Mk4s taking over on the Belfast line?

corktina · 23-06-2014 05:46PM #1

Whisper I heard...any truth in it?

Captain Chaos · 23-06-2014 06:49PM

corktina wrote: »

Whisper I heard...any truth in it?

It's a possibility with the DD stock due a major overhaul and refurb. That rumor has been going around a while and with surplus Mk4 stock its more than likely.

But......there is alot of work involved. Clearing Mk4s to York Road, installing TPWS and AWS and NIR radios in the selected sets DVTs unless you plan to use two drivers at all times when the train are pushed from Belfast to Dundalk. Also training staff to service the Mk4s.

Personally I think it would be easier and far more likely to permanently allocate 2x3ICRs to the line seeing as they are fully equipped (sets 1-6) and cleared to York Road and share the work load with 2x3 NIR C3k sets.

bikeman1 · 23-06-2014 07:23PM

corktina wrote: »

Whisper I heard...any truth in it?

Don't take too much notice of some of the rumours spread on the Facebook page Irish Railways Past & Present!

Some staff like to wind up gullible enthusiasts!

corktina · 23-06-2014 07:28PM

Is that where it came from? I thought it sounded a bit unlikely

GBOA · 23-06-2014 09:20PM

For anyone playing the Mk3/Mk4 drinking game, get one down you.

Jamie2k9 · 23-06-2014 09:35PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It's a possibility with the DD stock due a major overhaul and refurb. That rumor has been going around a while and with surplus Mk4 stock its more than likely.

But......there is alot of work involved. Clearing Mk4s to York Road, installing TPWS and AWS and NIR radios in the selected sets DVTs unless you plan to use two drivers at all times when the train are pushed from Belfast to Dundalk. Also training staff to service the Mk4s.

Personally I think it would be easier and far more likely to permanently allocate 2x3ICRs to the line seeing as they are fully equipped (sets 1-6) and cleared to York Road and share the work load with 2x3 NIR C3k sets.

Realistically they could avoid York Road Depot for servicing as it could be carried out with a set swap in Connolly for full maintenance and general fueling and toilet tanks could be done in Connolly instead of York Rd.

However as IE are in cost cutting mode I can't see a justification for such use of Mark 4. There is 1 Enterprise set not in services and bearing this in mind combined with changes to maintenance programmers when each set is out on refurb they could easily still provide a full services with minimal use of NIR C3k trains when extra increased maintenance is required.

Does anybody know when the refurb is due to begin?

Losty Dublin · 23-06-2014 10:05PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is 1 Enterprise set not in services and bearing this in mind combined with changes to maintenance programmers when each set is out on refurb they could easily still provide a full services with minimal use of NIR C3k trains when extra increased maintenance is required.

There isn't a spare Enterprise set, Jamie. Generally they are operated at 8 carriage sets, comprising of a DVT, first class, buffet car and 5 standard class carriages. There is one spare carriage of each type to cover for long term failures and servicing within the fleet. These too need to go for refurbishment which means that no spare vehicles will be available within the class. As a whole, its easier and more sensible to slot a replacement vehicle type into the link in lieu of a DD which is what Irish Rail are providing.

Now where's me shot glass?

Jamie2k9 · 23-06-2014 10:19PM

There isn't a spare Enterprise set, Jamie. Generally they are operated at 8 carriage sets, comprising of a DVT, first class, buffet car and 5 standard class carriages. There is one spare carriage of each type to cover for long term failures and servicing within the fleet. These too need to go for refurbishment which means that no spare vehicles will be available within the class. As a whole, its easier and more sensible to slot a replacement vehicle type into the link in lieu of a DD which is what Irish Rail are providing.

Some were cut to 7 coaches (1 less STD) before the EGV's and when the EGV's started all sets were cut down. So they do have one full set available now.

With this in mind failures are less frequent now and with changes to servicing schedules one set could have a refub and 3 others in full service and if there is issues 22's of NIR trains could fill the gap for short periods of time if needed.

Are you confirming IE are putting Mark 4 on the route?

Losty Dublin · 23-06-2014 10:37PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Some were cut to 7 coaches (1 less STD) before the EGV's and when the EGV's started all sets were cut down. So they do have one full set available now.

With this in mind failures are less frequent now and with changes to servicing schedules one set could have a refub and 3 others in full service and if there is issues 22's of NIR trains could fill the gap for short periods of time if needed.

Are you confirming IE are putting Mark 4 on the route?

It isn't a fourth set though, it's the four spare carriages plus which are withdrawn for servicing, repairs etc. Even if it was returned to service a spare set needs to be in place while sets are withdrawn for refitting so it's a non runner.

In regards to spare stock for the Enterprise, the 2700's are already cleared to work the line.

end of the road · 23-06-2014 10:48PM

hopefully mk 4s will do belfast, if ICRS do, no doubt the rosslare and sligo will end up with more of the horid 2900 bone shakers

Captain Chaos · 23-06-2014 11:19PM

Could have used a Mk3 push pull set with the cafe/bar coach if only they didn't scrap all the standards.:pac:

Yep, I went there.......
I believe they will pull 134 out of Inchicore to the haul the set and all.:D

end of the road · 23-06-2014 11:28PM

b 103 will do a run to west cork tomorrow, a driver in connolly told me.
(i'l get me coat)

Losty Dublin · 24-06-2014 12:19AM

end of the road wrote: »

b 103 will do a run to west cork tomorrow, a driver in connolly told me.
(i'l get me coat)

A driver in Broadstone told me :pac:

GBOA · 24-06-2014 12:21PM

end of the road wrote: »

hopefully mk 4s will do belfast, if ICRS do, no doubt the rosslare and sligo will end up with more of the horid 2900 bone shakers

Drink!

Fred Swanson · 24-06-2014 04:48PM

This post has been deleted.

GBOA · 24-06-2014 07:39PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Much the same as here it seems.

The_Wanderer · 26-06-2014 06:47PM

If it isn't a picture being posted on that FB group then you have to take a health warning with it, if it mentions "A driver in Heuston told me" then......move on nothing to see here.

But I will agree with one thing, far to many gullible enthusiasts out there who take it as gospel. We used to have "platform end wibber (as they call it in the UK), now we have Facebook wibber.

h.gricer · 26-06-2014 08:16PM

The_Wanderer wrote: »

But I will agree with one thing, far to many gullible enthusiasts out there who take it as gospel. We used to have "platform end wibber (as they call it in the UK), now we have Facebook wibber.

Indeed, but I do enjoy a good rumour, I remember the Drumcree crisis in July 1997, a big security crisis for the railway with an investment in the new Enterprise train ( De Diedrich coaches) Drumcree was at it's peak, a very serious danger of train hijacking, so the new trains where parked up in Heuston Yard while the battered MK2s took the brunt of the hijackings, they can burn them instead and do everybody a favour.
Well the rumour mill went into full swing with meetings of gullible enthusiasts on Heuston platform, hoping and praying just maybe they'll work to Cork or whatever, tis a good thing there was no iPhones, facebook would have seized up, in the end, they went nowhere, parked up for 4 weeks till the crisis died down, but then a driver said to a trainspotter they might work to Sligo, but was only a might, they would have to be cleared first.

Regards
hg

csd · 28-06-2014 11:29AM

Folks,

According to the new issue of Modern Railways, a 5ICR set will be allocated to the Belfast line to cover the set under refurbishment. This is in an article with the Chief Mechanical Engineer, Peter Smyth.

Modern Railways article by csd75, on Flickr

/csd

Captain Chaos · 28-06-2014 01:33PM

Another new Enterprise livery? The current one is what, 6 years old and only 8208 got it, maybe IE know something about this and that's why the other 201s were not painted even though they could badly do it. Interesting to see how this project goes with the mix of Canadian locos, British and French rolling stock with Irish and and Northern Irish systems all being brought under a new umbrella to make a better service.

Also the fact it's going to be a 5ICR that means another unit other than 1-6 will be on it. Why not make it a 6ICR, you have more capacity and all the of the safety systems and radios installed?

LXFlyer · 28-06-2014 01:51PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Another new Enterprise livery? The current one is what, 6 years old and only 8208 got it, maybe IE know something about this and that's why the other 201s were not painted even though they could badly do it. Interesting to see how this project goes with the mix of Canadian locos, British and French rolling stock with Irish and and Northern Irish systems all being brought under a new umbrella to make a better service.

Also the fact it's going to be a 5ICR that means another unit other than 1-6 will be on it. Why not make it a 6ICR, you have more capacity and all the of the safety systems and radios installed?

The lack of first class in a 2x3 ICR would be a problem given that the Enterprise sets rotate rather than staying on a fixed link.

That's where the companies make some money.

dowlingm · 28-06-2014 02:14PM

If non TPWSed FC ICRs go north on a scheduled basis it only shows that IE are laughing at the NI safety people as they already are with the Newry commuter 29000s. Hopefully the gear was relocated during reformation and it just wasn't heard about.

Captain Chaos · 28-06-2014 02:20PM

dowlingm wrote: »

If non TPWSed FC ICRs go north on a scheduled basis it only shows that IE are laughing at the NI safety people as they already are with the Newry commuter 29000s. Hopefully the gear was relocated during reformation and it just wasn't heard about.

All they need is a second man/qualified driver in the cab between Belfast and Dundalk but I think a speed restriction does apply aswell.

But in saying that on the last Mk3 scrap run they got 224 to take it to Dundalk and 206 took it up to Belfast a few few days later.

But as far as I know none of the 5ICR sets have any TPWS gear or NIR radios and there is no way they could have got it in the reformations.

dowlingm · 28-06-2014 02:27PM

I realise that the state of the NIR trackage means much of it is well below 90 but sending a "first class" speed restricted set to cover a DD on a medium term engagement is just sad.

LXFlyer · 28-06-2014 02:39PM

Oh come on.

Presumably the set concerned will be retro-fitted with the necessary equipment prior to going into use.

Frankly, suggesting that trains are going to be going around speed restricted or without the necessary safety equipment is just as bad as some of the nonsense I've read lately.

Captain Chaos · 28-06-2014 02:45PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Frankly, suggesting that trains are going to be going around speed restricted or without the necessary safety equipment is just as bad as some of the nonsense I've read lately.

I can't see IE pulling a 5ICR from service when they have a shortage of them, spending money they don't have to fully equip them for the NIR network, then run testing and commissioning runs because each set has to be verified that the systems are working, for which they only be working on for about a year and then never again. That's unless the work to fully fit out a 5ICR was priced into the tender that was funded by the EU in the first place but I can't see IE having that kind of foresight.

Much easier to stick on a second driver for half the route each way imo.

dowlingm · 28-06-2014 03:49PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Oh come on.

Presumably the set concerned will be retro-fitted with the necessary equipment prior to going into use.

Frankly, suggesting that trains are going to be going around speed restricted or without the necessary safety equipment is just as bad as some of the nonsense I've read lately.

after the selective door opening fiasco, no, I'm afraid I will not giving IE the benefit of the doubt on this.

TheBandicoot · 28-06-2014 05:29PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Oh come on.

Presumably the set concerned will be retro-fitted with the necessary equipment prior to going into use.

Frankly, suggesting that trains are going to be going around speed restricted or without the necessary safety equipment is just as bad as some of the nonsense I've read lately.

I suspect many members will be saving this post for future "I told you so" moments.

MGWR · 28-06-2014 06:06PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Another new Enterprise livery? The current one is what, 6 years old and only 8208 got it, maybe IE know something about this and that's why the other 201s were not painted even though they could badly do it. Interesting to see how this project goes with the mix of Canadian locos, British and French rolling stock with Irish and and Northern Irish systems all being brought under a new umbrella to make a better service.

Also the fact it's going to be a 5ICR that means another unit other than 1-6 will be on it. Why not make it a 6ICR, you have more capacity and all the of the safety systems and radios installed?

That's all that the Irish railway companies seem to specialise in of late; new paint jobs.

Jamie2k9 · 28-06-2014 06:38PM

Well, well, well, if that article is correct then Waterford and Slgio passengers will see the cuts. If you look at the photo threat yesterday afternoon they were down 1 3 coach unit and they had to cancel a service and now hints of moving a 5 coach unit to Belfast services. Need I say anymore....

Irish Rail management must of all failed maths at school as they can't even add up numbers at this stage.

Jamie2k9 · 28-06-2014 06:43PM

Oh come on.

Presumably the set concerned will be retro-fitted with the necessary equipment prior to going into use.

Frankly, suggesting that trains are going to be going around speed restricted or without the necessary safety equipment is just as bad as some of the nonsense I've read lately.

Have you come across the 06.45 from Newary.

Mk4s taking over on the Belfast line?

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