competent driver, and its inclusion in training and testing would help to focus attention on this skill at an early stage.” Photograph: Ramsey Cardy/SportsfileSimulated driving tests may be down the road
It will not apply to drivers who recently passed their test, or to individuals holding a full licence for one category of vehicle but seeking a permit for another.
Novice drivers will also be subject to the lower drink drive level and a penalty point limit of six points.
Currently a driver is put off the road if they accumulate 12 penalty points within a three-year period.
The changes are contained in the Road Traffic (No 2) Act 2013 and are designed to reduce the number of deaths and traffic incidents on our roads.
Other measures include allowing gardaí to take blood samples from unconscious drivers and to ask suspect drivers to “walk the line”.
Drivers will also face three penalty points for speeding, illegal use of a mobile phone and not wearing a seat belt.

So if you pass your Driving test . you still need to be accompanied for another 2 years ?

Supergurrier

What an absolute joke tbh.

I can't even find words to comment further

ibstar

soon to come. M and F plates for male and female

dougie-lampkin

That article is worded wrong. Novices won't have to be accompanied.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2014/a314.pdf

Mr_Red

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

That article is worded wrong. Novices won't have to be accompanied.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2014/a314.pdf

Thank you

davetherave

Mr_Red wrote: »

So if you pass your Driving test . you still need to be accompanied for another 2 years ?

It is just poorly phrased. The offence, from the Road Traffic Act 2014" is "Learner permit holder driving unaccompanied by qualified person". Nothing to do with Novice Drivers needing a full license person in the vehicle.

No Pants

I thought that the penalty for driving unaccompanied was higher than that already?

djimi

If they are going to bring in an N plate then it might be an idea to limit the class of car that an N driver can drive. Might help bring down insurance prices overall if inexperienced drivers werent able to jump into the most powerful car that they can afford to insure.

Is that three points for speeding going to be across the board, or just for L/N drivers?

djimi

No Pants wrote: »

I thought that the penalty for driving unaccompanied was higher than that already?

Its supposed to be €1000 fine is it not? Has anyone actually ever been fined for this?

Steviemoyne

I still can't believe that being accompanied is still a law. (I don't drive, I expect to have a full license next year however).

NIMAN

The North has something similar with an R plate, I don't see anything wrong with it, good idea imho.

Why is there so much resistance to motoring ideas in Ireland?

intellectual dosser

Can someone help me understand why a novice gets a penalty point 'allowance' of 7 points while someone on an existing full license can clock up 11 points in the same period and not get a ban?

Its not fair, and I'm struggling to see the logic.

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

Steviemoyne

NIMAN wrote: »

The North has something similar with an R plate, I don't see anything wrong with it, good idea imho.

Main thing I see wrong with it is how a person is expected to get to and from work if they live outside of a town. If such a person has nobody to travel with how are they expected to earn a living?

If learner drivers are at increased risk of being involved in an accident then in my mind it would make more sense to change the process of becoming a driver.

Starmixed

Mr_Red wrote: »

So if you pass your Driving test . you still need to be accompanied for another 2 years ?

Read the article. It's poorly written, I'll give you that.

What the article should say "fines of 60€ for learner drivers and novice drivers if they are caught unaccompanied or not displaying n plates respectively

djimi

Steviemoyne wrote: »

Main thing I see wrong with it is how a person is expected to get to and from work if they live outside of a town. If such a person has nobody to travel with how are they expected to earn a living?

If you need to drive then get a full license. There is nothing wrong with the current system; if I would change anything it would be to limit further how learners can drive in private vehicles, not give them more freedom to behave like they are a licensed driver.

kingtut

Why do they even bother bringing in these rules? They never enforce them!

L plate drivers driving alone, people on their phones while driving, people speeding .... all of these things I see every day yet rarely see anyone stopped (or even a guard around monitoring people).

It's purely just so they can say "we are making an effort" even though they are clearly not!

djimi

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Can someone help me understand why a novice gets a penalty point 'allowance' of 7 points while someone on an existing full license can clock up 11 points in the same period and not get a ban?

Its not fair, and I'm struggling to see the logic.

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

The logic being that this move effectively means that there are two stages of learning; the stage before you pass your test and the 2 years after you become a licensed driver. Its about getting it into peoples heads that passing a multiple choice exam and managing to take a leisurly potter around a town without hitting a kerb or messing up a three point turn does not mean that you are an experienced capable driver, and that your driving education continues after you have passed your test. If limiting the number of points allowed for an R driver means that newly qualified drivers are more conscious of their driving habits in the first couple of years after passing their test then hopefully the consequence of that will be that we see a better and safer generation of drivers coming through.

Nonoperational

Steviemoyne wrote: »

I still can't believe that being accompanied is still a law. (I don't drive, I expect to have a full license next year however).

It's actually a perfectly sensible idea. It's far more bizarre to think you can sit into a car having never driven before and go out on the roads.

Steviemoyne wrote: »

Main thing I see wrong with it is how a person is expected to get to and from work if they live outside of a town. If such a person has nobody to travel with how are they expected to earn a living?

Tough luck. Get a full license or sort something else. I had a full licence a few months after my 17th birthday, problem solved.

NIMAN

Steviemoyne wrote: »

I still can't believe that being accompanied is still a law. (I don't drive, I expect to have a full license next year however).

Accompanied while you are a learner? Shouldn't be any other way.

Accompanied when you pass your test? Not true.

NIMAN

Steviemoyne wrote: »

Main thing I see wrong with it is how a person is expected to get to and from work if they live outside of a town. If such a person has nobody to travel with how are they expected to earn a living?

That happens in every country, its not an Irish problem.

What most normal people would do is learn to drive, take a bus, or move to live nearer their work.

Why do Irish people always think they are being persecuted? Other people face the same issues.

Steviemoyne

I can see the point of going for the full license, it's what I eventually intend to do. I just think that the whole learner experience should either be improved or done away with rather than slapping on new rules.

djimi wrote: »

Its about getting it into peoples heads that passing a multiple choice exam and managing to take a leisurly potter around a town without hitting a kerb or messing up a three point turn does not mean that you are an experienced capable driver, and that your driving education continues after you have passed your test.

I can fully agree with that, I just think the entire system should be redesigned which probably won't happen.

Edit: (Clarity) By improved I mean I'd rather see everything bundled into the process of getting a provisional license instead of "continuing" there after. If that means more tests or redesigning the tests, on the road and/or on a pc then that's what I'd like to see myself.

munster87

So the difference between doing your test on the 31st of July and 1st of August this year is 2 years with an N plate on your car and the rule changes that o along with it?

pippip

I think what needs to happen is people need to start learning to drive at a younger age. Any of my mates from the country all learned to drive as soon as they legally could as they knew it was the only way to get around their area.
City people should be doing the same so when it comes time to get a job they don't suddenly realise they need a licence as the only place they can get work is outside the city. It should also be introduced into secondary level education, obviously not as part of the curriculum.

Learn to drive before you need to drive.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

munster87 wrote: »

So the difference between doing your test on the 31st of July and 1st of August this year is 2 years with an N plate on your car and the rule changes that o along with it?

Precisely

djimi

Steviemoyne wrote: »

I can see the point of going for the full license, it's what I eventually intend to do. I just think that the whole learner experience should either be improved or done away with rather than slapping on new rules.



I can fully agree with that, I just think the entire system should be redesigned which probably won't happen.

Edit: (Clarity) By improved I mean I'd rather see everything bundled into the process of getting a provisional license instead of "continuing" there after. If that means more tests or redesigning the tests, on the road and/or on a pc then that's what I'd like to see myself.

The new rules dont affect learners and in reality the N plate doesnt affect anyone either. If you are racking up 12 points in your first 24 months as a licensed driver then honestly it was a mistake to give you a license in the first place. Im not sure what it to gain from the lower alcohol limit, but its my honest opinion that it should make no difference either way; youre either drinking or you are driving, and there is little reason to be doing both.

TimeToShine

munster87 wrote: »

So the difference between doing your test on the 31st of July and 1st of August this year is 2 years with an N plate on your car and the rule changes that o along with it?

Yep.

Expect a record amount of sob stories via phone call to the RSA offices countrywide starting about...now.

NIMAN

munster87 wrote: »

So the difference between doing your test on the 31st of July and 1st of August this year is 2 years with an N plate on your car and the rule changes that o along with it?

I still don't see the problem, the new rules are perfectly acceptable and logical. The date's ireleevant, everything has to start on a certain date!

Are we looking for relaxed rules for something that has the potential to be lethal. I am all for strict rules for L and N drivers, its perfectly normal, all other countries do it, why do we want looser laws in this country?

The idea of a L driver driving on their own could only ever be seen as acceptable in Ireland. I learned to drive in NI, and the idea that I would have been allowed out on the roads myself as an L Driver would have scared the life out of me. Until you are trained and found to be capable of driving, you shouldn't be allowed to drive a half tonne of metal around at speed.

djimi

NIMAN wrote: »

Are we looking for relaxed rules for something that has the potential to be lethal. I am all for strict rules for L and N drivers, its perfectly normal, all other countries do it, why do we want looser laws in this country?

Because in Ireland we see driving as a god given right. Look at all the excuses we have for it; I need my car for work so I should be able to drive without a license, the pub is too far away so I should be able to have a few pints and drive home etc.

NIMAN

... and cue calls to Joe later today.

No Pants

djimi wrote: »

Its supposed to be €1000 fine is it not? Has anyone actually ever been fined for this?

Couldn't say. The only evidence I have is from the first series of Traffic Blues when it was on RTE. The showed one of their "blitzes" and then pretty much let everyone off on driving unaccompanied and not displaying L-plates. If I remember correctly, they were all young women shown. Cracking example there Mr. Garda. Cracking.

naughtysmurf

kingtut wrote: »

Why do they even bother bringing in these rules? They never enforce them!

L plate drivers driving alone, people on their phones while driving, people speeding .... all of these things I see every day yet rarely see anyone stopped (or even a guard around monitoring people).

It's purely just so they can say "we are making an effort" even though they are clearly not!

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

No Pants

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Can someone help me understand why a novice gets a penalty point 'allowance' of 7 points while someone on an existing full license can clock up 11 points in the same period and not get a ban?

Its not fair, and I'm struggling to see the logic.

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

Because they're novice drivers? How is it not fair? Every new driver from now on will have to go through the same process.

As for this road rage you mention, where is it happening?

nc19

ibstar wrote: »

soon to come. M and F plates for male and female

Wont need the F plate tbh.....just look for a phone stuck to an ear and its a safe bet its a woman

NIMAN

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

That would be your choice, same could be said for drunk driving, with lack of Gardai in some rural areas your chance of getting caught is quite low.

But if you decide to ignore it, and you crash your car, thats when the sh1t will hit the fan. Your insurance will be invalid and the costs will spiral for you.

No Pants

Steviemoyne wrote: »

Main thing I see wrong with it is how a person is expected to get to and from work if they live outside of a town. If such a person has nobody to travel with how are they expected to earn a living?

Be an adult and make alternative arrangements.

So I have a full car licence 4 years, and have a motorcycle learner permit currently. So that means when I pass my test for the bike, I have to wear an 'N' badge for another two years on my bike? B*locks to that, I'll take the fine if I get stopped!

No Pants

Deleted User wrote: »

So I have a full car licence 4 years, and have a motorcycle learner permit currently. So that means when I pass my test for the bike, I have to wear an 'N' badge for another two years on my bike? B*locks to that, I'll take the fine if I get stopped!

The article suggests otherwise.

OldNotWIse

djimi wrote: »

The new rules dont affect learners and in reality the N plate doesnt affect anyone either. If you are racking up 12 points in your first 24 months as a licensed driver then honestly it was a mistake to give you a license in the first place. Im not sure what it to gain from the lower alcohol limit, but its my honest opinion that it should make no difference either way; youre either drinking or you are driving, and there is little reason to be doing both.

Except it gives experienced drivers the go-ahead to treat you like sh1t - or maybe with an N they will just treat you like quasi sh1t.

No Pants

djimi wrote: »

If you need to drive then get a full license. There is nothing wrong with the current system; if I would change anything it would be to limit further how learners can drive in private vehicles, not give them more freedom to behave like they are a licensed driver.

I'd limit the number of learner permits that can be applied for. The first and second permits are valid for two years each. The third then lasts for one more year. I'd cap it at that. If you haven't managed to pass a test by then, driving isn't for you.

OldNotWIse

nc19 wrote: »

Wont need the F plate tbh.....just look for a phone stuck to an ear and its a safe bet its a woman

Indeed, and while we're on the subject of generalisations, we wont need an "M" either as that'll be the one driving up your hole :P

kingtut

ibstar wrote: »

soon to come. M and F plates for male and female

How about a T for transgender? Can't discriminate yadda yadda yadda

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

At the most they will clamp down for the first week and then turn a blind eye as per usual

djimi

NIMAN wrote: »

That would be your choice, same could be said for drunk driving, with lack of Gardai in some rural areas your chance of getting caught is quite low.

But if you decide to ignore it, and you crash your car, thats when the sh1t will hit the fan. Your insurance will be invalid and the costs will spiral for you.

The problem at the moment is that the **** doesnt hit the fan. I know several unaccompanied learners who have been involved in accidents (mostly through their own fault), the Gardai have arrived, they have been allowed to drive home unaccompanied and they faced no futher penalties either from the Gardai or their insurance companies. The color of your license is irrelevant in Ireland; you pass a multiple choice exam and you are effectively a fully licensed driver, and that is what is wrong with Irish motoring.

Akrasia

Why don't we just invite google in to launch the first full country pilot program for self driving cars. Then we're all happy, the publicans can get their drinkers back, the women can do their makeup. The men can masturbate on the way to work and nobody will ever die in a stupidity related car crash ever again.

Moneymaker

I for one never drove unaccompanied when I was a Learner.

Simple reason being I knew I did not have the experience to handle every situation that can arise on my own and I could be a potential risk to other motorists. 2 years with a full licence and I still don't consider myself an experienced and 100% polished driver.

I was definitely the exception to the rule however, the amount of L plate cars that are occupied by one person is almost laughable. 10 min drive to work, I will see anything from 3-5 of them. It's crazy.

Jesus.

No Pants wrote: »

I'd limit the number of learner permits that can be applied for. The first and second permits are valid for two years each. The third then lasts for one more year. I'd cap it at that. If you haven't managed to pass a test by then, driving isn't for you.

:rolleyes:

Jesus.

intellectual dosser wrote: »

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

Well said. That sense of superiority is already very prevalent judging by some of the comments on here and the often used "Irish drivers are etc" remark, even though those saying it are probably as bad as anyone.

H3llR4iser

Good in theory, and just complying with the rules existing in most EU countries; Nearly impossible to enforce in reality unless they begin stopping everybody to check their license. And mind you, they don't even stop the glaring violations right now; Friday morning was on the South Link towards the tunnel - Garda Traffic Corps car with lights on on the hard shoulders and two cars stopped; Yet, right in front of me there were not 1, not 2 but 3 "L" plate cars, each with only the driver inside and not one was stopped/checked.

As for the Irish attitude towards getting a license, I said it before: it's nothing short of shocking. This is a country that's almost totally dependent on the private car, yet people keep postponing getting a license with various excuses (don't need it/don't have time/costs too much...); Then the day comes when they absolutely need one to take a job...and start complaining about "unfair rules":rolleyes:

Sam Kade

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Agree 100%, if I was a learner or novice driver where I live, I'd just ignore it, it will not be enforced except for maybe the odd blitz from time to time, actually it's been a good while since I saw any guards around my way & I'm in Limerick suburbs

What about if you were in an accident? You will see the Gardaí then

jimgoose

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Can someone help me understand why a novice gets a penalty point 'allowance' of 7 points while someone on an existing full license can clock up 11 points in the same period and not get a ban?

Its not fair, and I'm struggling to see the logic.

I should say the idea of it is to encourage concentration and development in the mind of the small Grasshopper for the two years after acquiring a full driver's license. I see it as a largely constructive step towards getting into the cliggín of Irish poeple that a driver's license is something that is earned through hard work, learning and continuous personal development.

intellectual dosser wrote: »

My two cents, an N plate is only going to blow up the imaginary superiority of existing license holders, road rage gets worse.

The presence of learners and novices offends the true Gael who believes him/herself to be entitled by birth to a driver's license due to a chance off-the-cuff remark by Theobald Wolfe-Tone in 1794.

ogillman

Might be a stupid question but say I pass my test last day of July then don't actually get the pink license till 2nd week into August does that mean I'd have to display the N plates or would I not have to because I passed the test before August first?

NIMAN

OF course the law is hard to enforce, but like littering, drink driving, TV licence etc the hope is that they scare enough people to actually do what they want.

There will always be people who flaunt the law.