Walking & cycling route on Dublin's north quays "inevitable" (you must read post #1)

Jawgap · 17-06-2014 06:13AM #1

MODERATOR WARNING TO ALL:

Cut out the trolling and/or off topic posting or you be infracted.

Off-topic /trolling includes:

Cyclist behavior (this is no more on topic here than it would be on topic to complain about motorists in a motorway project thread)
Talking about banning cyclists from city streets such as the south quays which are not even national roads never mind not being motorways and having homes and businesses all the way along then
Talking about a need to have cyclists trained, taxed, insured, or licensed is off-topic. There's a general cycling thread for such general discussion.

This does not apply to discussing what public figures have said about the above. But only if kept related to the topic.

Asking about why or how the project is funded is different and on-topic.

ENDS MODERATOR NOTE

Cycle route to cut Dublin Quays to one motor lane

Plans are being drawn up for a major change in traffic arrangements on Dublin’s north quays which would introduce a new two-way cycle lane and restrict private motorists to one lane instead of two.

City council chief executive Owen Keegan acknowledged the proposal would slow up traffic on the busy north quays, but said restricting the road space available to cars was essential as part of a sustainable transport system in the city.

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 08:13AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Cycle route to cut Dublin Quays to one motor lane

And GUARANTEED that cyclists will still insist on using the south quays all the way rather than crossing a bridge and adding 100m to the journey

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 17-06-2014 08:15AM

Its a terrible idea. City center traffic is already diabolical on the North Quays. That plan would make the place impassable. Some people do still need to drive in and out of town. And I say that as a cyclist and a motorist.

ThisRegard · 17-06-2014 08:20AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

And GUARANTEED that cyclists will still insist on using the south quays all the way rather than crossing a bridge and adding 100m to the journey

You also have a crystal ball ?

People are people, some will always do something stupid. Same as to how taxis use unofficial ranks in the city centre, and block up Aston Quay by leaving the ass of their car sticking out into the traffic lane when they can't fit their car into the rank there.

No Pants · 17-06-2014 08:25AM

What's the benefit to having a two-way cycle lane on the North Quays and (presumably) no cycle lane on the South Quays?

It's highly unlikely that I will ever use either, I'm just curious.

Jawgap · 17-06-2014 08:27AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

And GUARANTEED that pedestrians will still walk in the new cycle lane, vehicles will still park in it and taxis will still pull across it to pick up / drop off farescyclists will still insist on using the south quays all the way rather than crossing a bridge and adding 100m to the journey

FYP

Jawgap · 17-06-2014 08:30AM

No Pants wrote: »

What's the benefit to having a two-way cycle lane on the North Quays and (presumably) no cycle lane on the South Quays?

It's highly unlikely that I will ever use either, I'm just curious.

South Quays (generally) takes traffic out of the city centre, north quays (generally) brings it in - I'm guessing the logic is that it's more beneficial to reduce the flow of inbound traffic, without compromising the flow of traffic away from the city centre.

ThisRegard · 17-06-2014 08:32AM

No Pants wrote: »

What's the benefit to having a two-way cycle lane on the North Quays and (presumably) no cycle lane on the South Quays?

It's highly unlikely that I will ever use either, I'm just curious.

Also probably because it's better to lose one lane in total rather than two.

Pinch Flat · 17-06-2014 08:38AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

You also have a crystal ball ?

Let's wait and see. Dublin is already choked with cars and people are seeking alternatives to the daily grind.

People coming from the west And north of the city that want to cycle find the quays the most intimidating part. A chance was lost with the Luas in that cycling could have been accommodated alongside.

The quays are already a bottle neck and a lot if drivers insist in coming this way even though there's viable alternatives to avoid it. And it's restricted to one lane anyway at the croppy acre.

Not sure if losing the parking is in this proposal - perhaps restrict to weekends. Having cars trying to reverse park on the quays adds to the mayhem

Jawgap · 17-06-2014 08:56AM

I presume the North Quays were selected because it would be easy enough to link up a cycle lane there with the Phoenix Park and the Chapelizod / Islandbridge riverside cycle path?

CramCycle · 17-06-2014 09:06AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

And GUARANTEED that cyclists will still insist on using the south quays all the way rather than crossing a bridge and adding 100m to the journey

Definitely, I think I might just go contra flow up the south quays just to be an ass if its brought in :rolleyes:

Jawgap wrote: »

South Quays (generally) takes traffic out of the city centre, north quays (generally) brings it in - I'm guessing the logic is that it's more beneficial to reduce the flow of inbound traffic, without compromising the flow of traffic away from the city centre.

That's exactly it, they had a guy talking on Newstalk breakfast this morning who quoted the DCC traffic manager and the aim, other than to promote cycling, was to encourage people to not drive in, use public transport, PSVs, or cycle and walk.

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 09:51AM

Jawgap wrote: »

FYP

There is no need to continually try for quick jibes by posting FYP's.

If you disagree with my prediction that cyclists won't cross a bridge to access a dedicated lane on the opposite side of the quays thus rendering the idea as idiotic and wasteful, then please feel free to contribute.

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 09:54AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

You also have a crystal ball ?

People are people, some will always do something stupid. Same as to how taxis use unofficial ranks in the city centre, and block up Aston Quay by leaving the ass of their car sticking out into the traffic lane when they can't fit their car into the rank there.

Doesn't need a crystal ball, just an observation of people and their laziness, similar to taxi drivers being too lazy to ensure their arse isn't jutting out.

Pinch Flat · 17-06-2014 09:55AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

There is no need to continually try for quick jibes by posting FYP's.

If you disagree with my prediction that cyclists won't cross a bridge to access a dedicated lane on the opposite side of the quays thus rendering the idea as idiotic and wasteful, then please feel free to contribute.

Well the question will be if there are not dedicated cycling facilities on the south quays, will they be out of bounds to cyclists? I don't think so as it will limit people who wish to cycle from the south side of the city

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 09:56AM

CramCycle wrote: »

Definitely, I think I might just go contra flow up the south quays just to be an ass if its brought in :rolleyes:

That's exactly it, they had a guy talking on Newstalk breakfast this morning who quoted the DCC traffic manager and the aim, other than to promote cycling, was to encourage people to not drive in, use public transport, PSVs, or cycle and walk.

Yeah well I would assume that you realised I was talking about people heading West on the North quay, rather than East on the South Quay :rolleyes:

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 09:59AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Well the question will be if there are not dedicated cycling facilities on the south quays, will they be out of bounds to cyclists? I don't think so as it will limit people who wish to cycle from the south side of the city

Exactly, there are bus lanes on the South Quays, why would cyclists want to travel an extra 100 meters to head West?

Pinch Flat · 17-06-2014 10:06AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Exactly, there are bus lanes on the South Quays, why would cyclists want to travel an extra 100 meters to head West?

I haven't see any if the plans or proposals. So it's difficult to visualise how this will be realised.

Plans like these usually go to public consultation. Why don't you raise these concerns there?

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 10:12AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I haven't see any if the plans or proposals. So it's difficult to visualise how this will be realised.

Plans like these usually go to public consultation. Why don't you raise these concerns there?

You mean like here

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/

Pinch Flat · 17-06-2014 10:12AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

You mean like here

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/

Got it in one. Have you raised your concerns there?

Jawgap · 17-06-2014 10:15AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Exactly, there are bus lanes on the South Quays, why would cyclists want to travel an extra 100 meters to head West?

That's thinking like a motorist or a pedestrian........

If the one thing the miles and miles of crap cycle lanes have proved, it's that if you build decent, well thought out, cycling infra-structure people on bikes will deviate towards it - varying their routes to use it, even if it means slightly extending the journey.

If you follow some of the discussions on routes (when people post asking for recommendations / suggestions to get from A to

most of the responses tend to focus on the 'best' route in terms of safety, 'enjoyability,' etc rather than the shortest route.

Unlike a car journeys, sometimes on a bike there's more enjoyment to be had by extending one's commute.

CramCycle · 17-06-2014 10:18AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Yeah well I would assume that you realised I was talking about people heading West on the North quay, rather than East on the South Quay :rolleyes:

I realised that but I was being slightly facetious. Why would I go over to the north quays if I am for example going to the Modern art museum and am already on the Southside? It creates more conflicts as I now must navigate extra junctions for a pointless 100metres. Whereas if I was going to Pheonix park or the four courts, then yes I would use it.

CramCycle · 17-06-2014 10:19AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Unlike a car journeys, sometimes on a bike there's more enjoyment to be had by extending one's commute.

If I felt that the south quays were uncomfortable or dangerous then I definitely would but I have cycled them many a time without issue.

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 10:20AM

CramCycle wrote: »

I realised that but I was being slightly facetious. Why would I go over to the north quays if I am for example going to the Modern art museum and am already on the Southside? It creates more conflicts as I now must navigate extra junctions for a pointless 100metres. Whereas if I was going to Pheonix park or the four courts, then yes I would use it.

So it's a pointless exercise, most cyclists will go where they want to go NOT where DCC want them to, save the money and spend it on something more worthwhile, like extra traffic enforcement cameras and council enforcement officers

EDIT: FFS They could even spend it on bringing in a congestion charge enforced by traffic cams, less traffic no need for spending money on 2 way cycle lanes

CramCycle · 17-06-2014 10:30AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

So it's a pointless exercise, most cyclists will go where they want to go NOT where DCC want them to, save the money and spend it on something more worthwhile, like extra traffic enforcement cameras and council enforcement officers

Not at all, it serves many purposes, reduces traffic flow into the city, encouraging the use of public transport and cycling which will be hugely beneficial to pedestrians, the air quality, transport times for emergency vehicles etc.

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 10:31AM

CramCycle wrote: »

Not at all, it serves many purposes, reduces traffic flow into the city, encouraging the use of public transport and cycling which will be hugely beneficial to pedestrians, the air quality, transport times for emergency vehicles etc.

Check the edit

ThisRegard · 17-06-2014 10:35AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Exactly, there are bus lanes on the South Quays, why would cyclists want to travel an extra 100 meters to head West?

Less stress and hassle. I never cycled down the south quays any further than the Dublin Castle turn off, and even at that it was years ago.

When cycling, the Phoenix Park was on my route home and I'd take the canal and Kilmainham for a hassle free journey rather than the quays.

CramCycle · 17-06-2014 10:40AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Check the edit

If petrol prices and the congestion charge in London have proved anything, its that people will pay, therefore achieving nothing. Dublin by its general layout also has a very small centre, so where does the congestion charge extend too? to small and you create traffic mayhem as people avoid it, too large and you will have so many exemptions for householders and businesses that it becomes pointless. If there is a congestion charge it still has to be affordable. The bottle necking of traffic like this also serves the purpose of hopefully keeping speed down and encouraging public transport as a viable option not just an affordable one.

No Pants · 17-06-2014 10:52AM

If DCC want to really promote cycling as a commuting option, they should put pressure on the Gardai to do something, anything, about bike thefts. The stolen bike thread is still going strong. I'd certainly be reluctant to bring my bike into the city centre.

Spook_ie · 17-06-2014 11:03AM

CramCycle wrote: »

If petrol prices and the congestion charge in London have proved anything, its that people will pay, therefore achieving nothing. Dublin by its general layout also has a very small centre, so where does the congestion charge extend too? to small and you create traffic mayhem as people avoid it, too large and you will have so many exemptions for householders and businesses that it becomes pointless. If there is a congestion charge it still has to be affordable. The bottle necking of traffic like this also serves the purpose of hopefully keeping speed down and encouraging public transport as a viable option not just an affordable one.

Like most traffic issues you'll never get 2 people to agree

According to TfL figures, traffic levels over the past 10 years have gone down by 10.2% but journey times for drivers have remained flat since 2007.

Barry Neil, whose east London-based company Ambient Computer Services travels into central London daily delivering computer equipment, claims this is evidence the congestion charge has failed.

He said: "We said when it launched it wasn't going to make any difference and unfortunately it hasn't.

"If it made it easier to drive through London, then great. But it doesn't. The jams are just as bad and it costs us £5,000 a year."

However, Elliot Jacobs, managing director of office supplies firm UOE, disagrees.

"Getting deliveries on time is really important and the congestion charge means we have a consistency of traffic flow and a reliability that we know where the traffic's going to be, and that's important.

"It means we can get there on time and that's worth £10 every day."

from http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-21451245

SeanW · 17-06-2014 11:12AM

CramCycle wrote: »

If petrol prices and the congestion charge in London have proved anything, its that people will pay, therefore achieving nothing.

Taxing necessities would have that effect alright :rolleyes:

No Pants · 17-06-2014 11:14AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Like most traffic issues you'll never get 2 people to agree

from http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-21451245

That is interesting. Two people in fairly similar fields from what I can see (deliveries) and their experiences differ greatly. One even considers the £5k a year charge as value. Maybe they serve different areas of London, or one visits the city centre more often.

Walking & cycling route on Dublin's north quays "inevitable" (you must read post #1)

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