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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    BTW lads, I was only messing about the stretching ;)
    I'm just one of those runners that knows he ought to stretch more and will make any excuse not to!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    menoscemo wrote: »
    BTW lads, I was only messing about the stretching ;)
    I'm just one of those runners that knows he ought to stretch more and will make any excuse not to!!

    Don't worry. Reckoned it was tongue in cheek alright.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Tuesday-Friday

    No running. No stretching. No exercising of any sort! Lots of pints Friday night, followed by Chinese food .

    back had improved greatly by Thursday but decided to give it an extra couple of days before running again.

    Saturday 14th June

    A side benefit of no running the last few days was that it gave the legs a chance to freshen up and let any niggles settle down. Head was still a bit fuzzy after the pints last night but wanted to get out and do something today.

    Planned to just do an easy run but the legs felt great, no problems with the back , so just went with it and it turned into something of a steady run. Really enjoyed this run. Went out to Sutton along coast and back again. Good to be back in the groove again. Marathon plan starts June 30th but I might do week 1 of it twice and start next week to put some structure on my training as I've been making it up as I went along a bit over the last few weeks.

    5.79miles @ 8:10 avg

    WTD|11.34
    MTD|67.77
    YTD|885.71


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    menoscemo wrote: »
    I sometimes do those generic stretches to look the part before/after races :P. No, I never ever ever get injured :o

    Must say I'm not much of a stretcher or roller myself. The science seems pretty inconclusive as well. Certainly cold stretching can be pretty risky!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭DOCO12


    Congrats on your super pb RR! Only catching up on your log now, smashing stuff, you really are on fire! Sorry to hear about the back hope the rest has helped it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Good news about the back, RR. Which marathon plan are you hollowing this time? Sticking with the "meno plan" or trying something else?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Good news about the back, RR. Which marathon plan are you hollowing this time? Sticking with the "meno plan" or trying something else?

    Hi D. Yes I've decided to stick with the "Meno" plan. I'm taking the view "If it aint broke, don't fix it" Having said that I will tweak it slightly to include more 22 mile runs and I will introduce more MP miles later in plan in the hope that this might solve my endurance issues. I will also be adjusting my paces slightly to take into account my recent race form and the fact that I have now pretty much done two marathon training blocks back to back which think gives me some licence to speed up a bit on the pace front. Open to constructive criticism on this.

    So for example I will do my LSRs at 9 min miles this time round rather than 9:30. My thoughts currently are to train for a 3:30 marathon but I'll be very happy with sub 3:40. Not sure if this is the right approach but I'll go with it for now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Sunday 15th June

    Pleasant run with friend this morning from Clontarf out to Sutton and back along the coast. Nice and warm with a slight breeze. A bit of soreness in hamstring again which seems to be still lingering. Probably not helped by my over exuberance in yesterday's run but iced it when I got home and may have to only run easy this week until I can book a session with the physio to try help speed up the healing.

    11.86miles @ 8:48 avg

    WTD|23.2
    MTD|79.63
    YTD|897.57


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    RedRunner wrote: »
    Hi D. Yes I've decided to stick with the "Meno" plan. I'm taking the view "If it aint broke, don't fix it" Having said that I will tweak it slightly to include more 22 mile runs and I will introduce more MP miles later in plan in the hope that this might solve my endurance issues. I will also be adjusting my paces slightly to take into account my recent race form and the fact that I have now pretty much done two marathon training blocks back to back which think gives me some licence to speed up a bit on the pace front. Open to constructive criticism on this.

    So for example I will do my LSRs at 9 min miles this time round rather than 9:30. My thoughts currently are to train for a 3:30 marathon but I'll be very happy with sub 3:40. Not sure if this is the right approach but I'll go with it for now.

    Interesting thoughts there, although I'm not sure I agree. Two x 22-milers looks like enough for me: I'd worry about injury risk and fatigue if there were any more, and there's the added recovery time which makes it harder to have quality sessions midweek. For me, I feel the session is the key to faster times, once there's enough endurance building in the programme, and I believe there is.

    As for how much @MP you need to do, I think the plan has that pretty well covered too, tbh - it certainly seems to agree with the principles in this thread to which pgmcpq referred me the other day.

    It's all about the last 6 miles, as we both well know. I certainly arrived at the 20 mile point in far better shape in 2013 than I did in 2012. I'm confident that trend will continue just by virtue of putting in the training; the real key is avoiding injury.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    I know it was posted somewhere on the DCM 12 graduates thread but do you have a link handy to the full meno plan ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    I know it was posted somewhere on the DCM 12 graduates thread but do you have a link handy to the full meno plan ?

    You would think that I would have a link to my own plan, sadly I don't :confused::pac:;) I do think C_M, RR and possible Beef did up excells.

    Bear in Mind there are two plans floating about the C_M plan for limerick 2013 and the Graduates plan for DCM 2013. Both are quite similar but there were some adjustments due to differing race schedules etc. Weeks can be moved around to suit your race schedule within reason (as long as you are not doing a HM one week out :pac:)

    Also in the Graduates plan I had 10 x 800m (Yassos) as the first workout. I had a vague notion at the time to repeat this 3-4 weeks out from the marathon to mark the improvement...sadly i go sidetracked and forgot to do so :rolleyes:. So In hindsight I would drop that workout and replace with something less taxing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    Hi guys

    My training link is here: rows 2-16 was the plan Meno gave me for Limerick :D I added in some double days myself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Pacing Mule, if you PM me your email address I can send you an excel spreadsheet of the meno plan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Converted my spreadsheet to google doc - hopefully this will work.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iqh0HwS7Tg0CIUOs8LPvyGiPaSKI1LxP0DIV8Vuazm8/edit?usp=sharing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Interesting thoughts there, although I'm not sure I agree. Two x 22-milers looks like enough for me: I'd worry about injury risk and fatigue if there were any more, and there's the added recovery time which makes it harder to have quality sessions midweek. For me, I feel the session is the key to faster times, once there's enough endurance building in the programme, and I believe there is.

    As for how much @MP you need to do, I think the plan has that pretty well covered too, tbh - it certainly seems to agree with the principles in this thread to which pgmcpq referred me the other day.

    It's all about the last 6 miles, as we both well know. I certainly arrived at the 20 mile point in far better shape in 2013 than I did in 2012. I'm confident that trend will continue just by virtue of putting in the training; the real key is avoiding injury.

    Thanks D, appreciate the comments. I'm the same re reaching the 20 mile marker faster last time round, but still had to walk a bit from 23/24 miles which was albeit later than previous attempts. Is the answer just to slow down in order to run the whole thing or is the answer to keep doing the same thing and eventually the fatigue wont kick in until nearer the 26.2 mark? That's what I'm struggling with working out at the moment. Should I concentrate more on running the whole thing this time round and see what that gives me re time or should I go for the faster time and hope that the endurance is that bit better because I've got another marathon training block under the belt ?

    I thought maybe if I added another 22 instead of a 20 and did more MP miles it might train my body to deal with it a bit better but I take your point on the fatigue/injury possibility. I think for sure I will aim for the higher end of the mileage rang on the plan though , this time round.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Monday 16th June

    Woke up this morning and the hamstring was a bit sore. Not only in the place where it was yesterday but also further down the leg at the back of my knee. It was the kind of soreness that subsided once you start moving but if you are still for any length of time then it starts up again. Had planned to run home from work this evening and brought in the gear but said I would make the call later in the day depending on how it felt.

    Decided to do the run. Long story short, I got through the run ok but it didn't feel totally comfortable to be honest so am going to take a few days rest. I have booked a massage for Wednesday too. Unfortunately though my regular masseuse is leaving the practice I attended recently and her replacement doesn't have a suitable appointment this week so just going to another place in town. Just my luck, you find a decent physio/sports masseuse and then they up and leave you!:rolleyes:

    Realised I have two weeks to start of plan not one so I am going to concentrate on getting this sorted and if have to I'll give the irish runner 5 mile a miss on 28th if I have to.

    6.5miles @9:10

    WTD|6.5
    MTD|86.13
    YTD|904.07


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    Good to see the back didn't lay you up for long RR.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    tang1 wrote: »
    Good to see the back didn't lay you up for long RR.

    Cheers Tang. Yes thankfully it was only a minor setback. Now just to sort out the feckin hamstring! Ricing at moment and did some of that AIS stuff that Ososlo waxes lyrical about. You are managing your own recovery really well. Great to see you edging your way back to previous level


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    RedRunner wrote: »
    Cheers Tang. Yes thankfully it was only a minor setback. Now just to sort out the feckin hamstring! Ricing at moment and did some of that AIS stuff that Ososlo waxes lyrical about. You are managing your own recovery really well. Great to see you edging your way back to previous level

    ha ha yeah I know I sound like a broken record but especially for hamstring stuff, it's the business but you got to do it every day;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭HelenAnne


    RedRunner wrote: »
    Monday 16th June

    Decided to do the run. Long story short, I got through the run ok but it didn't feel totally comfortable to be honest so am going to take a few days rest. I have booked a massage for Wednesday too. Unfortunately though my regular masseuse is leaving the practice I attended recently and her replacement doesn't have a suitable appointment this week so just going to another place in town. Just my luck, you find a decent physio/sports masseuse and then they up and leave you!


    I met her replacement -- she's really nice. But I would really recommend the physio I go to in there, Tadhg, he's really nice & I think he's a back genius. He's definitely fixed mine.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Tuesday : Rest
    Wednesday : Rest & Sports massage. Asked her to work on the hamstring especially
    Thursday: Rest
    Friday: Rest
    Saturday: Decided it was time to test the hamstring. There was still some tightness there but different to earlier in the week the pain behind the knee seems to be gone now after the Wednesday massage. Tightness is now concentrated in the high hamstring and glute areas.

    Did a short steady run and felt no pain but felt the tightness. No problem running easy on it just felt if I had to stretch the stride length I may run into issues with it.

    4.54miles @8:14

    Sunday : Wasn't sure whether I should be resting the hamstring or whether that would just be a waste since it doesn't bother me running easy:confused::confused:
    Went out in the end . Brought the kids up to the Kite festival on the beach at Dollymount, they were on the bikes and I ran up. Easy enough effort on the way up. Hung around for a while watching the kites and eating over priced ice cream before heading back home again. THis was around midday so the sun was at its highest but felt ok as it was only a short distance from home. Steady enough run on the way home which ended in a bit of a race with the kids on their bikes. (It's ok Gavlor, they were my kids this time;)). Half expected to feel some pain when I injected the pace but it wasn't too bad. Really not sure what to do about the Irish Runner 5 miler next week. I'm definitely not in pb shape but might be worth doing anyway. I don't think I could rest all week to try shake the hamstring tightness. I think active recovery might be the best approach...I think:confused:

    Did about 20 mins of AIS routine before I went out today and found that it could be useful. Although I could barely get my legs past a 90deg angle:o, not quite a flexible as some of my friends on here:D so I think I'll opt for easy running and lots of stretching this week and I'll decide on the 5miler later in week. I'm travelling to Frankfurt tomorrow for a few days so that'll interrupt the training but I will have an opportunity for a decent length of a run on Tuesday morning. Will be packing my dressing gown belt for the AIS stretching too!

    Today's runs were 2.72miles@8:24 and 2.67miles @8:17


    WTD|16.43
    MTD|96.06
    YTD|914


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    Ah was looking forward to a smackdown next Saturday!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    tang1 wrote: »
    Ah was looking forward to a smackdown next Saturday!!

    Ha ha...so its gone from 'lets pace each other to sub 35' to a smackdown ! You've definitely caught up with your old self!:D

    Don't rule it out yet. I'll see how the week goes but I do love a good race;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Monday 23rd

    Rested as was travelling to Germany with work.

    Tuesday 24th

    Had the morning free so brought the gear with me and planned to do about 10 miles easy. Got a steer from a local contact on good route to run and ended up out in the forest in Sachsenhausen ,Frankfurt. This was a brilliant place to run. Was about 2.5 miles from city centre. There was a 5k loop and a 10k loop but the signs were difficult enough to follow . At one stage I thought I'd be in there forever but it was a most enjoyable run although a bit tiring. I was more tired than I should have been but didn't sleep that great the night before and had been up since 6.30 to get some breakfast in before I headed out. Took a wrong turn on the way back to city so ended up doing a bit more than planned:

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/529011011


    12.65 miles @9:12

    BTW German runners just don't say hello or wave back. I gave up after the fourth attempt!:rolleyes:

    Wednesday 25th

    Nothing due to travelling home. Flight was delayed because of French and Belgian strikes.:mad:


    Thursday 26th

    Easy run home from work. Tightness is still there in the right glute and hamstring. Very annoying. Will keep with the stretching though. I've decided to do the five miler on Saturday but not putting any pressure on myself to do well. Training has been very patchy over the last few weeks and prep this week not great as well as carrying this niggle. So will rest tomorrow and stretch the bejaysus out of my hammer and glute between now and then. If I can do it at 10k pace I think I'll be happy enough but sure I may as well go and collect my tee-shirt anyway and try and enjoy it.

    6.73miles @ 8:34

    WTD|19.38
    MTD|115.44
    YTD|933.38


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    RedRunner wrote: »
    BTW German runners just don't say hello or wave back. I gave up after the fourth attempt!:rolleyes:

    Sounds like what I experience every day in Dublin.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭barryoneill50


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Sounds like what I experience every day in Dublin.....

    Noticed that in dublin myself, just started running around town, gave up saying hi or nodding etc....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    RedRunner wrote: »
    Monday 23rd


    BTW German runners just don't say hello or wave back. I gave up after the fourth attempt!:rolleyes:

    maybe they didn't understand you. Next time say 'Hallo' and see if you get a better response:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Ososlo wrote: »
    maybe they didn't understand you. Next time say 'Hallo' and see if you get a better response:D

    Nope, said good morning in German to some walkers and they acknowledge me. Maybe it was the way I waved at them? Hand and arm extended diagonally in a salute kind of fashion;):)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Sounds like what I experience every day in Dublin.....

    I got a couple of hellos running home from work today. Must be just you P. ;)
    Or probably just because you are going so fast these days...they don't get a chance :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭DOCO12


    My arms are super toned from waving at all the cars that go past me around here, know the person or not you always salute ;)


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