Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

padd b1975 · 10-06-2014 03:03PM

Rawhead wrote: »

People saying Kilkenny dominated the hurling are forgetting that they have a population of 80,000, so it was always going to be a relatively short based thing. Dublin have the population, finances and structures now in place to dominate for years and years. The senior championship in Dublin would be Div 3 level in the national league.

I wouldn't be quite so quick to play the population argument if you look at it a bit closer.

The south side of Dublin have three senior clubs of note,Kilmacud, Thomas Davies and Ballyboden St. Endas.

All three would have a large number of teams but only one (Kilmacud) would be consistently competitive at the highest level.

Northside only have Ballymun and Vincent's who could be described as competitive on a national stage.

In my opinion Dublin's recent dominance has come off the back of well run elite development squads right up along the age groups.
For this to be successful you need money to throw at coaches, facilities and equipment.

Population comes a distant second as a contributing factor.

lorenzo87 · 10-06-2014 03:09PM

I must say the Croke Park argument is a really strong opinion of mine too.
Take Dublin out of Croke Park and let's see how good they are, but the GAA will lose money if they move a game to Hyde or Semple Stadium. The sooner the GAA lose their greed, the better it will be for the game.
I also personally think the Championship layout is terrible for both hurling and football. I would love to see a provincial championship separate to the All-Ireland and then have an open draw for the All-Ireland, with every game up until the Q-F's played at a neutral venue... I love the idea of a first round knockout match between Mayo and Kerry in Semple Stadium and it would also give the smaller counties a chance of getting a string of wins. If they didn't like the open draw idea, they could also do an open seeded structure but for me the layout at the moment is very boring and the back door system detracts from the championship.

ultrapercy · 10-06-2014 03:14PM

ColeTrain wrote: »

Yes, for talking nonsense.

What nonsense?

Rawhead · 10-06-2014 03:28PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

I wouldn't be quite so quick to play the population argument if you look at it a bit closer.

The south side of Dublin have three senior clubs of note,Kilmacud, Thomas Davies and Ballyboden St. Endas.

All three would have a large number of teams but only one (Kilmacud) would be consistently competitive at the highest level.

Northside only have Ballymun and Vincent's who could be described as competitive on a national stage.

In my opinion Dublin's recent dominance has come off the back of well run elite development squads right up along the age groups.
For this to be successful you need money to throw at coaches, facilities and equipment.

Population comes a distant second as a contributing factor.

If population matters so little then Ireland should be genuine world cup contenders and in with the USA and China for Olympic medals.
Of course the structures in place in Dublin are massively important , but its the massive populations around these clubs that increase your chances of finding quality players. This isn't the fault of anyone particularly, we are moving from a rural to an urban society, but the fact remains that St Bridget's in Castleknock has a bigger population base than 80% of the counties in Ireland.
What the GAA can change though is giving the dubs home advantage for every game, although with the recent Sky deal I think it's clear that money is now the sole thought in all decisions made in HQ.

SeanJ09 · 10-06-2014 04:48PM

Rawhead wrote: »

A dub gloating about being a mighty team shows how stupid he really is.
The Dubs are good because;
1. The GAA pumped untold millions into Dublin in the 90's to counteract the growth of soccer and rugby.
2. Dublin has a population 10 times bigger than Mayo.
3. 14 full time coaches
4. Croke Park as home pitch. Come down to the Hyde and see how ye play on that, I can 100% guartantee you won't be scoring double figures on them. Playing all games in Croker is a HUGE advantage.
5. All the players live at home or with in 10 miles of training. None of them travelling up from Blacksod or Macroom for training on a Wednesday.
6. 15 cars from Toyota for the senior panel to use.
7. A bottomless pit of money.

DESPITE ALL THOSE ADVANTAGES YE ONLY BEAT US BY A SINGLE POINT LAST YEAR, DREW WITH US IN THE LEAGUE AND GOT BEATEN BY US IN THE SEMI FINAL THE YEAR BEFORE.

So in reality Dublin are the first professional team in Gaelic games. What Kerry and Kilkenny achieved in the sport is remarkable with their populations and resources, Dublin are just the product of money. The players are a nice bunch of lads and I don't begrudge them anything, but "supporters" ignoring the myriad advantages ye have is ignorance of the highest order.

This whole argument about Dublin having an advantage because of a higher population, playing in Croke Park , having greater funding etc is getting tiresome really. No one was complaining about Dublin having all these things when they weren't winning All Irelands. Maybe its the case that long term planning and investment has come to fruition now, and the result is arguably the finest panel of footballers we have seen in a long time. Get over it.

Kalyke · 10-06-2014 05:17PM

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/why-james-horan-is-this-centurys-best-football-manager

Just noticed its a bit out of date.

seligehgit · 10-06-2014 05:42PM

lorenzo87 wrote: »

Ok, fair enough, I was just giving my opinion.
The fact remains that Mayo every year have the easiest passage to the All-ireland semi's through Connaught. They get over-hyped every year, they think they are going to win it every year (I know because I live in Mayo and have to listen to it) and for me last year was probably one of the worst All-Irelands that I can remember and Mayo really did bottle a huge opportunity. Real champions win All-Irelands, that is the bottom line. So when Mayo win an All-Ireland, come back to me and then tell me ye have leaders but I think I'll be waiting.

I really do not know where you are coming from,the vast,vast majority of Mayo supporters have entirely realistic expectations re our ability to win an All Ireland on an annual basis.This thread readily illustrates same.We're on the road long enough in our quest to win an All Ireland after such a prolonged famine.

As has been mentioned,what do you outsiders expect us to do?Give up on the quest to win an All Ireland,wave the white flag.Within reason any of the top teams should have winning an All Ireland as an objective.

Detest the gloating and rubbing one's nose in it that some posters appear to relish in.Constructive criticism is always welcomed and many non Mayo posters offer same and fair comment that hurts Mayo supporters to hear.Let's not lose sight of the fact that these lads are amateur players and do not deserve derision.Real supporters will support them through thick and thin.

Rawhead · 10-06-2014 06:15PM

SeanJ09 wrote: »

This whole argument about Dublin having an advantage because of a higher population, playing in Croke Park , having greater funding etc is getting tiresome really. No one was complaining about Dublin having all these things when they weren't winning All Irelands. Maybe its the case that long term planning and investment has come to fruition now, and the result is arguably the finest panel of footballers we have seen in a long time. Get over it.

So what do we do? Ignore that one team has an outrageous advantage over everyone else and just listen to ignorant bandwagon jumpers of fans who wouldn't know where Parnell park is rave on about having the finest panel of footballers in the history of Gaelic games because of the water from the Liffey.

This wasn't an issue 20 years ago because Dublin wasn't getting a hugely disproportionate amount of money from HQ. The seeds of this problem where sown in the late 80's and early 90's with the success of big Jack and the boys and panic investment by Croke Park.

Croke Park know this is a problem but they are just trying to milk another couple of seasons out of Dublin before people just stop going to see Dublin hammer their team. Watch the attendance figures this year in the Leinster championship, it's already happening. It's one of the most used statements going, but the fact that one of the greatest forwards of our generation has never played championship football outside HQ is truly awful.

GBXI · 11-06-2014 10:54AM

Rawhead wrote: »

So what do we do? Ignore that one team has an outrageous advantage over everyone else and just listen to ignorant bandwagon jumpers of fans who wouldn't know where Parnell park is rave on about having the finest panel of footballers in the history of Gaelic games because of the water from the Liffey.

This wasn't an issue 20 years ago because Dublin wasn't getting a hugely disproportionate amount of money from HQ. The seeds of this problem where sown in the late 80's and early 90's with the success of big Jack and the boys and panic investment by Croke Park.

Croke Park know this is a problem but they are just trying to milk another couple of seasons out of Dublin before people just stop going to see Dublin hammer their team. Watch the attendance figures this year in the Leinster championship, it's already happening. It's one of the most used statements going, but the fact that one of the greatest forwards of our generation has never played championship football outside HQ is truly awful.

From a Mayo-man, would you give over with the Dublin ranting and raving. It's very questionable as to them getting to play all their Leinster matches in Croke Park but other than that they are the best team because they have an incredible group of players and a good manager at the one time. It's cyclical, like it is in every other single county. In time they will be back down the ladder and someone else will be at the top.

davegrohl48 · 11-06-2014 11:01AM

Thoughts on game looking at what went well and the work ons.
Goalkeeping - kickouts just seemed long n random. Kevin Mc being an aerial option at 5'11"??? Won that ball but strange option.
Full backline - played well n were left unaided for the goal. Left wing unforgiveably wide open.
Half backline - only Boyle performed. As the pace of the All Ireland series moves on each year Vaughans cross country background leaves him short of horse power from a standing start. He is missing a yard of pace surely noticeable in fitness testing at this stage if we're trying to compete with the Dubs, pace over 20 m needs to be top of the list of changes for 2014.
Midfield - AOS should have a 55 min role. Getting sports science on it he's 95kg n has speed n power. What gives though is his ability to sustain that over a full game. He was born for power not endurance. MDMA who he is often measured against is lighter n less powerful. Similar Cian OSullivan/Sean Cavanagh.
Half forward line - Too early for Diarmuid OConnor ... yet again poor physical preparedness by mgmt. He is not physically ready yet so why is he starting? No blame on the player he's being asked too much too early. (Note 19 year old Murtagh of Ros is same age but is naturally more of a beasht of a young fella. He competed with Tom Cunniffe n that tells you all)
COS - won plenty ball but was not playing calm.His debut tthough so thought was decent for a debut. Kicking technique needs work tends to get under the ball rather than kick through it. Skyed one 60m into the air twice.
Jason Doherty was okayish seemed to win some ball but had one innacurate kickpass that was poor.
Full forward line - suffered from lax refereeing. Collins foot trip was an easy black card to spot given that he just missed the ball with first attempt n the ball was well away from him on the blatant and potential to injure trip.
Overall too much sideways n backwards passing. Too inexperienced a half forward line. Far too much attacking into coverage by the half backline. On a note had to be a record for amount of high tackles on one player. Referee did not protect Colm Boyle after the third one it was time to issue a warning. Will watch it again but must have been 7 high tackles? He was on the ground tired from them at the end.

ultrapercy · 11-06-2014 12:06PM

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Thoughts on game looking at what went well and the work ons.
Goalkeeping - kickouts just seemed long n random. Kevin Mc being an aerial option at 5'11"??? Won that ball but strange option.
Full backline - played well n were left unaided for the goal. Left wing unforgiveably wide open.
Half backline - only Boyle performed. As the pace of the All Ireland series moves on each year Vaughans cross country background leaves him short of horse power from a standing start. He is missing a yard of pace surely noticeable in fitness testing at this stage if we're trying to compete with the Dubs, pace over 20 m needs to be top of the list of changes for 2014.
Midfield - AOS should have a 55 min role. Getting sports science on it he's 95kg n has speed n power. What gives though is his ability to sustain that over a full game. He was born for power not endurance. MDMA who he is often measured against is lighter n less powerful. Similar Cian OSullivan/Sean Cavanagh.
Half forward line - Too early for Diarmuid OConnor ... yet again poor physical preparedness by mgmt. He is not physically ready yet so why is he starting? No blame on the player he's being asked too much too early. (Note 19 year old Murtagh of Ros is same age but is naturally more of a beasht of a young fella. He competed with Tom Cunniffe n that tells you all)
COS - won plenty ball but was not playing calm.His debut tthough so thought was decent for a debut. Kicking technique needs work tends to get under the ball rather than kick through it. Skyed one 60m into the air twice.
Jason Doherty was okayish seemed to win some ball but had one innacurate kickpass that was poor.
Full forward line - suffered from lax refereeing. Collins foot trip was an easy black card to spot given that he just missed the ball with first attempt n the ball was well away from him on the blatant and potential to injure trip.
Overall too much sideways n backwards passing. Too inexperienced a half forward line. Far too much attacking into coverage by the half backline. On a note had to be a record for amount of high tackles on one player. Referee did not protect Colm Boyle after the third one it was time to issue a warning. Will watch it again but must have been 7 high tackles? He was on the ground tired from them at the end.

With regard to AOS, its very easy to increase endurance. He could easily drop 5kg without compromising strength or power. I think there is an over emphasis on upper body strength throughout the game at the moment and that may be a factor in the glut of cruciate injuries that are happening. The same thing happened in the early 90s in soccer. Thats off the topic of AOS who really could use some more old fashioned laps and 3/4 paced runs and less benching. He is a good player and athlete but seems to have been conditioned more for rugby than gaa.

Cosmo Kramer · 11-06-2014 12:57PM

I thought this was a very good article in relation to the game on Sunday and the position of each team going into it. Roscommon played and lost their All Ireland final on Sunday, we have a long way to go yet just to get into ours.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-mayo-need-to-put-this-tough-day-behind-them-1.1827441?page=1

Darragh O'Se wrote: »

I have sympathy for last year’s beaten finalists because there’s nothing worse than playing a team whose year is all about beating you.

We're there to be shot at in the provincial fixtures and as long as you are still standing after each one there shouldn't be too much to complain about.

GBXI · 11-06-2014 01:24PM

ultrapercy wrote: »

With regard to AOS, its very easy to increase endurance. He could easily drop 5kg without compromising strength or power. I think there is an over emphasis on upper body strength throughout the game at the moment and that may be a factor in the glut of cruciate injuries that are happening. The same thing happened in the early 90s in soccer. Thats off the topic of AOS who really could use some more old fashioned laps and 3/4 paced runs and less benching. He is a good player and athlete but seems to have been conditioned more for rugby than gaa.

Again, Aidan O'Shea is in no way lacking fitness. Himself and Seamus, along with Boyle covered a huge amount of ground and made any number of tackles. His is probably one of the fittest on the team. He's a massive lad naturally, that is not going to change and it doesn't need to.

Syferus · 11-06-2014 01:59PM

AOS tries but he is a terrible tackler. Everyone knows you can expose him if you have ball in hand.

davegrohl48 · 11-06-2014 02:01PM

GBXI wrote: »

Again, Aidan O'Shea is in no way lacking fitness. Himself and Seamus, along with Boyle covered a huge amount of ground and made any number of tackles. His is probably one of the fittest on the team. He's a massive lad naturally, that is not going to change and it doesn't need to.

I'd say he's as fit as they'll get him. He looks as lean as I'v seen him but I still think he's built for power naturally. Don't think he's overly developed in the arms upper body. Has the power/weight mainly in legs/hips. He is very fit for his size but look close at his running speed late in games. Noticeably dips.

davegrohl48 · 11-06-2014 02:01PM

GBXI wrote: »

Again, Aidan O'Shea is in no way lacking fitness. Himself and Seamus, along with Boyle covered a huge amount of ground and made any number of tackles. His is probably one of the fittest on the team. He's a massive lad naturally, that is not going to change and it doesn't need to.

I'd say he's as fit as they'll get him. He looks as lean as I'v seen him but I still think he's built for power naturally. Don't think he's overly developed in the arms upper body. Has the power/weight mainly in legs/hips. He is very fit for his size but look close at his running speed late in games. Noticeably dips.

GBXI · 11-06-2014 02:09PM

Syferus wrote: »

AOS tries but he is a terrible tackler. Everyone knows you can expose him if you have ball in hand.

He's widely regarded as a good tackler.

Syferus · 11-06-2014 02:37PM

GBXI wrote: »

He's widely regarded as a good tackler.

No he is not.

If the man he's on has any sort of pace AOS will usually get a flailing hand in as the man is passing him by. Unless a player is stupid enough to run into AOS it's very easy to slip by him.

His brother is a far better tackler and even he is encumbered by his size too. Large lads and good tackling don't go hand-in-hand.

GBXI · 11-06-2014 02:44PM

Syferus wrote: »

No he is not.

If the man he's on has any sort of pace AOS will usually get a flailing hand in as the man his passing him by. Unless a player is stupid enough to run into AOS it's very easy to slip by him.

Well we can go back and forth on this but he is a good tackler. The argument of easily going past him if the player has pace is moot because very few players have the pace. Watch how often O'Shea has been tasked with being the more defensive of the two mid-fielders, and also note how good he is at slowing players down with his size.

davegrohl48 · 11-06-2014 02:57PM

GBXI wrote: »

Well we can go back and forth on this but he is a good tackler. The argument of easily going past him if the player has pace is moot because very few players have the pace. Watch how often O'Shea has been tasked with being the more defensive of the two mid-fielders, and also note how good he is at slowing players down with his size.

He had an outstanding tackle arriving at serious pace last day. He has robbed MDMA several times in 2012. AOS is a huge plus for us with his turnovers that he wins that very few other players have the strength to win. Commonly accepted by media pundits his turnover ability.

ultrapercy · 11-06-2014 03:10PM

GBXI wrote: »

Again, Aidan O'Shea is in no way lacking fitness. Himself and Seamus, along with Boyle covered a huge amount of ground and made any number of tackles. His is probably one of the fittest on the team. He's a massive lad naturally, that is not going to change and it doesn't need to.

Again I never said he laced fitness, I said he is conditioned incorrectly. Usain Bolt is not unfit but he wouldnt run a good marathon. I just think the emphasis is a little off
with AOS.

ArielAtom · 11-06-2014 04:10PM

Rawhead wrote: »

A dub gloating about being a mighty team shows how stupid he really is.
The Dubs are good because;
1. The GAA pumped untold millions into Dublin in the 90's to counteract the growth of soccer and rugby. It was 2005 the Dublin received the 5m
2. Dublin has a population 10 times bigger than Mayo. Alot of who are Country people living here but heading home at the weekend
3. 14 full time coaches. How many have Mayo?
4. Croke Park as home pitch. Come down to the Hyde and see how ye play on that, I can 100% guartantee you won't be scoring double figures on them. Playing all games in Croker is a HUGE advantage. Parnell Park is Dublins home pitch, The GAA decide to have Dublin play their home games at a neutral venue albeit it in the same city
5. All the players live at home or with in 10 miles of training. None of them travelling up from Blacksod or Macroom for training on a Wednesday. No they dont
6. 15 cars from Toyota for the senior panel to use. Was unaware it was Toyota now
7. A bottomless pit of money. I would not say its bottomless, but they do work hard fundraising.

DESPITE ALL THOSE ADVANTAGES YE ONLY BEAT US BY A SINGLE POINT LAST YEAR, DREW WITH US IN THE LEAGUE AND GOT BEATEN BY US IN THE SEMI FINAL THE YEAR BEFORE.

So in reality Dublin are the first professional team in Gaelic games. What Kerry and Kilkenny achieved in the sport is remarkable with their populations and resources, Dublin are just the product of money. The players are a nice bunch of lads and I don't begrudge them anything, but "supporters" ignoring the myriad advantages ye have is ignorance of the highest order.

The last paragraph is laughable especially the professional bit. They are either students or in full time employment. Money does not guarantee success, hard work and talent do.

Ignorance is spouting off BS like above.

Rawhead · 11-06-2014 06:17PM

ultrapercy wrote: »

Again I never said he laced fitness, I said he is conditioned incorrectly. Usain Bolt is not unfit but he wouldnt run a good marathon. I just think the emphasis is a little off
with AOS.

I would say that the AOS of this year and last compared with 3 years ago fitness wise is chalk and cheese. The problem with him is just his size, he is too big for 70 minutes of football at the level it is played at today. He is 6'5 and 16 stones, you cannot carry that mass up and down a field all day. We need to start looking at him as a 50 minute player, similar to rugby. The question is do you start him or use him as a massive impact player, I'd be thinking the latter.

As for my Dublin friend, student is generally seen as a euphemism for training full time in all counties (McCaffrey studying medicine being an exception). That's me done on Dublin ranting for a few months.

Always_Running · 11-06-2014 06:41PM

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I thought this was a very good article in relation to the game on Sunday and the position of each team going into it. Roscommon played and lost their All Ireland final on Sunday, we have a long way to go yet just to get into ours.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-mayo-need-to-put-this-tough-day-behind-them-1.1827441?page=1

We're there to be shot at in the provincial fixtures and as long as you are still standing after each one there shouldn't be too much to complain about.

If that theory is correct then the Rossies will have nothing to play for in qualifiers and will likely get beaten in the their first game. TBH no need for Darragh O'Shea or anyone else to in the media to sugarcoat a poor Mayo performance on Sunday if anyway the Mayo players and management will very determined to produce a much improved performance in the Connacht final.

lorenzo87 · 11-06-2014 09:12PM

Aidan O'Shea is a terrific tackler, and he dominated the sport in midfield last season along with Dara Mac..
Whatever my feelings on Mayo, I think slating AOS is a joke.
He didn't have a good game against Roscommon and for me that is the sole reason Roscommon nearly won.
When AOS is on song, nobody can live with him.
Also people saying he ain't fit? Give over, the lad is training 9 months of the year, 4 or 5 days a week.

ArielAtom · 11-06-2014 09:52PM

Rawhead wrote: »

I would say that the AOS of this year and last compared with 3 years ago fitness wise is chalk and cheese. The problem with him is just his size, he is too big for 70 minutes of football at the level it is played at today. He is 6'5 and 16 stones, you cannot carry that mass up and down a field all day. We need to start looking at him as a 50 minute player, similar to rugby. The question is do you start him or use him as a massive impact player, I'd be thinking the latter.

As for my Dublin friend, student is generally seen as a euphemism for training full time in all counties (McCaffrey studying medicine being an exception). That's me done on Dublin ranting for a few months.

Maybe in Mayo but our lads studyðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰

eastmayo · 11-06-2014 09:53PM

Anyone hear that andy moran done his hamstring in training,hope it's not true

homewardbound11 · 11-06-2014 10:37PM

I think daragh was putting some poetic writing to a poor game. Some elements of truth in there. A few things of note

Don't be surprised if Roscommon are in the last 8.

If we are to kick on this year then it will be pretty much the same team as last year. We finished the game with pretty much the same team as last years final. This doesn't bode to well compared to Dublin.

There is room and time for improvement till the Connaught final but it is hard to see it at them moment. I doubt we will learn anything from the Connaught final either so wither it is the qualifiers or other hopefully it won't be too late.

Cosmo Kramer · 11-06-2014 11:12PM

I will be shocked if Roscommon make the last 8. They'll have to get a favourable home draw in all three qualifier rounds and they're on the tough side of the qualifier draw. As soon as they draw a top 10 or 12 team away from home their season will end.

jibber5000 · 11-06-2014 11:25PM

lorenzo87 wrote: »

Aidan O'Shea is a terrific tackler, and he dominated the sport in midfield last season along with Dara Mac..
Whatever my feelings on Mayo, I think slating AOS is a joke.
He didn't have a good game against Roscommon and for me that is the sole reason Roscommon nearly won.
When AOS is on song, nobody can live with him.
Also people saying he ain't fit? Give over, the lad is training 9 months of the year, 4 or 5 days a week.

To be truthfully honest Aidan O'Shea's performances have dropped off a cliff since the Donegal game last year..I firmly believe that performance went straight to his head..In 4 big games he's played in the meantime ( AI final, county final, National league semi and last Sunday) he's been really average..
The All ireland was a disaster while the county final performance for Breaffy was so bad it beggered belief..

On Sunday Kevin Higgins could have had a field day on him..He had 8 attempts on goal only managing one point..it was division 3 level shooting..Not only is he struggling defending but his failure to let quick ball into the forwards ( much like Seamie a solo has to be taken before a play is made) is not helping our woes up front..To say he is one of the top two midfielders in the country on present form is plainly wrong

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