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Can we kill Irish once and for all

13567…21

Comments

  • #62
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    shane7218 wrote: »
    That is totally irrelevant. The point is there is no benefit to learning it in the real world for most people. Why not make everyone take physics

    It's not totally irrelevant. In fact its completely relevant. Of course there is benefit to learning an extra language, the language of this nation historically and the history and culture that goes with it. Is that really what you are trying to argue? Again the education system is there to create individuals with rounded minds in all areas: sciences, humanities, languages etc... Not to spit out people that will slot into industry. Would it be great if everyone learned physics? Sure, I'd advocate for that too. Still doesn't make Irish irrelevant.


  • #63
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    I haven't used feckin Pythagoras theorem ONCE since I left school.

    TAKE IT OFF THE CURRICULUM.

    AND FRENCH? Sure they all speak English over there now anyhow. Waste of me bleeding time.

    And history? Dates and that craic? Sure I have Wikipedia on me phone. Stupid fexking leaving cert.


  • #64
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    People that see the leaving cert as a "fair" measure of intelligence have no idea. Most of the subjects are entirely memory based and people learning stuff based off predictions. In what way is that any form of "fair" measure and how does Irish in any way indicate whether or not your suitable for say a physics course ... answer is it does not so please stop with the "fair " crap and that it's important for our heritage .. most people don't care about that


  • #65
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    It's not totally irrelevant. In fact its completely relevant. Of course there is benefit to learning an extra language, the language of this nation historically and the history and culture that goes with it. Is that really what you are trying to argue? Again the education system is there to create individuals with rounded minds in all areas: sciences, humanities, languages etc... Not to spit out people that will slot into industry. Would it be great if everyone learned physics? Sure, I'd advocate for that too. Still doesn't make Irish irrelevant.

    Well-Rounded ??? ... So forcing people to learn a dead language but not forcing them to do a science subject results in well-rounded individuals ?


  • #66
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    shane7218 wrote: »
    People that see the leaving cert as a "fair" measure of intelligence have no idea. Most of the subjects are entirely memory based and people learning stuff based off predictions. In what way is that any form of "fair" measure and how does Irish in any way indicate whether or not your suitable for say a physics course ... answer is it does not so please stop with the "fair " crap and that it's important for our heritage .. most people don't care about that
    Like it or not the ability to rote learn a large quantity of material and bring it up at will is a big part of intelligence.


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  • #67
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Like it or not the ability to rote learn a large quantity of material and bring it up at will is a big part of intelligence.

    Not really that is entirely memory based. I would like to see how much of that information people can actually apply... Also helps if its useful information that is worth learning off


  • #68
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    May I just point out that it's not a dead language but a dying language.


    Carry on.


  • #69
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    shane7218 wrote: »
    People that see the leaving cert as a "fair" measure of intelligence have no idea. Most of the subjects are entirely memory based and people learning stuff based of predictions. In what way is that any form of "fair" measure and how does Irish in any way indicate whether or not your suitable for say a physics course ... answer is it does not so please stop with the "fair " crap and that it's important for our heritage .. most people don't care about that

    The Leaving Certificate is probably the fairest system implemented in this country. I've argued this in another thread earlier and don't feel like doing it again but it's totally anonymous, meritocratic and graded according to objective marking schemes set down every single year.

    Memory is probably the most important basis of intelligence. There are other aspects of course like reasoning, application etc... They are all tested across subjects in the exams.

    The Leaving Cert doesn't measure peoples 'suitability' for a course. It's an assessment of your cumulative secondary education. Suitability is determined (rightly) by each persons choice. It's down to the individual to know if they are able to do a course. Do research, trust your instincts, make a mistake, learn from it, correct it. That's life.

    People do care about heritage. Just because you don't. Of course people do. Nonsense statement.


  • #70
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    The Leaving Certificate is probably the fairest system implemented in this country. I've argued this in another thread earlier and don't feel like doing it again but it's totally anonymous, meritocratic and graded according to objective marking schemes set down every single year.

    Memory is probably the most important basis of intelligence. There are other aspects of course like reasoning, application etc... They are all tested across subjects in the exams.

    The Leaving Cert doesn't measure peoples 'suitability' for a course. It's an assessment of your cumulative secondary education. Suitability is determined (rightly) by each persons choice. It's down to the individual to know if they are able to do a course. Do research, trust your instincts, make a mistake, learn from it, correct it. That's life.

    People do care about heritage. Just because you don't. Of course people do. Nonsense statement.


    Then give people the option and not force it on them. Then we would see how much people care


  • #71
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    shane7218 wrote: »
    Well-Rounded ??? ... So forcing people to learn a dead language but not forcing them to do a science subject results in well-rounded individuals ?

    No one is forced to do anything. You can end your education after the Junior Cert if you like. See where that might get you. The relevance of the Leaving Cert and further education is universally recognised. I already said earlier I would advocate for studying a science to be mandatory also. So that would be 4/6 subjects being mandatory. You can study as many subject as you want. If you are terrible at Maths, Irish, English then you can do ordinary level for each of of those subjects do the bare minimum and pass. At the same time you can concentrate on 6 other subjects that play to your strengths, score will in them and count them for the CAO. The point with having them mandatory is so everyone has a minimal education in each of these subjects by the time they have completed secondary school.


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  • #72
    Nemeses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    No one is forced to do anything. You can end your education after the Junior Cert if you like. See where that might get you.

    Pretty far to be quite honest with you.


  • #73
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    Nemeses wrote: »
    Pretty far to be quite honest with you.

    Perhaps for a couple of outlier cases. For the vast majority of people who end their education at that point, not very far at all.


  • #74
    Davarus Walrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    I read that lads like Flann O'Brien, James Joyce and Con Houlihan all had a grá for the Irish language.

    For that reason alone I wouldn't like to see Irish die out. While most of us don't speak Irish at all, it continues to have an influence on the development of the spoken language. And you'd hate to see a future where it has become so boring that a linguist from Trinity is heading down to East Clare or North Cavan to record people speaking english in their native accent before they pop their clogs.

    Before presenting his PhD in an accent that makes him sound like Ross from Friends.

    Balls to that.


  • #75
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    You can drone on about the relevance of the Leaving cert all day but the point still stands. Irish is only a benefit to a very small number of people so why should everyone have to do it. Plus its very unfair that people who are fluent in Irish have an advantage in nearly every subject over people that are not


  • #76
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    shane7218 wrote: »
    You can drone on about the relevance of the Leaving cert all day but the point still stands. Irish is only a benefit to a very small number of people so why should everyone have to do it. Plus its very unfair that people who are fluent in Irish have an advantage in nearly every subject over people that are not

    As my grandfather would say "In one ear and out both". I now see why languages are not your forte. You appear to lack ability to process and respond to debate. Instead your comeback is to restate your first point even though its been argued to be wrong and disregard everything that has been said after it.


  • #77
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    As my grandfather would say "In one ear and out both". I now see why languages are not your forte. You appear to lack ability to process and respond to debate. Instead your comeback is to restate your first point even though its been argued to be wrong and disregard everything that has been said after it.

    I think the reason why Irish should not be compulsory is pretty clear. How can I spell it for you more clearly?


  • #78
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    shane7218 wrote: »
    I think the reason why Irish should not be compulsory is pretty clear. How can I spell it for you more clearly?

    And myself and other posters have clearly explained why this reasoning is wrong. Don't think I can do it much clearer to be honest. You're flogging a dead horse.


  • #79
    Hotfail.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Hotfail.com


    When did you do your LC OP?


  • #80
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    shane7218 wrote: »
    I think the reason why Irish should not be compulsory is pretty clear. How can I spell it for you more clearly?


    You did indeed make it clear. You said it was because you were ****e at it.


  • #81
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Davarus Walrus wrote: »
    I read that lads like Flann O'Brien, James Joyce and Con Houlihan all had a grá for the Irish language.

    For that reason alone I wouldn't like to see Irish die out. While most of us don't speak Irish at all, it continues to have an influence on the development of the spoken language. And you'd hate to see a future where it has become so boring that a linguist from Trinity is heading down to East Clare or North Cavan to record people speaking english in their native accent before they pop their clogs.

    Before presenting his PhD in an accent that makes him sound like Ross from Friends.

    Balls to that.

    You could look at it the other way - yer holding up "progress"


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  • #82
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    You got it in one - I was quoting Shakespeare as Gaeilge - "Beware the ides of March dude."

    Didn't realise that there was a Gaeltacht in Stratford-On-Avon?


  • #83
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    And myself and other posters have clearly explained why this reasoning is wrong. Don't think I can do it much clearer to be honest. You're flogging a dead horse.

    You can say Irish is great for our heritage all day long but It has no practical use at all. That is reason enough to remove it as a compulsory subject and leave it as an option. If people really want to do it that's great. Plus I never once said I have a problem learning languages, I have a problem learning ones that are of no use to me


  • #84
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    I think it would be a tragedy to lose our national tongue and it's depressing to see the usual suspects lining up to reduce education and culture to a tedious checklist of what passes muster on a multinational company application form but the way the language is taught needs to be looked at.

    I was taught peig as an idiot 17 year old and rejected the depressing rote learning but I was recently in the blaskets and was blown away to the extent of rereading peig. My kids were fascinated by the island too

    Maybe we should approach our national tongue and culture from a lived cultural approach rather than a rote learning paradigm because it is a precious thing that should not die because of pretentious utilitarian whining.


  • #85
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Hotfail.com wrote: »
    When did you do your LC OP?

    3 years ago


  • #86
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    And here was me thinking you were speaking with the wisdom of an elder


  • #87
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    They way Irish is taught in school is really the only reason people dislike it .We need a big overhaul of the the Irish language pedagogy so that student's can actually speak it. Some people see the Irish language as embarrassing , but whats more embarrassing would be losing an important contingent of our Identity.


  • #88
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    shane7218 wrote: »
    Not really that is entirely memory based. I would like to see how much of that information people can actually apply... Also helps if its useful information that is worth learning off
    A good memory ie the ability to retain a large quantity of knowledge and recall it at will is a big part of intelligence.


  • #89
    Davarus Walrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    Enda Kenny is a fluent Irish speaker. Well, a very decent Irish speaker. He's in favour of removing it as a compulsory subject.

    It makes very little sense to have students sit through classes learning a language they neither want to learn or have no affinity for. At least at 2nd level education. But the language remains lovely and unique and precious. So the subject should be taught at primary level with a soft touch. Less rote learning of what are very obscure verb tables. The best thing that could happen to the development of the language is the removal of the idea that being able to speak Irish is associated with Nationalism, Republicanism and the idea we all dance at crossroads while eating mouldy spuds.


  • #90
    Hotfail.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Hotfail.com


    shane7218 wrote: »
    3 years ago

    If you did pass then I don't see what there's to complain about. Pass Irish is a dawdle, did you just give up on it in class completely or something?

    This is presuming you're not dyslexic/dyspraxic etc.


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  • #91
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A good memory ie the ability to retain a large quantity of knowledge and recall it at will is a big part of intelligence.

    Yeah of course it is .... but knowing how to apply it is much more important. Also helps if all this information you are learning is actually useful


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