The best possible Krav Maga/Self Defence training programme

lexluthor · 29-06-2014 03:07AM #1

Hi guys and gals,

Can you provide some feedback/suggestions in relation to the absolute bestkrav maga/another self defence training programme? Whether it’s with an instituteor personal trainer in Dublin.

Hand-to-hand combat training is something that's always fascinated me and Ithink it’s the right time for me to pursue this now. You need to be able to protectyourself and your loved ones.

I’m reasonably aware of the commitment required but like I say, it’ssomething I’m willing and able to take it up now, I have the patience for it,crucially.

One thing I don’t want is mediocrity, I want to excel at it, whatever ittakes, however long it takes. That’s why, I suppose, dedicated regular personaltraining is the best way forward?

Any constructive suggestions very much welcome.

Thanks.

lexluthor · 29-06-2014 03:24AM

I'd be very interested to hear about other types of training for other fighting styles that is as well. MMA/Muay Thai etc. Key thing is I want to be able to defend from street attacks - that's a necessity, and I want to be able to fight - that's a want. But I want to become an expert, so any feedback in relation to reaching expert level and steps I should take highly apprecaited.

Peetrik · 29-06-2014 10:47AM

lexluthor wrote: »

Can you provide some feedback/suggestions in relation to the absolute bestkrav maga/another self defence training programme? Whether it’s with an instituteor personal trainer in Dublin.

As you've asked specifically for suggestions for other styles... The best all round training you will get for hand to hand is MMA, absolutely no question.
If you want the best for striking or the best for grappling then I'd make other suggestions but for all round hand to hand. MMA.

Re personal trainers, you won't really learn that much more than you would in a normal class for the first month or so. I'd save your money until you get a handle on the basics and then invest in one or maximum two private lessons a week but keep going to group classes as it will give you a chance to practise what you've learned on other people that are at the same level as yourself.

If you let us know where you're based then people could suggest clubs to you.

Best of luck

arybvtcw0eolkf · 29-06-2014 11:02AM

Peetrik wrote: »

As you've asked specifically for suggestions for other styles... The best all round training you will get for hand to hand is MMA, absolutely no question.
If you want the best for striking or the best for grappling then I'd make other suggestions but for all round hand to hand. MMA.

Re personal trainers, you won't really learn that much more than you would in a normal class for the first month or so. I'd save your money until you get a handle on the basics and then invest in one or maximum two private lessons a week but keep going to group classes as it will give you a chance to practise what you've learned on other people that are at the same level as yourself.

If you let us know where you're based then people could suggest clubs to you.

Best of luck

What this lad says OP, except for the private lessons ~ personally I think the cost far outweighs the benefits for the beginner/novice.

If you go the KM route it will be difficult to know you've excelled or not since you won't be tested in competition, TBH KM is a lot of BS IMO.

lexluthor · 29-06-2014 11:09AM

thanks guys for the feedback.. so MMA it is then.. Makikomi i felt somewhat the same about KM looking at videos and stuff..i thought getting proper fight training would be the right way.. so lads im based in dundrum/sandyford area.. work around stephens green.. any suggestions.. ???

Peetrik · 29-06-2014 12:36PM

You might be better off asking in the MMA forum for MMA clubs.

Best of luck

Dave 101 · 29-06-2014 06:15PM

lexluthor wrote: »

thanks guys for the feedback.. so MMA it is then.. Makikomi i felt somewhat the same about KM looking at videos and stuff..i thought getting proper fight training would be the right way.. so lads im based in dundrum/sandyford area.. work around stephens green.. any suggestions.. ???

sbg city centre would be handy for you 5 min from stephens green

Gumbi · 29-06-2014 06:40PM

lexluthor wrote: »

thanks guys for the feedback.. so MMA it is then.. Makikomi i felt somewhat the same about KM looking at videos and stuff..i thought getting proper fight training would be the right way.. so lads im based in dundrum/sandyford area.. work around stephens green.. any suggestions.. ???

As you might have figured out by now, the best way to learn how to fight is to actually fight, be that in whatever arbitrary ruleset -Muay Thai, Kickboxing, MMA, BJJ, Judo etc.

These will teach you literally tried and true techniques, that have been proven to work (see MMA for the variations of each individual art to see what works in a limited ruleset).

FTA69 · 30-06-2014 12:06PM

Jagger Cool Swindler wrote: »

TBH KM is a lot of BS IMO.

But...but...but the Israeli Special Forces Ultimate Combat Squad use it!!

Dyr · 30-06-2014 12:08PM

Maybe read a few decent bukes on self defence OP, get your head around what it entails. Prevention being better than cure etc.

Tuisceanch · 30-06-2014 12:32PM

FTA69 wrote: »

But...but...but the Israeli Special Forces Ultimate Combat Squad use it!!

In fairness once they've pulverised the life out of the palestinians with their high tech weaponry bought by the american tax payer then there's very little hand to hand combat required as there's nobody left to resist. Slightly controversial and political I know but feel free to delete.

FTA69 · 30-06-2014 01:51PM

Your sarcasm detector is broken I think. In my eyes, KM is usually a mixture of bad striking and bad grabbling with some "ultra deadly" mysterious backstory thrown into it. If you want to learn a mix of all that stuff then just do MMA; you'll train a lot harder and a lot more intelligently.

irateghost · 30-06-2014 02:43PM

Still fighting on the street is a bad idea. Even if you are the next GSP and batter some tracksuit easily. It's only a matter of time before someone figures out a way to beat you regardless of your experience. Best thing is to run/walk away if someone's trying to start.

Tuisceanch · 30-06-2014 03:01PM

irateghost wrote: »

Still fighting on the street is a bad idea. Even if you are the next GSP and batter some tracksuit easily. It's only a matter of time before someone figures out a way to beat you regardless of your experience. Best thing is to run/walk away if someone's trying to start.

I like this attitude. It is often the case that a male will react to aggressive intent (perceived or real) by being confrontational which affords no room to the aggressor to modify his attitude. Often people who are in desperate situations will respond to being treated with respect,kindness and understanding and that will be sufficient to diffuse the situation. If that doesn't work then removing yourself from the situation as quickly as possible is a good course of action. Only in extreme circumstances when violence is unavoidable should you respond in a manner which is hopefully effective based on your training or spontaneous impulse if the case might be. By walking or running away from a situation the only thing you risk being damaged is your ego and what a pain in the arse that is anyway.

lexluthor · 30-06-2014 03:04PM

thanks folks for the tips.. im going to try sgb.. i just want to feel fitter and at the same time, learn a few self defence skills i suppose.. so mma is the way to go for me

PocketRocket91 · 02-07-2014 11:23AM

I have to disagree, mma is NOT self defence!
Self defence is not done in a ring, dojo or cage. There are rules in place in all martial arts, there are no rules on the street. If someone eye gouges or bites you on the street theres no ref or instructor to stop the fight.
Self defence is 90% mental and 10% physical. You have to learn about fear and aggression.

A black belt in any mixed martial art could be jumped on the street and freeze in fear because they are not exposed to that situation. Spinning back kicks and oma palatas do not come out on the street.

I could discuss this for hours but in short if you want to learn self defence then I recommend Hard Target Self Defence, Aidan Carroll is in my opinion the best combative instructor you will find in Ireland. He learned from the best like Peter Constantine, Geoff Thompson etc. Check it out and see for yourself. If you don't believe me then I would challenge any dan graded martial artist to step onto the Hard Target mats and have their idea of "self defence" and street combatives completely turned around!

pablohoney87 · 02-07-2014 11:29AM

PocketRocket91 wrote: »

I have to disagree, mma is NOT self defence!
Self defence is not done in a ring, dojo or cage. There are rules in place in all martial arts, there are no rules on the street. If someone eye gouges or bites you on the street theres no ref or instructor to stop the fight.
Self defence is 90% mental and 10% physical. You have to learn about fear and aggression.

A black belt in any mixed martial art could be jumped on the street and freeze in fear because they are not exposed to that situation. Spinning back kicks and oma palatas do not come out on the street.

I could discuss this for hours but in short if you want to learn self defence then I recommend Hard Target Self Defence, Aidan Carroll is in my opinion the best combative instructor you will find in Ireland. He learned from the best like Peter Constantine, Geoff Thompson etc. Check it out and see for yourself. If you don't believe me then I would challenge any dan graded martial artist to step onto the Hard Target mats and have their idea of "self defence" and street combatives completely turned around!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDgX93JQKvo

Because this doesnt look like MMA at all :eek:

Peetrik · 02-07-2014 11:42AM

PocketRocket91 wrote: »

there are no rules on the street. If someone eye gouges or bites you on the street theres no ref or instructor to stop the fight.

Ugh... how many times does this nonsense have to be shot down on here.

1. Rules on the street.
A martial artist also doesn't have to abide by any rules on the street. He is also free to eye gouge or bite and so this point is meaningless. But... I'd put my money on the guy who is sparring at the top level in order to compete on landing that no rules bollock hoof over the guy who does slow motion eye gouges every time.

2. Eye gouges and biting.
Do you drill actual eye gouging and biting full force every sparring session? No... of course you don't. Neither do you stand there and kick each other full force in the balls each sparring session. That would be retarded.
So unless you are drilling something full contact every day you don't actually know any of these moves. You just know OF them.
Again, my money is on the MMA guy thumping the head off you with punches he has drilled every day before you can get near his eyes.

I could go on and on but this whole debate has been put to bed long ago.

FTA69 · 02-07-2014 12:05PM

PocketRocket91 wrote: »

If you don't believe me then I would challenge any dan graded martial artist to step onto the Hard Target mats and have their idea of "self defence" and street combatives completely turned around!

I can guarantee you a competitive MMA fighter would be more than well able for them.

This "too deadly for the cage" stuff is a load of ****. Funnily enough while I was doing door-work, the guys who were the most effective were the boxers, the MMA fighters and the wrestlers. They weren't people who waxed lyrical about ripping people's balls out or how they learned from some Israeli how to poke someone in the eye.

PocketRocket91 · 02-07-2014 12:09PM

Oh we totally use mma in the Hard Target system no doubt. What I meant was you're not going to learn self defence from an mma club, sorry my apologies if it came across the wrong way. We use a hybrid mma system compiled from Judo, Aikido, Krav Maga, BJJ, and many more. We train for all situations, standing, ground, takedowns, small spaces, large spaces, car jacking, bars, night clubs and many many more. I have loads more videos of our classes but they have to be edited, this video is very old but still effective

Thats what we call a FIST suit drill, its the closest thing we can get to a real street fight situation.

Doug Cartel · 02-07-2014 12:10PM

I think the main problem with MMA as self defence is not that it lacks in aggression or deadly moves. If anything it has too much aggression. The problem with MMA is that it teaches you to stand and fight, and doesn't teach you how to de-escalate a situation or avoid danger in the first place. Thing is, no one seems to be interested in learning these skills and there's very few places that teach it competently.

pablohoney87 · 02-07-2014 12:12PM

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I think the main problem with MMA as self defence is not that it lacks in aggression or deadly moves. If anything it has too much aggression. The problem with MMA is that it teaches you to stand and fight, and doesn't teach you how to de-escalate a situation or avoid danger in the first place. Thing is, no one seems to be interested in learning these skills and there's very few places that teach it competently.

Also a self defence instructor is rarely a psychologist or expert in human behaviour.

FTA69 · 02-07-2014 12:29PM

PocketRocket91 wrote: »

Oh we totally use mma in the Hard Target system no doubt. What I meant was you're not going to learn self defence from an mma club, sorry my apologies if it came across the wrong way. We use a hybrid mma system compiled from Judo, Aikido, Krav Maga, BJJ, and many more. We train for all situations, standing, ground, takedowns, small spaces, large spaces, car jacking, bars, night clubs and many many more. I have loads more videos of our classes but they have to be edited, this video is very old but still effective Thats what we call a FIST suit drill, its the closest thing we can get to a real street fight situation.

If you're going to learn MMA then wouldn't you be better off doing so in an MMA context. I'd prefer to learn boxing from a boxing coach and Judo from a competitive grappler than a mish-mash of this thrown together and packaged as deadly self-defense to be honest.

Gumbi · 02-07-2014 01:07PM

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I think the main problem with MMA as self defence is not that it lacks in aggression or deadly moves. If anything it has too much aggression. The problem with MMA is that it teaches you to stand and fight, and doesn't teach you how to de-escalate a situation or avoid danger in the first place. Thing is, no one seems to be interested in learning these skills and there's very few places that teach it competently.

Dunno about too much aggression. There is a huge difference between a street fight and a fight in the ring or on the mat. (That doesn't mean skills learned on the mat aren't absolutely applicable on the street - ofc they are!) Just because people here are portraying MMA as good for self defense by no means implies they are recommending back spinning kicks to the head or anything like that.

The point being made is that MMA teaches fight skills that work, simple as. How you use them on the street is a slightly different matter, and of course the psychological aspect of self defense comes into it. But none of this is contrary to the fact that these skills work, it's how you use them that matters.

I'm not sure I'm making myself clear, hopefully I am though!

arybvtcw0eolkf · 02-07-2014 01:30PM

PocketRocket91 wrote: »

I have to disagree, mma is NOT self defence!
Self defence is not done in a ring, dojo or cage. There are rules in place in all martial arts, there are no rules on the street. If someone eye gouges or bites you on the street theres no ref or instructor to stop the fight.
Self defence is 90% mental and 10% physical. You have to learn about fear and aggression.

A black belt in any mixed martial art could be jumped on the street and freeze in fear because they are not exposed to that situation. Spinning back kicks and oma palatas do not come out on the street.

I could discuss this for hours but in short if you want to learn self defence then I recommend Hard Target Self Defence, Aidan Carroll is in my opinion the best combative instructor you will find in Ireland. He learned from the best like Peter Constantine, Geoff Thompson etc. Check it out and see for yourself. If you don't believe me then I would challenge any dan graded martial artist to step onto the Hard Target mats and have their idea of "self defence" and street combatives completely turned around!

I'm in the defence forces, I've trained Krav Maga with the IDF in Netanya, Israel in 2000-2001 and I'm also an unarmed combat training instructor.

I run a small MMA/BJJ/Judo training group in work too.

And lets just take this here;

Self defence is 90% mental and 10% physical

90% of the time when someone is going to attack you they'll attack you, and take it from someone who does this crap for real 10% physical/technique training against compliant partners wearing redman suits aren't gonna be worth a fiddler's feck to anyone when they're attacked in real life.

I've also worked door work for over twenty years, I've more than a little bit of experience to draw on when I say what you've posted is pure Walter Mitty rubbish.

Chance The Rapper · 02-07-2014 01:37PM

Jagger Cool Swindler wrote: »

I'm in the defence forces, I've trained Krav Maga with the IDF in Netanya, Israel in 2000-2001 and I'm also an unarmed combat training instructor.

I run a small MMA/BJJ/Judo training group in work too.

And lets just take this here;

90% of the time when someone is going to attack you they'll attack you, and take it from someone who does this crap for real 10% physical/technique training against compliant partners wearing redman suits aren't gonna be worth a fiddler's feck to anyone when they're attacked in real life.

I've also worked door work for over twenty years, I've more than a little bit of experience to draw on when I say what you've posted is pure Walter Mitty rubbish.

Which would you recommend in terms of mma vs Krav Maga for someone who wants to be able to defend themselves on the street?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 02-07-2014 01:56PM

Chance The Rapper wrote: »

Which would you recommend in terms of mma vs Krav Maga for someone who wants to be able to defend themselves on the street?

Train with ever you find most fun tbh.

But DON'T go paying crazy money for two day courses, I just checked out one mentioned in this thread and they're charging someone €120 for two days (you can do the course with no experience).. Now €120 for two days of anyone's time isn't a whole lot of money if you have €120 and can afford to take two days off to attend.

But if you want to learn to fight then I'd say MMA (between those two), followed by Muay Thai to be a tough motherf*cker.

Doug mentioned MMA being too aggressive, good. More people need to learn to be more aggressive and learn to assert themselves better.. What any club can never teach you is violence, because violence and the intent to f*ck you up can not be replicated in any kind of club atmospher ~ some people might ask 'then how come an MMA fight can be so bloodied?.. Well thats a will to win, don't mistake the two.

And when you're winning/beating someone in a street fight its easy to withdraw ~ simply stop fighting, its that simple ~ stop hitting the fool who attacked you, its hardly rocket science.. If you've done a good enough job you won't even have to run away since he won't be chasing after you for more!.

Thats it, I hate this discussions re. self defence and most esp. KM.

Niall Keane · 02-07-2014 01:59PM

there shoud be an auto response for these threads.

I'm sure if fantasy compliant martial arts worked the KM brigade et al would have it plastered it all over the internet, you know reputable newspaper articles or news clips with caught on camera footage of how some woman beat off much larger male rapists etc. with a single kick to the balls and an eye gouge. The absense of such doesn't indeed prove that this stuff doesn't work, but with 7 billion people on earth one is forced to draw conclusions?

Everlong1 · 02-07-2014 02:09PM

Did KM before and found it enjoyable and easy to learn. Tried a beginner's MMA course and dropped out after five weeks. It seemed to be all ground wrestling which to my mind was totally unrealistic for a street scenario.

Toying with the idea of doing Muay Thai.

Blackthorn Fight School · 03-07-2014 12:52PM

I dont want to get into the which style is best for self defence debate.

I have trained with a number of instructors and in a number of styles when it comes to what works like most things it is down to training. MMA as a style is a great thing for learning a base and a mix of styles there are of course flaws with it eg. not trained to be aware of multiple opponents or weapons etc. But i would choose it above most other styles. Even with what my group does while we deal mainly with weapons i would still prefer my guys to train in other styles as well, especially MMA. Ground fighting and effective grappling is crucial to know especially how to get up in a fight. Either way some training is good to have but it can also create a false sense of confidence. Find something you enjoy and try keep yourself out of bad situations but if you want to train to deal with being an encounter in the adrenal state you need to train in something that can offer you that.

Some of the best self defence you can learn is track and field. Get fit be aware of what is going on around you and get away.

Gumbi · 03-07-2014 01:11PM

Everlong1 wrote: »

Did KM before and found it enjoyable and easy to learn. Tried a beginner's MMA course and dropped out after five weeks. It seemed to be all ground wrestling which to my mind was totally unrealistic for a street scenario.

Toying with the idea of doing Muay Thai.

That's only one aspwct of the sport. MMA also teaches you how to prevent going to the ground and to keep the fight standing too if that is your desire.

The best possible Krav Maga/Self Defence training programme

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