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Equality, sexism, feminism, etc. *Read Mod Note in 1st Post**

24567

Comments

  • #32
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Muise... wrote: »
    I've an idea Dave! If Twitter is a scary hairy nest of harpies, why not write a stern letter to Sir at the Irish Times to point out Mullally's mistake/deliberate skewing of facts to suit her agenda. I look forward to reading it.

    Yours etc.,

    Muise...
    The Headdesk,
    AH

    Bit hysterical there. Feel free to contribute without the whithering sarcasm. My posts are in good faith.

    Wish I had thought to write in about it at the time.


  • #33
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    I would like to see an end to the way society seemingly has no issue whatsoever with the way women often brazenly, and unashamedly, objectify us men. We are not mere toys to be pawed at. Speaking of toys, I also take issue with those phallic shaped ones (which most women own, in one form or another) which really just suggest that men's worth is nothing more than that of an erect penis.

    It's disgraceful, Joe, sends the wrong message.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50wYFrfal1s


  • #34
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Speaking of toys, I also take issue with those phallic shaped ones (which most women own, in one form or another) which really just suggest that men's worth is nothing more than that of an erect penis.

    Good for you but touch my toys and you'll be a sorry, sorry man! :mad:

    Vibrators FTW!


  • #35
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    I would like to see an end to the way society some people seemingly has no issue whatsoever with the way some women often brazenly, and unashamedly, objectify us men me. We are I am not mere toys to be pawed at. Speaking of toys, I also take issue with those phallic shaped ones (which most some women own, in one form or another) which really just suggest that men's worth is nothing more than that of an erect penis women (and even some men) will derive pleasure from their use.

    It's disgraceful, Joe, sends the wrong message.


    FYP there Wisha. Some men, and equally some women, have no issue with being objectified, and some people even make quite a good living from it - equality right there.


  • #36
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    I would like to see an end to the way society seemingly has no issue whatsoever with the way women often brazenly, and unashamedly, objectify us men. We are not mere toys to be pawed at. Speaking of toys, I also take issue with those phallic shaped ones (which most women own, in one form or another) which really just suggest that men's worth is nothing more than that of an erect penis.

    It's disgraceful, Joe, sends the wrong message.

    'Ride me sideways' was another one.


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  • #37
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    Muise... wrote: »
    'Ride me sideways' was another one.

    Wall to wall basterds!


  • #38
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    FYP there Wisha. Some men, and equally some women, have no issue with being objectified, and some people even make quite a good living from it - equality right there.

    Yet again you reply to one of my posts (where I am obviously joking) as I am being serious. Do you honestly think I would be evoking Joe Duffy if I were?

    Oh and you may want to perform a search on YouTube for 'Don Jon - About Porn' after your last little outburst at my expense ;)


  • #39
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Yet again you reply to one of my posts (where I am obviously joking) as I am being serious. Do you honestly think I would be evoking Joe Duffy if I were?


    The subtlety went right over my head tbh. So you DON'T want to be taken seriously then? I can do that :D

    Oh and you may want to perform a search on YouTube for 'Don Jon - About Porn' after your last little outburst at my expense ;)


    I wasn't sure what the Zac Efron clip was about, and I sure as hell ain't sure what the hell that About Porn' stuff was about? It's all very vague, but I trust you're building up to something, right?


  • #40
    Reindeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    The bottom line is women and men are NOT equal. If we were, well, then in practice we would be equal. The difficult part is expressing and appreciating that which differentiates the genders while also finding a means for both genders to coexist in a mutually respectful manner.


  • #41
    Merida107
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Merida107


    Reindeer wrote: »
    The bottom line is women and men are NOT equal. If we were, well, then in practice we would be equal. The difficult part is expressing and appreciating that which differentiates the genders while also finding a means for both genders to coexist in a mutually respectful manner.

    What does being equal mean to you?


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  • #42
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    where I am obviously joking
    Yet not one smilie was used :pac:


  • #43
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    The subtlety went right over my head tbh.
    Yeah, course it did.
    So you DON'T want to be taken seriously then? I can do that
    Eh, not when I'm clearly joking I don't, no.. but sure nice try at the usually twisting of what a user is obviously saying. Where would your posts be without that little nuance. Hell, it's your signature mark at this stage.
    I wasn't sure what the Zac Efron clip was about..
    I joke about women needing to stop objectifying men and then post a video of a woman ripping a guy's shirt off and you can't see how they might relate to one another? Ooo...kaay.
    ..and I sure as hell ain't sure what the hell that About Porn' stuff was about?
    Not sure if you're just feigning dumbness here or not, bit I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, it's Christmas..

    I quoted the Don Jon clip on another thread and you, clearly not getting the reference (no reason why you should) decided to post this snide little rant. All understandable of course, as I appreciate how pleasing a clique must be never ending work and so who could in good conscience blame you for fabricating opinions in order to garner those well obviously much needed backslaps, which you must at this stage be now be so accustomed to. Sure what's a little twisting and misrepresentation between forum compatriots eh. Good on you I say. Shows initiative if nothing else.


  • #44
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Yeah, course it did. Eh, not when I'm clearly joking I don't, no.. but sure nice try at the usually twisting of what a user is obviously saying. Where would your posts be without that little nuance. Hell, it's your signature mark at this stage. I joke about women needing to stop objectifying men and then post a video of a woman ripping a guy's shirt off and you can't see how they might relate to one another? Ooo...kaay. Not sure if you're just feigning dumbness here or not, bit I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, it's Christmas..

    I quoted the Don Jon clip on another thread and you, clearly not getting the reference (no reason why you should) decided to post this snide little rant. All understandable of course, as I appreciate how pleasing a clique must be never ending work and so who could in good conscience blame you for fabricating opinions in order to garner those well obviously much needed backslaps, which you must at this stage be now be so accustomed to. Sure what's a little twisting and misrepresentation between forum compatriots eh. Good on you I say. Shows initiative if nothing else.


    I'm sorry Wisha, you've completely lost me now. I tried to keep up, genuinely I did, but I don't think we're even on the same page any more, if we ever were. I'll withdraw from this discussion now as clearly I have no idea where it's going or what you're trying to say.


  • #45
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    the_syco wrote: »
    Yet not one smilie was used

    I can't, and don't, honestly believe anyone would take the following as someone being serious:
    I also take issue with those phallic shaped ones (which most women own, in one form or another) which really just suggest that men's worth is nothing more than that of an erect penis.

    It's disgraceful, Joe
    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I'm sorry Wisha, you've completely lost me now. I tried to keep up, genuinely I did, but I don't think we're even on the same page any more, if we ever were. I'll withdraw from this discussion now as clearly I have no idea where it's going or what you're trying to say.

    You're as transparent as it gets, but sure carry on, I'm sure your mates here believe you're being genuine.


  • #46
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Dave! wrote: »

    It's not just some fringe on Twitter though, there are plenty of columnists in mainstream media outlets who routinely post opinions about this stuff. Una Mullally is pretty vocal about this kind of stuff. One example from her that comes to mind is when the Nigerian schoolgirls were kidnapped by Boko Haram, she had an article in the Irish Times attributing the lack of media coverage of the kidnappings to the latent misogyny of Western society—implying that if it were boys who were kidnapped, that the coverage would be greater. But of course there were 50 schoolboys kidnapped earlier this year also, and there was little or no media coverage of that either.

    Yes but the thing you have to remember is that Una Mulally is basically a fcuking moron with a chip on her shoulder who uses the Irish times as a soapbox. The same could be said for Donald Clarke in the Irish Times. Actually given the fairly monochrome agenda they've followed over the last while, with no attempt at balance, the Irish times in general is probably as far from the paper of record as its ever been.


  • #47
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Reindeer wrote: »
    The bottom line is women and men are NOT equal. If we were, well, then in practice we would be equal. The difficult part is expressing and appreciating that which differentiates the genders while also finding a means for both genders to coexist in a mutually respectful manner.

    Men and women aren't equal by the exact same measure that you and me aren't equal. No two people are equal. If you judge two people to be equal purely because of their genitalia, then you're taking a very simplistic view of humanity.


  • #48
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    I can't, and don't, honestly believe anyone would take the following as someone being serious:
    It's AH. A LOT of posters post like that whilst being deadly serious.


  • #49
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,990 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I never understand that point. If it's a guy using magic powers to save the world from demons or whatever then it's fine. Change the character's gender and then they become unrelateable. Also, female Shepard for the win.

    And then have her cop off with Miranda. :cool:

    Am I doing this equality thing right?

    :confused:


  • #50
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    tritium wrote: »
    Yes but the thing you have to remember is that Una Mulally is basically a fcuking moron with a chip on her shoulder who uses the Irish times as a soapbox. The same could be said for Donald Clarke in the Irish Times. Actually given the fairly monochrome agenda they've followed over the last while, with no attempt at balance, the Irish times in general is probably as far from the paper of record as its ever been.

    Fair enough. I dunno if I'd reduce it to that, I don't in general have objections to Una Mullally's columns, nor to Donald Clarke's. I don't read them every week though.


  • #51
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I never understand that point. If it's a guy using magic powers to save the world from demons or whatever then it's fine. Change the character's gender and then they become unrelateable. Also, female Shepard for the win.

    Female Shepard is okay. There was a big deal made out of the voice actor, but, after I played as her, I wasn't too impressed. They took different viewpoints of the characters, but they were about equal in ability.

    EDIT:

    I've remembered my 'egalitarian' moments from when I was a young lad :D I played as a female character that I made as pretty as possible and with a personality that appealed to me:P The subtext of progressive gaming completely went over my head.

    I wonder is that any different than creating a female character that is progressive/geeky/ breaking gender roles, so on so forth?


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  • #52
    Reindeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    Men and women aren't equal by the exact same measure that you and me aren't equal. No two people are equal. If you judge two people to be equal purely because of their genitalia, then you're taking a very simplistic view of humanity.

    I would argue your view is the simplistic one. I have no real 'view' or bias on the subject of the genders being equal - they just aren't. In practice, men and women are not equal - that is; they are not the same. We act, react, think, and interact in society differently. A difference that has been proven scientifically and historically. It has nothing to do with how any of us view men or women(for the sake of argument - not socially, as that has an effect). It has nothing to do with genitalia directly. It has more to do with hormones and how our brains are designed, if scientists and psychologists are to be believed. My statement was more about how we should appreciate the differences instead of using them to divide us - significantly more complex than your rather simplistic, knee-jerk response.


  • #53
    Reindeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    Merida107 wrote: »
    What does being equal mean to you?

    It means "the same".

    Arguing if men and women are equal is completely different from arguing whether they should be treated equally, or have legal equality(IE - treated "the same" under the law).


  • #54
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    Gender quotas in nominations for political parties* Yeah to hell with democracy.

    No women speakers at the opening of the Rosie Hackett Bridge Because a man can never ever speak to the accomplishments of a woman. Ever..

    Under-representation of women in the IT industry Or to put it another way, An Over representation of women in "Gender Studies"

    World Cup TV coverage panel—I think it was a station in either Finland or Sweden which was lauded for having a majority of women on its panel, with the comparison drawn against RTÉ, which had a bunch of old men Yeah, what would the likes of Giles and Brady know about football. It’s not like they played at the very top of professional game and their opinion is widely respected or anything.... (Dumphy does not help my argument here)

    Women lead characters in computer games! There was some controversy when a gaming company said that they weren't going to add a woman lead character because it was too much work ---- Too much work given the deadline was very close. Not only would they have to develop another character, but the storyline (in places) would have to be rewritten, also voice actors would have to be employed, but your right, the devs should have to spend millions and miss the deadline to appeases some folks online who may not buy the game anyway. sounds reasonable to me.

    "Every day sexism" in language and other areas --- Were you looking at woman's ankles again.

    I'm quite aware that there are still outstanding issues in relation to gender equality (pay parity). This is why businesses employ mostly women, as they can get away with paying the less than men.

    women's rights (abortion). Yes I agree women should have a choice.

    sexist culture. I asked my wife, she has not been objectified once this week, not once.

    Am I just being a jerk because I'm a privileged middle-class white male, who doesn't have to deal with this stuff daily? Yes, go flagellate yourself 20 times a day.

    Should there really be exact 50/50 representation for every single thing? That’s the dream.

    Is it not okay that some things are skewed more in one direction, and others are skewed more in another? Its ok when men get far longer sentences for crimes compared to a woman, that’s just fine.

    Should there be 50% men on any panel where the show is geared towards females? Men cannot speak to women’s issues, I told you this already.

    What about representation of minorities—should every panel contain at least one female, black, gay, traveller for maximum equality? Yes, because only each of the above can speak to their issues, a white man cannot.

    Anyway I’m off to cash in my white privilege and lodge my cheque from the patriarchy.


  • #55
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Female Shepard is okay. There was a big deal made out of the voice actor, but, after I played as her, I wasn't too impressed. They took different viewpoints of the characters, but they were about equal in ability.

    EDIT:

    I've remembered my 'egalitarian' moments from when I was a young lad :D I played as a female character that I made as pretty as possible and with a personality that appealed to me:P The subtext of progressive gaming completely went over my head.

    I wonder is that any different than creating a female character that is progressive/geeky/ breaking gender roles, so on so forth?

    [Not a gamer]

    Is the call for more female characters aimed at getting more women to play? The transgression of playing as the opposite sex must be a bit distracting if you're not used to it.

    Once I dreamt I had a penis. I was far too busy playing with it to do anything else in that dream. It was very very pleasurable, but if I had one in real life, I don't think I'd ever leave the house. :D

    [I don't think you can force the writing of characters to suit politics. Every once in a while a character born of the writer's imagination is so interesting and popular s/he influences more to be conceived.]


  • #56
    Jonny Blaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Jonny Blaze


    Muise... wrote: »
    [Not a gamer]

    Once I dreamt I had a penis. I was far too busy playing with it to do anything else in that dream. It was very very pleasurable, but if I had one in real life, I don't think I'd ever leave the house. :D

    Join the club! ;)


  • #57
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Muise... wrote: »
    [Not a gamer]

    Is the call for more female characters aimed at getting more women to play? The transgression of playing as the opposite sex must be a bit distracting if you're not used to it.

    Once I dreamt I had a penis. I was far too busy playing with it to do anything else in that dream. It was very very pleasurable, but if I had one in real life, I don't think I'd ever leave the house. :D

    [I don't think you can force the writing of characters to suit politics. Every once in a while a character born of the writer's imagination is so interesting and popular s/he influences more to be conceived.]

    Refractory period, Muise. Imagining orgasming without any feeling of arousal afterwards :(

    I agree with your opinions on written characters. One author on twitter said that they 'wrote their characters traits andn flipped a coin to decide what gender it was'. :rolleyes: I can see where they're coming from, but it was a bit too self-pat backing.

    But, there should be more female characters as both villains and heroes. The more female characters there will be is the more female characters that will be created....female :P


  • #58
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    I think a lot of women these days are afraid to call themselves feminists because of what the word has become. The movement has changed and it's difficult to have a conversation about it because if you're male then you're branded anti-women when you have any sort of different opinion. Especially when conversions take place around the likes of a so called "Rape Culture" within society.


  • #59
    Legs.Eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    I think a lot of women these days are afraid to call themselves feminists because of what the word has become. The movement has changed and it's difficult to have a conversation about it because if you're male then you're branded anti-women when you have any sort of different opinion. Especially when conversions take place around the likes of a so called "Rape Culture" within society.

    Equally if you label yourself a feminist, you're labelled a man-hater and no distinction is made for varying extremes within this extremely broad term.

    Waste of time debating it on AH and it never, ever ends well. I don't bother my arse because all kinds of assumptions are made about me by some posters and it's not very pleasant.


  • #60
    Foxhound38
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    Plenty of issues effect primarily wimmenz and plenty of issues primarily effect menz. This internet tumblr gender war crap is a waste of time.

    I've heard the term "rape culture" a lot of late - last time I checked rape is legally and morally recognized as one of the worst things a person could do to another person short of murder - I don't see how the sh*tlord male culture I was born into reinforces it given that the vast majority of dudes are horrified by it.

    Talk of "microaggressions" tends to get met with a glazed over look from me - someone is either being aggressive or they're not, make your mind up. Same with "mansplaining" - it's an absolute cop-out and passive-aggressive as fook to boot; either you want to have a conversation about x issue or you don't.

    And the obsession with language and censorship many feminists seem to have doesn't get anyone anywhere.

    And don't get me started on MRA's - whiney, self-entitled eejits, and the other cheek of the same arse in terms of the "gender debate".

    Identity politics is so tedious


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  • #61
    OldGoat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,647 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    Dave! wrote: »
    Gender
    Deleted User wrote: »
    gender
    Fat Christy wrote: »
    gender
    bluewolf wrote: »
    Gender
    FunLover18 wrote: »
    gender
    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    gender
    Reindeer wrote: »
    genders
    smoking_kills wrote: »
    Gender
    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    gender
    Gender quote-AH :)

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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