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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

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Comments

  • #1382
    Neeson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    He does this every few months. It's weird and a bit sad.



    People are always telling me this. What I'm saying is a bit of a tough but is needed in the middle. Fine if you don't think it's Cattermole or DeJong. That's OK. I'm trying to be reasonable as well though.

    I said about McGeady before. I wouldn't say he is worse than Young. And I don't think Cattermole or DeJong are terrible either but a lot here are turning their noses up at them.


  • #1383
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Neeson wrote: »
    People are always telling me this. What I'm saying is a bit of a tough but is needed in the middle. Fine if you don't think it's Cattermole or DeJong. That's OK. I'm trying to be reasonable as well though.

    I said about McGeady before. I wouldn't say he is worse than Young. And I don't think Cattermole or DeJong are terrible either but a lot here are turning their noses up at them.

    Ye.


  • #1384
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    stankratz wrote: »
    Why 4 or 5 Kryo? Is there a minimum amount of posts on a subject that have to be made before someone else can comment on it? Maybe there are more than the 2 that I quoted above, I haven't the time to do your searching for you, but the fact is that those posts (and the thought they conveyed) stuck in my head and my disagreement was that strong that I felt like responding with my own opinion. Hope that's alright.


    Yes good sir the minimum is 11+4

    Seriously, relax! Like I said Im on the mobile, didnt catch them or they didnt register, thanks for showing me what they were like.

    I thought you meant different kinds of comparisons, the ones that you showed are not so much comparisons as people dismissing comparisons if you get me.

    You have the position that Valencia could well regain his form?


  • #1385
    Neeson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    Besic is certainly hard. That is for sure.


  • #1386
    Vic Vinegar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,241 ✭✭✭Vic Vinegar


    The Sunday papers seem to be more full of crap than the dailys for some reason. I suppose it was only a matter of time before De Jong was linked, after all, he is Dutch.


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  • #1387
    bmcc10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭bmcc10


    Bombleswizzum wrote: »
    The Sunday papers seem to be more full of crap than the dailys for some reason. I suppose it was only a matter of time before De Jong was linked, after all, he is Dutch.

    http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2664597/Arjen-Robben-best-player-World-Cup-I-wish-hed-signed-Manchester-United-not-Chelsea-2004.html

    Hopefully the LVG effect works for us, Kind of another dig at Moyes in there from Rio?


  • #1388
    Timmyctc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    Jesus. Besic was released on a free by Hamburg. I wouldn't even care if we bought him based off one WC he is so super cool. Pjanic had such a good game.


  • #1389
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kryogen wrote: »
    Yes good sir the minimum is 11+4

    Seriously, relax! Like I said Im on the mobile, didnt catch them or they didnt register, thanks for showing me what they were like.

    I thought you meant different kinds of comparisons, the ones that you showed are not so much comparisons as people dismissing comparisons if you get me.

    You have the position that Valencia could well regain his form?

    Alright Kryo, I may have thought you were coming on a bit strong there! My original post today opined that Valencia signing a new contract wasn't the worst news for me and I went into a few reasons why in that post.

    For me, saying that expecting Valencia to come back is like expecting Anderson to come back is actually a comparison, and that is what I was commenting on above. I see the 2 situations as completely different, where Valencia has actually produced good form regularly for United while Anderson hasn't.

    I didn't and am not now going into the reasons why one produced the goods and one didn't, I was just pointing out that with Antonio we have hard evidence of his ability in a United shirt and with Anderson we don't.

    As far as expecting Tony V to regain form goes, I long ago gave up that expectation, but I don't think it's as outside the realms of possibility as expecting Anderson to do the same is. There is nothing I fully expect with United after the season that just transpired and with another new manager coming in, but Tony V signing a new contract isn't as offensive to me as it is to other fans. I believe if anyone can get him back on track it is LVG, I didn't feel that way with Moyes. To say anymore would be repeating my previous post which I linked above.


  • #1390
    sigmundv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭sigmundv


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    sunday papers making horror reading for United tomorrow.

    Apparently we are looking to sign De Jong from Milan, and play Rooney in central midfield.

    To both I say: FCK OFF!

    Please don't pay attention to Sunday papers. Their transfer stories are even more baseless than in the daily papers.


  • #1391
    cdb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭cdb


    I've no doubt LVG would have ok'ed Valencia's contract offer and blaming Woodward or even Fergie as if they are somehow conspiring behind scenes to hoist him on an unsuspecting new manager is absolutely ridiculous.

    Whatever people's opinions of him are, he is clearly seen as still having something to offer and I wouldn't be surprised if we see him fulfilling a more defensive role in the coming seasons.


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  • #1392
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Renewing Valencia's contract makes business sense. I don't know why people are flying off the handle about it. Regardless of what you think of him, Valencia's still an asset and Louis Van Gaal needs a chance to look at him and to assess whether he has a role to play. If he doesn't, we sell him, simple as that. And by securing our asset with a new contract, we're better placed to sell him (if that's the road we choose to go down).

    Sometimes people forget that the players who many of us would like to see the back of probably have a collective value that could be used to make a "dream" signing (never mind their wages).


  • #1393
    glued
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭glued


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    sunday papers making horror reading for United tomorrow.

    Apparently we are looking to sign De Jong from Milan, and play Rooney in central midfield.

    To both I say: FCK OFF!

    What's wrong with De Jong? Milan's best player this season and would be a massive upgrade on our midfield. It would be a short term option but I would certainly like to see that deal being done. He's also someone you could attract fairly easily given that Milan aren't in the CL either and apparently De Jong wants to leave anyway. He's much more than the hack merchant that he's made out to be too.

    Rooney may have to play in central midfield to get into the side but the press are just putting 2+2 on that one.


  • #1394
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Renewing Valencia's contract makes business sense. I don't know why people are flying off the handle about it. Regardless of what you think of him, Valencia's still an asset and Louis Van Gaal needs a chance to look at him and to assess whether he has a role to play. If he doesn't, we sell him, simple as that. And by securing our asset with a new contract, we're better placed to sell him (if that's the road we choose to go down).

    Sometimes people forget that the players who many of us would like to see the back of probably have a collective value that could be used to make a "dream" signing (nevermind their wages).

    Lets just say he has another awful season, which is very likely judging by his performances in the World Cup. And we decide to sell him next summer. How much is our 30 year old asset goin to be worth on the market?


  • #1395
    Zico
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Zico


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Sometimes people forget that the players who many of us would like to see the back of probably have a collective value that could be used to make a "dream" signing (nevermind their wages).

    I'm imagining a Frankenstein's Footballer now. Nani's right foot, Anderson's left, Welbeck's head, Valencia's engine and Young's 'fall over in the penalty area' mode.


  • #1396
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    Zico wrote: »
    I'm imagining a Frankenstein's Footballer now. Nani's right foot, Anderson's left, Welbeck's head, Valencia's engine and Young's 'fall over in the penalty area' mode.

    Don't forget rooney's wig! :)

    Edit: and Phil jones' mouth.


  • #1397
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    redbaron_99 wrote: »
    Lets just say he has another awful season, which is very likely judging by his performances in the World Cup. And we decide to sell him next summer. How much is our 30 year old asset goin to be worth on the market?

    I don't see the point you're making to be honest. Should Van Gaal turf him out without assessing him? Of course not.

    He had circa 1 year left on his contract, so all of the options that entails were on the table (talk to other clubs soon, leave for free next year, etc). By signing him up on another contract, Van Gaal can assess him and if he doesn't like what he sees, we can sell him on our terms. The guy's 28. Does anyone think that we'd struggle to sell him if that's the road we choose to go down? I've no doubt that Stoke or Sunderland or someone of that ilk would pay £7m (or similar) for him.

    So the choices were as follows:

    - Turf him out now without letting Van Gaal assess him (idiotic).

    - Don't give him a new contract, let Van Gaal assess him and risk having an asset leave for nothing (idiotic).

    - Give him a new contract, let Van Gaal assess him and if he likes him, happy days, and if he doesn't like him, sell him (smart).


  • #1398
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Let him assess him? I would think he has a pretty good idea of what he is about by now tbh

    He might be kept as an option for wing back maybe


  • #1399
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    I don't see the point you're making to be honest. Should Van Gaal turf him out without assessing him? Of course not.

    He had circa 1 year left on his contract, so all of the options that entails were on the table (talk to other clubs soon, leave for free next year, etc). By signing him up on another contract, Van Gaal can assess him and if he doesn't like what he sees, we can sell him on our terms. The guy's 28. Does anyone think that we'd struggle to sell him if that's the road we choose to go down? I've no doubt that Stoke or Sunderland or someone of that ilk would pay £7m (or similar) for him.

    So the choices were as follows:

    - Turf him out now without letting Van Gaal assess him (idiotic).

    - Don't give him a new contract, let Van Gaal assess him and risk having an asset leave for nothing (idiotic).

    - Give him a new contract, let Van Gaal assess him and if he likes him, happy days, and if he doesn't like him, sell him (smart).

    The guy is 29 next month. And no ones paying 7m for him - new contract or not.
    And he will be 30 next summer, his form has been dreadful for a number of years. This guy's value is only going in one direction.
    Strange that he turfed out butter without assessing him..


  • #1400
    Mr_Red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭Mr_Red


    Manchester United's Wayne Rooney to play centre midfield under new boss Van Gaal
    Louis van Gaal intends to employ Wayne Rooney in a deep-lying midfield role next season.

    The incoming Manchester United boss is desperate to accommodate Robin van Persie, Juan Mata and Rooney into his starting line-up.

    And after consulting the Reds' staff on the issue, the Holland manager is ready to play striker Rooney in central midfield during the club’s ­pre-season tour of the United States and into the Premier League season.

    Van Persie, who is Van Gaal’s national team skipper at the World Cup, is likely to be given the United armband next term, succeeding Nemanja Vidic in a role which David Moyes had been ready to hand to Rooney.

    The Dutch striker is sure to be United’s first-choice No.9, with £37million ­club-record buy Mata likely to start in his preferred No.10 role, behind the main striker.

    Van Gaal is not keen on playing Rooney in a wide role, as Roy Hodgson did in England's World Cup opener against Italy – especially as the player is not keen on the role.

    It is believed Van Gaal thinks Rooney has the qualities to become a successful central midfield player, as he has a good range of passing and the ability to win the ball back.

    And Van Gaal knows he must find a way of getting the best out of the Scouser, who signed a £300,000-a-week five-year contract last season to keep him out of Chelsea’s clutches.

    United have been weak in central midfield since the end of Paul Scholes’ time as a ­frontline first-teamer.

    Michael Carrick, Tom ­Cleverley and Marouane Fellaini all struggled under Moyes last season, while Darren Fletcher’s career has been hampered by illness.

    Rooney has played in central midfield on occasions, though often only late in matches after substitutions have been made, but Sir Alex Ferguson always believed he had a future there.

    It is a theory shared by Van Gaal and if the move is successful, it could provide a long-term boost to England who are likely to lose Steven Gerrard to international retirement this week, while they must also replace the 36-year-old Frank Lampard.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-uniteds-wayne-rooney-play-3738698


  • #1401
    Timmyctc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    I don't see the point you're making to be honest. Should Van Gaal turf him out without assessing him? Of course not.

    He had circa 1 year left on his contract, so all of the options that entails were on the table (talk to other clubs soon, leave for free next year, etc). By signing him up on another contract, Van Gaal can assess him and if he doesn't like what he sees, we can sell him on our terms. The guy's 28. Does anyone think that we'd struggle to sell him if that's the road we choose to go down? I've no doubt that Stoke or Sunderland or someone of that ilk would pay £7m (or similar) for him.

    So the choices were as follows:

    - Turf him out now without letting Van Gaal assess him (idiotic).

    - Don't give him a new contract, let Van Gaal assess him and risk having an asset leave for nothing (idiotic).

    - Give him a new contract, let Van Gaal assess him and if he likes him, happy days, and if he doesn't like him, sell him (smart).

    Letting this "asset" leave on a free in a year is probably cheaper than giving him a new three year contract and selling him for <5m (Which is likely what he is gonna fetch, at highest.) Why couldn't he assess Valencia then offer him a new contract? He has, as you say, a whole year left on his contract.


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  • #1402
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    redbaron_99 wrote: »
    The guy is 29 next month. And no ones paying 7m for him - new contract or not.
    And he will be 30 next summer, his form has been dreadful for a number of years. This guy's value is only going in one direction.
    Strange that he turfed out butter without assessing him..

    LVG would have assessed Buttner for the Dutch squad. AND it's Buttner seemingly wanting out.

    Honestly, I don't think Val would fetch much more this year than next; when United sell players past their peak, value isn't really considered....


  • #1403
    SteM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,602 ✭✭✭SteM


    redbaron_99 wrote: »
    Lets just say he has another awful season, which is very likely judging by his performances in the World Cup. And we decide to sell him next summer. How much is our 30 year old asset goin to be worth on the market?

    More than he would be if he was out of contract and a free agent.


  • #1404
    KH25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,209 ✭✭✭KH25


    stankratz wrote: »
    There have been posts in the last few pages saying that expecting Valencia to come good is the same as expecting Anderson to come good, unless I'm hallucinating.

    I said it and I stand by it. Valencia has been shocking for over 2 years now. He has never recaptured his best form. He is a winger who can't cross the ball and he looks afraid to take his man on. He always, always waits for the overlapping run to lay the pass off to. He was like this under Fergie so Moyes can't be blamed. He offers very little to the team these days. To expect him to magically come good after the last 2 years is the same as thinking this year Ando will break through and be a great player for us. It would be great if it happened, but it wont.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I said it, and I'll say it again.

    A poster earlier referenced Valencia perhaps finding his form again under LVG. But it has been years now, and even thinking for one second that Valencia is going to regain his form is just as blindly hopeful as thinking that LVG is going to make Anderson the player we hoped he would be, or a Chelsea fan thinking Torres is suddenly going to become the player he was years ago.

    +1.


  • #1405
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Timmyctc wrote: »
    Letting this "asset" leave on a free in a year is probably cheaper than giving him a new three year contract and selling him for <5m.

    So paying him for a year and then letting him go for free is cheaper than paying him for a year and selling him for £5m?

    Hmmmm


  • #1406
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    kryogen wrote: »
    Let him assess him? I would think he has a pretty good idea of what he is about by now tbh

    How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.


  • #1407
    Ed The Equalizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Ed The Equalizer


    Would love to see Rooney in midfield to be honest. Would also give Chico more game time up front.


  • #1408
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.

    Dear Lord. I think Louis Van Gaal watches a bit of football. And I'd be quite certain that he watched a fair amount of United last season, seeing as though he was being lined up as the next united manger... And it takes about 5 minutes to figure out what Valencia is all about.


  • #1409
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,211 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.

    Its interesting how some people think that managers have their ears to the ground and know a lot about different players and clubs, whereas others believe that managers don't really know anything about players they haven't managed.

    For example David Moyes was at the same time a meticulous manager who extensively scouted thousands of players, and then also a man who needed a full summer to figure out what players he had at the league champions.

    The reality is in-between of course, but football at the very highest level is a relatively small circle and I have no doubt that Louis Van Gaal already knows far more about Antonio Valencia than you or I.


  • #1410
    Quandary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,493 ✭✭✭Quandary


    This Rooney in midfield business is coming from the Mirror so it's pure speculation at this point. It makes a certain amount of sense but I cannot see Rooney going for it. We could end up with a disgruntled £300k per week striker warming the bench or playing for the reserves.


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  • #1411
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    Any ideas on how Valencia fits into VG's United? I can't make any sense of this new contract. I really can't.

    If he's supposed to be a wing back, then he's behind Rafeal in the pecking order. But that means Varela might awsell leave the club. Janko too. And Valencia can't defend for sh*te - that much was obvious last season.

    If he's intended to play a more forward role, I don't think Van Gaal plays with traditional, line-hugging, wingers. And Valencia is too one footed to play a role that requires him to move in off the wing.

    It's a baffling piece of business.


This discussion has been closed.
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