Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nope. The Moyes defence does not apply to Valencia. He was utter trash and had been found out before Moyes ever walked through the door.

At this stage expecting Valencia to improve is no different than expecting Anderson to improve.

Hate this insane crap of valencia being 'found out', that is simply crap to say.

He played in England for a few years before United signed him. He did well the first season at United. He was doing well his second season before injury. He was EXCELLENT in his third season. He has been crap in the last two seasons.

Is your argument that Valencia's game, which had always been direct - knock it past the defender, power it past and cross it in - with basically no use of his left foot, took 5 years for defenders to work out? His game has never been tough to read, it was tough to stop.

The problem isn't that he has been found out, defenders would have known how to defend against him in 2010. The problem is simply he is now playing absolute crap, consistently.

He doesn't even try to power past the defenders anymore - he doesnt take them on, he hesitates. He doesnt look for a cross, he just aimlessly drills it. I don't know why he is now playing like a moron, why he doesnt do the things he once did. It is insane, but it isn't because he was 'found out'.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nope. The Moyes defence does not apply to Valencia. He was utter trash and had been found out before Moyes ever walked through the door.

At this stage expecting Valencia to improve is no different than expecting Anderson to improve.

I have never bought the Valencia was worked out/found out thing, he has been in the league a long time to just suddenly be found out, its not like his game had changed from his time at Wigan to when he was at United, defenders knew what he was going to do, they just couldnt stop him.I think the injuries have had an effect on him mentally as well as physically and that is a factor to his decline, his unwillingness to fully commit imo.

I don't think he will ever get back to the level he was at before, I compare it somewhat to the "ips"

I think we will be able to find a buyer for him next season if needs be, either in the league, someone like Villa, or abroad. Am concerned with what it means for signings this season though, we don't need as big a squad and having Nani, Valencia, Young, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa and other back up options available to play wide doesn't fill me with confidence that any talent is going to be brought in there

That is ok in itself for this season, other areas require strengthening first and in that sense it makes sense to tie up Valencia and make sure he can't run his contract down and the team get something back for him. Would not be surprised at all if this is his last season with the club

Edit: Damn you Mitch, got there just ahead of me!

umop.episdn

^^ perhaps those injuries haven taken their toll & he is no longer able to play his old way, his blistering pace has waned & maybe (unlike Giggs) he hasn't adapted his game to compensate?

Timmyctc

Valencia is ****e. Thats a given. But people going on about how he's "been found out" are vastly underestimating the ability of 20+ Premier League managers.

Do people honestly think it took people 3+ years to realise Valencia had only one trick?

EDIT: Jesus :P I didn't even see Mitch's post.

Will I Amnt

Mitch just said more or less what I was going to say. Pace and power can't be found out.
Valencia has just become reluctant to take on his man and his crossing has gone to sh*t. It's almost like he waits until there's a defender in front of him to try and cross. I'd imagine it's a mental thing with him more than anything.

Mitch Connor

umop.episdn wrote: »

^^ perhaps those injuries haven taken their toll & he is no longer able to play his old way, his blistering pace has waned & maybe (unlike Giggs) he hasn't adapted his game to compensate?

his third, best, season was the year after the injury. Its an odd one.

redbaron_99

Mitch Connor wrote: »

his third, best, season was the year after the injury. Its an odd one.

Some players fade during their career. Hard to put a finger on what the problem is.
But the limited nature of his game probably makes it a lot harder for him to rediscover his best form.
I have no faith in him anymore. Him being given a new contract is worrying.
There's some poor management at the club in recent years. I thought we would have seen a dramatic turn with LVG being hired.

Timmyctc

Can we buy Besic and Pjanic. They are pure class to watch. Imagine the team you could make from the Former Yugoslav states

sigmundv

redbaron_99 wrote: »

There's some poor management at the club in recent years. I thought we would have seen a dramatic turn with LVG being hired.

The problem is that Louis van Gaal hasn't really started in his job yet. Retaining Valencia is nothing to worry about. You need experienced squad players.

redbaron_99

Timmyctc wrote: »

Can we buy Besic and Pjanic. They are pure class to watch. Imagine the team you could make from the Former Yugoslav states

Pjamic is top notch. Just signed a new deal at Roma, though. I think.

user2011

Timmyctc wrote: »

Can we buy Besic and Pjanic. They are pure class to watch. Imagine the team you could make from the Former Yugoslav states

Looks very impressive.

Timmyctc

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Pjamic is top notch. Just signed a new deal at Roma, though. I think.

Didnt watch much of Roma this year, only the games against Juve but he's been good at this WC so far

user2011 wrote: »

Looks very impressive.

Only 21 or 22 too I think.

user2011

Timmyctc wrote: »

Didnt watch much of Roma this year, only the games against Juve but he's been good at this WC so far



Only 21 or 22 too I think.

I only noticed him when I was looking for a player to be booked in their game against Argentina seen his soccerway profile has him as a defender but he was playing midfield.

Watched him closely that game and he was really good for a defender playing midfield. Can pick a pass, very mobile. Always looking around when getting the ball to see where he can, not just back to defenders forward passes

Crimson King

Considering LVG's connections in Bayern, I wonder if a cheeky hid for Hojbjerg is worth a punt? Guy looks dynamite and not yet really a regular starter for them.

The comparisons between Valencia and Anderson are way off IMO. Valencia has some great seasons for Utd under his belt. Anderson does not. To expect one to come good (again) is not the same at all as expecting the other to come good.

kryogen

stankratz wrote: »

The comparisons between Valencia and Anderson are way off IMO. Valencia has some great seasons for Utd under his belt. Anderson does not. To expect one to come good (again) is not the same at all as expecting the other to come good.

Who made the comparison between Valencia and Anderson?

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Who made the comparison between Valencia and Anderson?

There have been posts in the last few pages saying that expecting Valencia to come good is the same as expecting Anderson to come good, unless I'm hallucinating.

Mitch Connor

sunday papers making horror reading for United tomorrow.

Apparently we are looking to sign De Jong from Milan, and play Rooney in central midfield.

To both I say: FCK OFF!

kryogen

stankratz wrote: »

There have been posts in the last few pages saying that expecting Valencia to come good is the same as expecting Anderson to come good, unless I'm hallucinating.

As I am on my mobile searching for things is a pain in the ass so would you mind quoting or linking me to 4 or 5 of these?

Missed them, do remember one post, where someone said people who expect Valencia to come good again are probably like those who expected Anderson to come good, year after year. Dont remember anything else is all. That wasnt even making a comparison tbf, also they are extremely different, Ando never fulfilled his potential, for various reasons. Valencia was a very good weapon for us.

Manutd_4life

Mitch Connor wrote: »

sunday papers making horror reading for United tomorrow.

Apparently we are looking to sign De Jong from Milan, and play Rooney in central midfield.

To both I say: FCK OFF!

no thanks, next one please

Neeson

DeJong is exactly what is required. Your hard man. And I'm sure many would at least agree he'd be better than Cattermole. Personally I'd take both if they were available.

Hard boys are needed. Someone who will slice the ear of Carrick or Rooney if they don't play to the required standards. Roy Keane was a hard man. No hard man has graced the pitch in the United Red since Roy Keane.

Neeson

Neeson wrote: »

DeJong is exactly what is required. Your hard man. And I'm sure many would at least agree he'd be better than Cattermole. Personally I'd take both if they were available.

Hard boys are needed. Someone who will slice the ear of Carrick or Rooney if they don't play to the required standards. Roy Keane was a hard man. No hard man has graced the pitch in the United Red since Roy Keane.

I'm not sure, I think we'd definitely need 2 shadowcomplex 11s to sort the De Jong- Cattermole brain wrencher.

bmcc10

Neeson wrote: »

DeJong is exactly what is required. Your hard man. And I'm sure many would at least agree he'd be better than Cattermole. Personally I'd take both if they were available.

Hard boys are needed. Someone who will slice the ear of Carrick or Rooney if they don't play to the required standards. Roy Keane was a hard man. No hard man has graced the pitch in the United Red since Roy Keane.

You'd take Cattermole?? If i see the day Cattermole has the United jersey stupidly tucked inside his shorts is the day i lose all faith in United.

kryogen

Neeson wrote: »

DeJong is exactly what is required. Your hard man. And I'm sure many would at least agree he'd be better than Cattermole. Personally I'd take both if they were available.

Hard boys are needed. Someone who will slice the ear of Carrick or Rooney if they don't play to the required standards. Roy Keane was a hard man. No hard man has graced the pitch in the United Red since Roy Keane.

You're right, Vidic was a powder puff fairy sure :rolleyes:

Neeson

bmcc10 wrote: »

You'd take Cattermole?? If i see the day Cattermole has the United jersey stupidly tucked inside his shorts is the day i lose all faith in United.

He won't break the bank and he is a tough nut who would give a bit of solidity around the middle.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

As I am on my mobile searching for things is a pain in the ass so would you mind quoting or linking me to 4 or 5 of these?

Missed them, do remember one post, where someone said people who expect Valencia to come good again are probably like those who expected Anderson to come good, year after year. Dont remember anything else is all. That wasnt even making a comparison tbf, also they are extremely different, Ando never fulfilled his potential, for various reasons. Valencia was a very good weapon for us.

I said it, and I'll say it again.

A poster earlier referenced Valencia perhaps finding his form again under LVG. But it has been years now, and even thinking for one second that Valencia is going to regain his form is just as blindly hopeful as thinking that LVG is going to make Anderson the player we hoped he would be, or a Chelsea fan thinking Torres is suddenly going to become the player he was years ago.

bmcc10

Neeson wrote: »

He won't break the bank and he is a tough nut who would give a bit of solidity around the middle.

I have no words :eek:

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

I said it, and I'll say it again.

A poster earlier referenced Valencia perhaps finding his form again under LVG. But it has been years now, and even thinking for one second that Valencia is going to regain his form is just as blindly hopeful as thinking that LVG is going to make Anderson the player we hoped he would be, or a Chelsea fan thinking Torres is suddenly going to become the player he was years ago.

Yeah thats the one I remember, from my reading of the other lads post I thought there were a few of them, he did say comparisons plural

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

As I am on my mobile searching for things is a pain in the ass so would you mind quoting or linking me to 4 or 5 of these?

Missed them, do remember one post, where someone said people who expect Valencia to come good again are probably like those who expected Anderson to come good, year after year. Dont remember anything else is all. That wasnt even making a comparison tbf, also they are extremely different, Ando never fulfilled his potential, for various reasons. Valencia was a very good weapon for us.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nope. The Moyes defence does not apply to Valencia. He was utter trash and had been found out before Moyes ever walked through the door.

At this stage expecting Valencia to improve is no different than expecting Anderson to improve.

KH25 wrote: »

Same as people saying Ando will come good every year. Won't happen.

Why 4 or 5 Kryo? Is there a minimum amount of posts on a subject that have to be made before someone else can comment on it? Maybe there are more than the 2 that I quoted above, I haven't the time to do your searching for you, but the fact is that those posts (and the thought they conveyed) stuck in my head and my disagreement was that strong that I felt like responding with my own opinion. Hope that's alright.

PhlegmyMoses

bmcc10 wrote: »

I have no words :eek:

He does this every few months. It's weird and a bit sad.