I'm a red light hypocrite

Stabshauptmann · 02-07-2014 09:48AM #1

SO - as hypocritical as this is; I believe that it is ok to break red lights in some very specific circumstances.

If cars can only approach the junction from one direction or its a pedestrian light on a straight road AND I have clear sight of each angle at a junction AND there is no traffic and no pedestrians AND its a junction I'm familiar with AND I arrived at the junction just as the light turned red so I know how long it will be before it changes green.

I know some other cyclists will break a red light "if they can make it" - which often means motorists who have the right of way hitting their breaks or pedestrians being unable to cross the road. This annoys the bejaysus out of me.

On my way into work today, while I was stopped at a red light, I saw the latter type of cyclist make a very dangerous manoeuvre which necessitated a car breaking and then beeping his horn in annoyance. I was annoyed too, because it gives the rest of us a bad name and I was considering saying something to the cyclist when if I caught up with him at the next light (presuming he'd stop!) when a third cyclist came up behind me and started being quite aggressive because I broke a light 1km back. I was (even to my own surprise) quite calm and explained my perspective - it was a junction where cars can only come from one direction and I had waited until all the cars had gone. I wasn't a nuisance to anybody. But the third cyclist just shouted "You're ruining it for every one else".

Was he right?
Is there ever a justifiable reason for breaking a red light.

The reason I broke the light is because I knew when the lights turned green two lanes of traffic behind me would merge into one, and I felt it was safer to get out in front of the cars.

Or is the only way to hone in and weed out those who are reckless to insist that in every circumstance you obey every light.

Pinch Flat · 02-07-2014 09:59AM

At the moment red means stop and it's illegal to break one.

Some countries allow red lights to be treated as yield signs - a common sense approach that could work here

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

Borderfox · 02-07-2014 10:01AM

I stop at them all, not many out my way but even when I cycled through the city centre I would stop at all the red lights.

crosstownk · 02-07-2014 10:04AM

When I'm on the bike I treat traffic lights exactly as I would when driving. Red means STOP.

Alek · 02-07-2014 10:08AM

I stop at all red lights but I wouln't give out to somebody doing this in a safe manner.

equivariant · 02-07-2014 10:12AM

OP, I think that the problem with your reasoning is that it is a slippery slope. Of course there are circumstances where it is safe to break a light but that doesn't mean that it is right to do so. One reason is that if everyone started breaking lights based on judgements about when it is safe then it will soon be very unsafe for everyone.

Also there is the fact that even if you know you are safe breaking the light, it still annoys many motorists who may see you, thus confirming their prejudices about cyclists.

Having said all that, I have broken a few lights myself, but I know I was in the wrong

Chips Lovell · 02-07-2014 10:14AM

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

...I saw the latter type of cyclist make a very dangerous manoeuvre ...

I doubt there's many red light jumping cyclists pulling moves they know are dangerous. They, just like you, are breaking the lights because they think its safe to do so. This is the problem with ignoring the law because you think your own judgement is superior.

K.Flyer · 02-07-2014 10:23AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

At the moment red means stop and it's illegal to break one.

Some countries allow red lights to be treated as yield signs - a common sense approach that could work here.

It is hard enough at the moment to get it into some peoples heads that Red really means Stop, without going and giving them (all road users) some leeway by allowing them to break a Red under certain circumstances.

Pinch Flat · 02-07-2014 10:26AM

K.Flyer wrote: »

It is hard enough at the moment to get it into some peoples heads that Red really means Stop, without going and giving them (all road users) some leeway by allowing them to break a Red under certain circumstances.

Seems to work in other jurisdictions though. Similar to turning on a red in the states.

Eamonnator · 02-07-2014 10:30AM

By your reasoning, is it OK for me to break traffic lights, when I'm driving, when it's safe to do so?

the.red.baron · 02-07-2014 10:43AM

knock yourself out

laraghrider · 02-07-2014 10:49AM

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Is there ever a justifiable reason for breaking a red light.

The only justifiable reason for breaking a red light is when the lights are broken and are all stuck on red. This happened to me at a junction two days ago. Apart from that NO. There is never a justifiable reason for breaking a light regardless of what your own judgement may be.

rollingscone · 02-07-2014 10:50AM

My attitude to red lights was changed permanently back when I first started posting here and someone made clear the importance of predictability to road safety.

Relatively few motorists set out to do harm to cyclists. And some of the aggression we experience is the net result of their frustration with the additional burden placed on them by having to try and track where RLJers, salmon, ninjas and kerbhoppers are.

Most of their aggression and bad behaviour in turn is taken out on the more easily tracked lawful cyclist.

Whatever about the viability of other traffic control systems there are significant negative impacts from mass cyclist disobedience of the one we have.

These are not neutralised by the bad behaviour of other road users.

Esho · 02-07-2014 10:50AM

I also break pedestrian lights when there are no pedestrians, but stop at all other lights (though I've been stopped by AGS for doing this).

On my commute, I've seen one or two cyclists only - and ever - stop at the two empty pedestrian crossings, that are not on a junction.
Do any cyclists stop these empty pedestrian crossings?

Like the OP, I can't get over some of the crazy, dangerous "I own the road, yield to me" stunts pulled by some cyclists, eg, pulling out into the middle of the road to turn right without looking or indicating, overtaking another cyclist while they are overtaking a cyclist when there is traffic behind them, generally disregarding motorists and expecting them to pull their brakes.

That said, I haven't seen anything crazy like this for a while.

.ak · 02-07-2014 10:52AM

I treat them like I would as a pedestrian. I stop at them, and if there's no traffic or pedestrians around and it's clearly safe, I'll cross through them, but only if there's no blind spots or oncoming traffic (you never know when you might slip).

Explosive_Cornflake · 02-07-2014 10:55AM

You can't break a red and expect others not to do so.
I'm in the same boat, there's some I'll skip through, but most of the time I stop. For this reason though, I can never complain to other cyclists.
There are some reds I go through in the car also. Ones from business parks at the weekends when there are no cars about. It's not right either and I can't complain.

If you want to lead by example you need to be exemplary

mp31 · 02-07-2014 10:56AM

I try to position myself so I can see the opposing lights whilst stopped - this usually means ahead of my stop line which I suppose is breaking my red light. When the opposing lights change from green to orange and there is no-one coming I move off. This allows me time to clip-in, de-wobble (is that a word) and start moving before the other cars so that I can take my position on the road without having any cars beside me.

mathie · 02-07-2014 10:59AM

Esho wrote: »

I also break pedestrian lights when there are no pedestrians, but stop at all other lights (though I've been stopped by AGS for doing this).

On my commute, I've seen one or two cyclists only - and ever - stop at the two empty pedestrian crossings, that are not on a junction.
Do any cyclists stop these empty pedestrian crossings?

Like the OP, I can't get over some of the crazy, dangerous "I own the road, yield to me" stunts pulled by some cyclists, eg, pulling out into the middle of the road to turn right without looking or indicating, overtaking another cyclist while they are overtaking a cyclist when there is traffic behind them, generally disregarding motorists and expecting them to pull their brakes.

That said, I haven't seen anything crazy like this for a while.

Guilty as charged.
I think I may have a mental imbalance but I treat all stops as a chance to do more training. My commute is only 35 minutes so if I can add in a bit more effort then I'm happy.

Just this morning I'd about four people pass me at on set of pedestrian lights ... I start to think I'm doing it wrong.

But then I put the head down and fly past pretending I'm on the last straight of the Tour de France.

Granted I may be beating a 65-year old who is tilting from side to side on a fixie.

punisher5112 · 02-07-2014 11:12AM

RED means STOP there is no two ways about it.

They have fitted some lights in the city with small style traffic lights half way down the pole with bike symbol as a way to stop the idiots cycling through.

I have been hit twice walking on a green man by cyclists running the lights.

Also why do some think its fine cycling the wrong way up the road and also especially one way streets.

I hate anyone jumping the lights motor vehicle or not.

mrcheez · 02-07-2014 11:22AM

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

The reason I broke the light is because I knew when the lights turned green two lanes of traffic behind me would merge into one, and I felt it was safer to get out in front of the cars.

This. In the UK they have these little bike stop lights (I've seen the odd few around Dublin now) that turn green for bikes before turning green for cars around 5 seconds later, thus allowing the bike to get in front of the car which is a far safer place to be at launch.

Crocked · 02-07-2014 11:31AM

As tempting as it is to treat red lights in the same manner as I would as a pedestrian, ie cross on a red once I'd checked the way was clear, as a cyclist I need to accept that I'm a road user in the same way a car is and to obey the rules of the road in the same way.

I even lost a commuter race this morning due to a RLJ!!

I've only a short 5k commute into work but even on that short distance I'd shave 3-4mins off that journey if I went through red lights. End of the day though it annoys the hell out of a lot of other road users and the roads definitely need as few angry road users as we can get for everyones sake

rollingscone · 02-07-2014 11:33AM

mrcheez wrote: »

This. In the UK they have these little bike stop lights (I've seen the odd few around Dublin now) that turn green for bikes before turning green for cars around 5 seconds later, thus allowing the bike to get in front of the car which is a far safer place to be at launch.

Why is it safer to be out in front? At tricky junctions take the lane behind a car. You'll always be able to take off faster than the car behind you and they can clearly see you (I usually look at the driver behind me and signal where I'll be going) then once you move off move back to the left as soon as it's safe to do so (check behind you).

mrcheez · 02-07-2014 11:39AM

rollingscone wrote: »

Why is it safer to be out in front?

Because the bike is clearly visible. I know when I'm driving in the car and a cyclist pulls up to my side I may not see them if I have a passenger in the seat. Hence when I'm cycling I always remember what drivers would prefer (i.e. to be able to clearly see the bike).

Clearly this is the thinking behind the UK cycle lights system. Can you explain why they would allow bikes to go first if not for safety reasons?

check_six · 02-07-2014 11:41AM

I do stop for lights, but I'd be a strong sympathiser for the Idaho stop system mentioned earlier (red light is equivalent to a stop sign for bikes).

Weirdly, if the lights are broken (as in not lit, not just stuck) I just blitz through the junction with a quick look around ahead of time. A peculiar dichotomy.

F7Z · 02-07-2014 11:42AM

There's no licence plate on my bike if you know what I'm sayin

carthoris · 02-07-2014 11:46AM

F7Z wrote: »

There's no licence plate on my bike if you know what I'm sayin

Yes we do. Do you know what we are hearing ?

rollingscone · 02-07-2014 11:52AM

mrcheez wrote: »

Because the bike is clearly visible. I know when I'm driving in the car and a cyclist pulls up to my side I may not see them if I have a passenger in the seat. Hence when I'm cycling I always remember what drivers would prefer (i.e. to be able to clearly see the bike).

Clearly this is the thinking behind the UK cycle lights system. Can you explain why they would allow bikes to go first if not for safety reasons?

Are you somehow magically more visible than when you queue centre of lane like normal traffic?

Green&Red · 02-07-2014 12:20PM

mp31 wrote: »

I try to position myself so I can see the opposing lights whilst stopped - this usually means ahead of my stop line which I suppose is breaking my red light. When the opposing lights change from green to orange and there is no-one coming I move off. This allows me time to clip-in, de-wobble (is that a word) and start moving before the other cars so that I can take my position on the road without having any cars beside me.

This is deadly dangerous, how many cars break red lights now? 2-3 at every junction and they're picking up speed to try and make the light although its already gone red

mrcheez · 02-07-2014 12:23PM

rollingscone wrote: »

Are you somehow magically more visible than when you queue centre of lane like normal traffic?

I'd rather be in the bike lane than centre of traffic, particularly if there are nervous drivers about.

rollingscone · 02-07-2014 12:30PM

mrcheez wrote: »

I'd rather be in the bike lane than centre of traffic, particularly if there are nervous drivers about.

What's your logic for that? Surely they're more likely to make a mistake left or right than to accelerate into the back of you. Being front and centre reassures the driver behind you because they don't have to search you out.

ezra_pound · 02-07-2014 12:36PM

Rox-aa-anne

I'm a red light hypocrite

Comments