Golf Stats Book: Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah but unless you are hitting your approaches to within 15 feet then you aren't going to hole any more than ~50% of those birdie chances anyway.
(PUTTING FROM - 10-15' Sergio tops out at 42% made)

True, but you'll have all but secured your par anyway.

GreeBo wrote: »

And I'm specifically talking about missing the green but not in trouble.
(SCRAMBLING FROM 20-30 YARDS Mike Weir 69%)

If I could scramble like Mike Weir, I'd be quite happy to miss greens galore. But I can't.

GreeBo wrote: »

At amateur level (anything above single figures) your score is far, FAR more about not having bogeys and worse than it is about missing birdie chances.

Agreed, but the easiest way to make par is two putts IMO!!

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying in general.......**

**except I rate hitting greens as very important

GreeBo wrote: »

In one of my recent rounds I think I had 1 GIR and was 3 under CSS (off 10)

That is obviously an exception.

GreeBo wrote: »

Obviously hitting more greens should give you a better chance at scoring well, but it doesnt necessarily mean that you will.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean you will on a round by round basis but in the long term, on average, more greens = better scoring.

Loire wrote: »

Guys,

Sorry for detouring off topic, but how do you collect your stats?

Loire.

Several phone apps that you can just enter the stuff in after playing. I usually mark FIR, GIR and putts on my card after playing.

You can also embelish your competition rounds on Howdidido, and then compare your stats with golfers in similar and different categories.

Panrich wrote: »

I use an application called Golflogix. I have found it very accurate for distances against the course markers and it lets you select the different clubs etc.It was brilliant but they updated it recently and it has really taken a turn for the worse. It now takes an age for a GPS fix.

Cool, are you using Par 3's as part of your average to as having an average drive of 139 is leaving you way back surely?

Panrich wrote: »

The application eliminates the par 3s from the stats. Consistent 0/18 GIR tells the sad story.

But there is no way you could be reaching greens with how far you are back surely? You shouldn't even be going for them tbh!

Panrich wrote: »

Don't want to take this OT but to clarify, I'm not pulling out a fairway wood on a short par 4 just to try to get up beside the green in regulation after another inadequate drive. Instead if I have 250 left, I'll hit a 5i followed by a PW/9i or whatever.

Surley you are the perfect example of someone that will improve so much if you gain distance off the tee. With the right equipment an average drive over 200 should be acheivable for everyone.

Panrich wrote: »

GIR is king and that cannot be denied as you cannot score well from bunkers, deep rough, drains and behind trees.

You can often be closer to the hole but off the green than someone who is on in regulation.
GIR is very different then being in a drain or behind a tree.

Panrich wrote: »

Here's some stats from my last two rounds:

2 rounds isnt enough to tell you anything

Panrich wrote: »

I think it was Lee Trevino that once said that "there are two things not long for this world; Dogs who chase cars and golfers who chip for pars".

Pro golf is a million miles away from amateur golf on most stats.
Not to mention that chipping for par is very different than missing a GIR...

ssbob wrote: »

Mike while I agree with your point for Panrich, using the right equipment means nothing without technique.

So does this mean that if your technique isn't great, equipment doesn't matter?

This has been one of the big debates in the golf world this year, what is more important the short game/putting or the long game? Generally the people claiming that the long game is more important then the short game are using figures compiled by Broadie and Rich Hunt to back up their argument while those who claim the short game is more important are using individual rounds or individual players to back up their argument.

The first thing to note is that each shot is important in golf and an improvement in any facet of the game will lead to an improvement in scores. But what each player needs to find out is what will lead to the most improvement for them.

In general hitting more greens will lead to lower scores. Hitting greens is dependent on two things, ball in play off the tee and approach shots.

If the average player wants to improve the easiest thing is to get the ball in play off the tee more often, which leads to more greens and lower scores. Improving the long game is more important to lowering scores.

Improving the short game and putting will also lead to lower scores but not as much as the long game. It's much easier for a player to mask a bad short game with a good long game and get good results. It's very difficult to recover from a bad long game with a good short game. Yes there are players out there that do this but there are far more of the others even on tour.

If you still aren't convinced just ask yourself would you prefer to have the long game of a tour pro or the short game of a tour pro? Which would lower your score more dramatically? The average players short game combined with a tour pros long game will still lead to lower scores, most definitely under par on a regular basis. The average players long game combined with a tour pros short game would struggle to come near par.

No but how often have you duffed a chip and followed it with a blade through the green and then a chip back and 3 putts.......

That's 6 strokes, a bad drive doesn't always lead to an OB!!!



Basically what we are saying is that Long and Short game are equally important!!!!:D

GreeBo wrote: »

The pros dont agree with that though.
I distinctly remember a quote from one of the Bob Rotella books where one of his guys (I think maybe Tom Kite?) reckoned he could play a game with an amateur, each using the others drives and he would still beat them.

I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty quickly with all aspects of the game other than putting.

As soon as your drives arent in trouble, getting them from the rough to the semi or semi to fairway or fairway to middle of fairway isnt really going to do that much for you score on that hole.

The closer your approach gets to the hole the better your score will be, but the reality here is that we are not going to start sticking them to < 15 feet with any great regularity, at least at mid-am level.

But as soon as you start holing more putts you score gets better. Take 1 less putt per round and your score is better by 1.

Hit one more FIR or GIR and chances are you score doesnt change.

How does hitting one more green not lower your score? Does the one less putt arise because of better putting or because you hit it closer to the hole?