How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

10-06-2014 01:27PM

I do know of a case about a retired Garda who was pretty high up, molested 2 women, everybody knows he did it. It went to court and he was found not guilty when some Garda friends went alibi for him despite him being witnessed in the place at that time. The neighborhood have shunned him though.

Very similar to the Dalkey horror house, it seems there is a Garda involved in that and has been protected for years. One of the victims has since committed suicide.

But in every profession there are the bad eggs its just unfortunate that it happens in the gards as people generally hold them to high regard, as they should.

Right now the feeling in the gards is pretty bad. Alot of them want to leave and have left. I think there will be changes afoot. I have been pretty much outspoken about them in my area as of recent, basically not doing the job properly. People getting robbed left right and centre with nothing being done.

But i was involved in an incident recently on the M50 when a guy jumped off a bridge to the ground, we nearly hit him, he ended up under our car. The garda were there in 2 minutes attending to him. He survived, so my hats off to them for that.

Muahahaha · 10-06-2014 01:48PM

Anyway back on topic. Indo poll came out this morning. It asked over 1000 people if the next Garda Commissioner should come from inside the force or be an external candidate. A large majority, 64%. said the candidate should come from outside the force. Only 27% of respondents thought the candidate should be internally sourced.

So essentially the public now view the senior ranks of AGS as so corrupt that they are not capable of reforming themselves. To me that is not surprising, you only have to look at the actions (or more to the point non-actions) of Noirin OSullivan since she became Acting Commissioner. It's just more of the same from the old boys brigade, nothing to see here, move along now.

Muahahaha · 10-06-2014 02:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I do know of a case about a retired Garda who was pretty high up, molested 2 women, everybody knows he did it. It went to court and he was found not guilty when some Garda friends went alibi for him despite him being witnessed in the place at that time. The neighborhood have shunned him though.

Very similar to the Dalkey horror house, it seems there is a Garda involved in that and has been protected for years. One of the victims has since committed suicide.

But in every profession there are the bad eggs its just unfortunate that it happens in the gards as people generally hold them to high regard, as they should.

Right now the feeling in the gards is pretty bad. Alot of them want to leave and have left. I think there will be changes afoot. I have been pretty much outspoken about them in my area as of recent, basically not doing the job properly. People getting robbed left right and centre with nothing being done.

But i was involved in an incident recently on the M50 when a guy jumped off a bridge to the ground, we nearly hit him, he ended up under our car. The garda were there in 2 minutes attending to him. He survived, so my hats off to them for that.

I think you've hot the nail on the head there, that's the paradox we are seeing with the Gardai at the moment. On the one hand we see incredible bravery on a pretty regular basis, like that off duty Garda who disarmed a bank robber in Drogheda last week. They are the true heroes of the force.

But on the other hand we're seeing a culture of corruption/malpractice or sheer incompetence. Sylvia Roche Kelly is dead because certain Gardai didn't perform their duties and that is just unacceptable in the eyes of the public. Another woman had her daughter raped by a neighbour and the Gardai failed to even investigate and then covered up by not cooperating with the GSOC investigation into the cover up, even GSOC gave up after four years of the Gardai not cooperating with them. Then we have Kieran Boylan in Dundalk with Gardai permitting him to import heroin so he could supply it to local dealers who they would then arrest to get promotions. Now Dundalk has a heroin problem because the very people who were supposed to be keeping it off the streets were responsible for getting it there.

The common thread that runs through all those incidents is a culture of omertà, as Judge Morris put it "loyalty over honesty". So when cases like the above emerge the instant reaction of senior Gardai was to cover up and pretend it didn't happen. Obfuscate and frustrate any investigations of GSOC, hell even bug them if you have to.

All those incidents are unacceptable to the general public. We deserve better and the hardworking honest Gardai who put themselves on the line everyday deserve better.

Shady Tady · 10-06-2014 02:55PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyway back on topic. Indo poll came out this morning. It asked over 1000 people if the next Garda Commissioner should come from inside the force or be an external candidate. A large majority, 64%. said the candidate should come from outside the force. Only 27% of respondents thought the candidate should be internally sourced.

So essentially the public now view the senior ranks of AGS as so corrupt that they are not capable of reforming themselves. To me that is not surprising, you only have to look at the actions (or more to the point non-actions) of Noirin OSullivan since she became Acting Commissioner. It's just more of the same from the old boys brigade, nothing to see here, move along now.

And you think an outside commissioner will radically change things, horse****, there will still be political interference and that's the elephant in the room. It's the appointment of senior officers by cabinet that's the problem. Do you think a senior garda who is looking for promotion is going to rock the boat and talk about lack of resources. The next commissioner will stand beside the justice minister and rattle off the DOJ mantra of we have all the resources we need. When I hear that again the commissioner will lose my respect as a garda wherever they come from. But if it makes you feel better get an outside one!

Little CuChulainn · 10-06-2014 03:27PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you dont think that a girl who had just been sexually groped would think that the next step in the crime is rape ? If a man is willing to sexually grope a female well then he's certainly prepared to rape her- both actions show zero regard for her bodily integrity and are one and the same to any woman. The very fact she ran away up the street shows she was scared out of her wits. You seem to make light of the seriousness of it, I hope your daughter is never placed in that same situation, I'm sure if she was then you'd appreciate her fear of being raped.

No. Women do not assume the next step to being groped is being raped. That's a ridiculous notion and demonstrates how little you know about sexual assault or the victims of rape.

Deleted User wrote: »

When I got to Kingscourt I told the four lads they would have to get off it was the last stop. I still had about six locals on the bus who I was going to drop home because I would always leave them home. The four lads refused to get off when asked. The biggest lad kept saying to ring the Guards that he wasn't moving he wanted to be taken to Ardee. He refused to get off for about half an hour and the other people just got impatient as they wanted to get home so they got off. One girl was still on the bus she didn’t get off.

When the passengers were getting off the biggest lad groped another girl when she was getting off. The four lads were still on the bus at this stage. I then agreed to take them to Ardee and the lad sitting behind me said out loud to the other lads that ‘we'll pay her well if she does it’. The biggest lad then started shouting ‘she’s getting nothing off me I’ll just take the bus and take myself ****ing home’.

Are you for real? You call that a hijacking? This is the real problem with Garda bashing threads. People don't have a ****ing clue what they are talking about. They don't have a clue about the law or the courts or the criminal justice system outside what they see on Law and Order. They don't even understand the purpose of an arrest in Ireland. if you had arrested someone for hijacking and sexual assault based on that story you would be facing the loss of your own home in a civil case for false arrest and false imprisonment.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Sylvia Roche Kelly is dead because certain Gardai didn't perform their duties and that is just unacceptable in the eyes of the public.

She's dead because of Irelands bail laws.

RustyNut · 10-06-2014 03:35PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No. Women do not assume the next step to being groped is being raped. That's a ridiculous notion and demonstrates how little you know about sexual assault or the victims of rape.

Are you for real? You call that a hijacking? This is the real problem with Garda bashing threads. People don't have a ****ing clue what they are talking about. They don't have a clue about the law or the courts or the criminal justice system outside what they see on Law and Order. They don't even understand the purpose of an arrest in Ireland. if you had arrested someone for hijacking and sexual assault based on that story you would be facing the loss of your own home in a civil case for false arrest and false imprisonment.

She's dead because of Irelands bail laws.

Can you link to a case where a Garda lost their home in a civil case for false arrest or did you just make that up?

Little CuChulainn · 10-06-2014 05:14PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Can you link to a case where a Garda lost their home in a civil case for false arrest or did you just make that up?

Make what up? A Garda can be held personally liable for a civil case if he is deemed to have acted against procedure. Fortunately there hasn't been a case where it's been necessary, proabably because most Gardaí aren't stupid enough to do something like arrest a drunk taxi fare for hijacking, but that doesn't mean it's not a danger.

RustyNut · 10-06-2014 06:16PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Make what up? A Garda can be held personally liable for a civil case if he is deemed to have acted against procedure. Fortunately there hasn't been a case where it's been necessary, proabably because most Gardaí aren't stupid enough to do something like arrest a drunk taxi fare for hijacking, but that doesn't mean it's not a danger.

So no Garda has actually lost their own property for false arrest, a bit like the guerin report doesn't actually say that Sargent Mcabe is a bad Sargent.

Some people really seem to follow the garda management policy of loyalty over honesty.

Little CuChulainn · 10-06-2014 06:31PM

RustyNut wrote: »

So no Garda has actually lost their own property for false arrest, a bit like the guerin report doesn't actually say that Sargent Mcabe is a bad Sargent.

Some people really seem to follow the garda management policy of loyalty over honesty.

I've been completely honest. If you can quote a single sentence from me that was not honest then please do.

The fact is that the Guerin report does reflect poorly on McCabe and if you'd bothered to read the sections I highlighted you would see that Guerin himself comments on McCabes suggested charges saying "it was never a likely charge". It's not my fault that you are so tunnel visioned that you ignore everything that doesn't suit your agenda. The fact that you trust a few comments from supervisors in a report about the ineffectiveness of supervisors just shows how hypocritical you are. Unless you are going to quote a single dishonest thing i have said or argue the points I raised from the Guerin report I have no desire to continue feeding you.

And as to civil liability of Gardaí, this is a measure introduced in the Garda Síochana Act. Every Garda knows they can be held personally liable for a civil case where they have been dishonest, corrupt or negligent. Perhaps you do not know the cost of a civil case but I can assure you it would indeed put your home in jeopardy. If you've satisfied yourself that it can't happen because it hasn't before then I don't know what to say. I don't see how I can argue with someone who only believes in precedent and can't look ahead to future consequences.

Muahahaha · 10-06-2014 07:17PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

And you think an outside commissioner will radically change things, horse****, there will still be political interference and that's the elephant in the room. It's the appointment of senior officers by cabinet that's the problem. Do you think a senior garda who is looking for promotion is going to rock the boat and talk about lack of resources. The next commissioner will stand beside the justice minister and rattle off the DOJ mantra of we have all the resources we need. When I hear that again the commissioner will lose my respect as a garda wherever they come from. But if it makes you feel better get an outside one!

Depends who is recruited. If the Minister for Justice really wants a strong leader to reform the force then they should be looking at someone of the calibre of Nuala o'Loan, she has proved herself to be competent at re-organising dysfunctional police forces and would take no sh1t from any politician, she knows her job and knows how to get it done and her previous track record and reputation stands her well in that regard. Or there is the former chief of the Boston police, he too reformed much corruption in his force. There's no lack of good candidates going to be applying for this, nobody in the senior ranks of AGS has the experience of reforming an entire police force so it's pretty clear that the MoJ has little choice but to go outside the force as there is a lack of proven talent there to get the job done.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No. Women do not assume the next step to being groped is being raped. That's a ridiculous notion and demonstrates how little you know about sexual assault or the victims of rape.

How do you know what all women think. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a woman who had just been groped in a dark alleyway wouldn't be in fear of being raped ? As I said previously groping happens a lot in nightclubs, pubs, etc where the potential to rape isn't present. But introduce the potential and opportunity to rape and I can assure you that any woman who has been sexually groped is now in fear of being raped, or worse. You seem to just take such crimes against women lightly, which is pretty much how Gardai over the decades have treated a lot of crimes against women.

She's dead because of Irelands bail laws.

Well plenty of journalists are reporting that she is dead because the Gardai failed to inform the judge that her eventual murderer was already out on bail for violently assaulting a female taxi driver in Cavan. He had just kidnapped and abducted a 5 year old child in Tipperary and Gardai failed to inform the judge that he was already out on bail according to the newspapers. Further to this the Garda in Cavan who dealt with the violent assault in Cavan listed it on Pulse as a minor assault. The female taxi driver was beaten black and blue by him, her hair was pulled out and the perpetrator had his dick out of his pants ready to rape her and the Garda listed it as a minor assault ? It's pretty obvious what happened here, incompetence in Cavan led to incompetence in Tipperary which led to Sylvia Roche Kelly being murdered.
Anyway it's all before the High Court on June 30 so let the judge decide, either way the Gardai are not going to come out of this incident glowing.

Little CuChulainn · 10-06-2014 08:09PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

How do you know what all women think. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a woman who had just been groped in a dark alleyway wouldn't be in fear of being raped ? As I said previously groping happens a lot in nightclubs, pubs, etc where the potential to rape isn't present. But introduce the potential and opportunity to rape and I can assure you that any woman who has been sexually groped is now in fear of being raped, or worse. You seem to just take such crimes against women lightly, which is pretty much how Gardai over the decades have treated a lot of crimes against women.

Hang on there, it was you who stated how all women think. I merely rebuked it. But of course it suits you to ignore that. And I see you've moved the situation to a dark alley to suit your view too. Anything else you'd like to add to make it more to your liking? And of course you then try to strawman everything by saying I take crimes against women lightly just to further drag us away from the issue.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well plenty of journalists are reporting that she is dead because the Gardai failed to inform the judge that her eventual murderer was already out on bail for violently assaulting a female taxi driver in Cavan. He had just kidnapped and abducted a 5 year old child in Tipperary and Gardai failed to inform the judge that he was already out on bail according to the newspapers. Further to this the Garda in Cavan who dealt with the violent assault in Cavan listed it on Pulse as a minor assault. The female taxi driver was beaten black and blue by him, her hair was pulled out and the perpetrator had his dick out of his pants ready to rape her and the Garda listed it as a minor assault ? It's pretty obvious what happened here, incompetence in Cavan led to incompetence in Tipperary which led to Sylvia Roche Kelly being murdered.
Anyway it's all before the High Court on June 30 so let the judge decide, either way the Gardai are not going to come out of this incident glowing.

I don't care what plenty of journalists are reporting. Much like yourself they likely didn't read the Guerin report or check into bail laws in Ireland. Sure why would they when it's obvious that people will lap up what ever they say as gospel. McGrath was up on serious charges after being caught in the act trying to abduct a kid from their home, he had no home address and had admitted the charge and the judge still gave him bail for a mere €2,200. Do you honestly think the judge would have changed his mind on bail just because he had assaulted someone? It's irrelevant anyway because you can't use it against him in a bail hearing as he is entitled to the presumption of innocence on it. This is all in the Guerin report by the way, from Chapter 6.45 onwards.

I hope they do win the case and I hope they don't settle. It's about time the absurdity of bail laws in Ireland was tackled.

kumate_champ07 · 11-06-2014 02:45AM

I got a call from a private number today, answered it and it was local garda station.

someone was doing a cleanup and found my wallet from a few years ago. at the time I lost it in a taxi, it had my passport and bankcard. turns out they had my number on file anyway from when I was knocked down by a van, but they didnt bother to type my name into the system or even call my bank. had to pay for a new passport, the lost passport is still in date but had been canceled when I got the new one

is there any reason to make a complaint, its not like theyll refund me the passport fee. the taxi man probably dropped in the passport within 48hrs and I didnt order a new one for a while

carzony · 11-06-2014 02:59AM

All I'll say is that Gardai are not respected by the general public now more than ever. I think it's a pity but I also believe that there are **** in the force that deserve that kind of treatment. It's just a pity that hardworking, sound garda seem to always be on the recieving end of it.

The best example I have is that last week one of the soundest guards in my area was in the school showing off the new hyundai and taking pics with some of the kids in the school. When all of a sudden a group of young lads started shouting over calling her a lesbian and a scumbag. To me that just shows a serious lack of respect and fear.

12-06-2014 03:45PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Are you for real? You call that a hijacking?

I call it a group of threatening men using the threat of force (certainly the witness was afraid) to make the driver of the vehicle take it to somewhere they were not intending to go, and refusing to leave the vehicle when asked.

I don't know if a false imprisonment and hi-jacking charge would stick, but I would not condemn a guard who wanted to investigate that. If a bunch of drunk lads walk into my house and refuse to leave what is the charge btw? Or has no offence been committed?

YOU called it "the case where the woman was slapped on the arse in the taxi". Do you stand by that description? You keep telling people to read the report but when I did I discovered it was radically different from your description. You are a liar, a spoofer, a clown and it is absolutely transparent that you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

So in conclusion, I guess you must be a guard.

Little CuChulainn · 12-06-2014 04:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I call it a group of threatening men using the threat of force (certainly the witness was afraid) to make the driver of the vehicle take it to somewhere they were not intending to go, and refusing to leave the vehicle when asked.

I don't know if a false imprisonment and hi-jacking charge would stick, but I would not condemn a guard who wanted to investigate that. If a bunch of drunk lads walk into my house and refuse to leave what is the charge btw? Or has no offence been committed?

You might not condemn a Garda in such a situation but your view is not really relevant. It would be a judge and jury that would condemn them. You're talking about arresting someone for hijacking for not getting out of a taxi. Your false imprisonment and sexual assault charge would go nowhere without a victim statement. At this stage I think you must be just arguing for the sake of it. There's no way you can believe that would be a hijacking.

The charge would be trespassing.

Kaizersoze81 · 12-06-2014 04:40PM

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I got a call from a private number today, answered it and it was local garda station.

someone was doing a cleanup and found my wallet from a few years ago. at the time I lost it in a taxi, it had my passport and bankcard. turns out they had my number on file anyway from when I was knocked down by a van, but they didnt bother to type my name into the system or even call my bank. had to pay for a new passport, the lost passport is still in date but had been canceled when I got the new one

is there any reason to make a complaint, its not like theyll refund me the passport fee. the taxi man probably dropped in the passport within 48hrs and I didnt order a new one for a while

Who lost the wallet again... You ? I've seen it all now. And you want to make a complaint about it? How about taking some personal responsibility.

StinkyMunkey · 12-06-2014 04:51PM

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Who lost the wallet again... You ? I've seen it all now. And you want to make a complaint about it? How about taking some personal responsibility.

Agreed.

People moan and whinge about the Gardi, but at the first sign of trouble, they ring looking for them. No one rings the Gardi because they are having a good time, they are like societies rubbish collectors, they clean up others peoples mess or deal with constant abuse or threat of violence.

I know they are not all saints, but the Gardi are generally only going to have interaction with you if your breaking the law or have been a victim of someone breaking the law.

RustyNut · 12-06-2014 06:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

YOU called it "the case where the woman was slapped on the arse in the taxi". Do you stand by that description? You keep telling people to read the report but when I did I discovered it was radically different from your description. You are a liar, a spoofer, a clown and it is absolutely transparent that you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

So in conclusion, I guess you must be a guard.

You need to put on your blue goggles and read it again.
The report "actually states" that Sargent Mcabe is an excellent Sargent (as linked above) but that obviously means that he is a bad Sargent. You just need to read it properly.

And just for the record I have red it.

Little CuChulainn · 12-06-2014 07:07PM

RustyNut wrote: »

You need to put on your blue goggles and read it again.
The report "actually states" that Sargent Mcabe is an excellent Sargent (as linked above) but that obviously means that he is a bad Sargent. You just need to read it properly.

And just for the record I have red it.

Perhaps you can answer me three simple questions. They are simple yes/no questions.

1) Do you think a sergeant who does not know the law is a good sergeant?

2) Do you think a sergeant who watches probationers do things detrimental to a case instead of assisting them is a good sergeant?

3) Do you think a sergeant who advises gardaí to arrest people for the wrong crimes, risking a civil case, is a good sergeant?

Tail Docker · 12-06-2014 08:19PM

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Who lost the wallet again... You ? I've seen it all now. And you want to make a complaint about it? How about taking some personal responsibility.

How about they bothered following up and making sure it got back to it's owner promptly? Too much to ask? Feck off is it. Try "losing" a form they are looking for off you, see how well they take that little "delay".

sepp_blatter · 12-06-2014 08:39PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Agreed.

People moan and whinge about the Gardi, but at the first sign of trouble, they ring looking for them. No one rings the Gardi because they are having a good time, they are like societies rubbish collectors, they clean up others peoples mess or deal with constant abuse or threat of violence.

I know they are not all saints, but the Gardi are generally only going to have interaction with you if your breaking the law or have been a victim of someone breaking the law.

generally yes but no always , i have a conviction from 2005 ( was struck out once i paid a fine ) for defending myself against an assault on my own property , the guards chose not to hand my medical evidence into court , the guy who punched me has friends high up in the force , now granted my solicitor was hopeless and i was naive and foolishly didnt appeal but the point is , you can be innocent and still find yourself being victimised by police

btw , the same guards arrested me less than three years ago for buying a coke in a shop and left me in a cell for three hours , the same guy who punched me on my own property told them i made a threatening gesture towards him outside the same shop , i didnt even see the guy but CCTV showed we were both in the same shop at the same time , he claimed i did it outside the shop , i was interviewed for an hour and a half about that

i was prepared the second time , had a good solicitor and avoided a stitch up

RustyNut · 12-06-2014 08:42PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Perhaps you can answer me three simple questions. They are simple yes/no questions.

1) Do you think a sergeant who does not know the law is a good sergeant?

2) Do you think a sergeant who watches probationers do things detrimental to a case instead of assisting them is a good sergeant?

3) Do you think a sergeant who advises gardaí to arrest people for the wrong crimes, risking a civil case, is a good sergeant?

I don't see the relevance of answering hypothetical questions, better stick to the facts.

Your colleague stated this.

The report that was released showed him as someone who was not capable of making correct decisions, someone with poor interpersonal skills and someone who was not a very good Sergeant

.

You stated that the report in question was the Guerin report which states the following about Sg Mcabes performance as a member of AGS as assessed by senior members who worked with him over several years.

20.5 It should be recorded here that the Byrne-McGinn report found that:
"No malice on the part of Sergeant McCabe is established in the
making of his various complaints."
20.6 The time I have spent with Sergeant McCabe in the course of extensive
interviews has led me to no different conclusion. That said, the better
view, in any event, is likely to be the testimony of the men and women who
worked with Sergeant McCabe in the years before he made the complaints
that have been examined in this report.
20.7 The Byrne-McGinn investigation received statements from all of the District
Officers who had responsibility for Bailieboro District between 2003 and
2010. Chief Superintendent Gabriel Mclntyre said:
"I found Sergeant McCabe to be very positive and energetic in his
position. He displayed a strong work ethic with a strong emphasis in
community policing and to providing a high standard of policing to
the community."
20.8 Detective Superintendent Eugene Corcoran said:
"I found Sergeant McCabe to be capable and enthusiastic in his
approach to his duties. At all times I found him to be efficient. . . . I
would assess his performance very positively. In my experience he
was hard working and efficient. He understood the need to keep the
District Officer advised of all matters requiring attention at
Superintendent Level. . . . I found him to be very interested in his
work and in ensuring that matters were attended to promptly."
I 20.9 Retired Superintendent Liam Hogan said:
"I considered Sergeant McCabe to be an excellent Sergeant and
member of An Garda Siochana. He offered 200% commitment and was
my one of my most reliable members in the District. I relied on him, I
trusted him implicitly and I listened to his advice. . . . He was full of
enthusiasm with a very positive attitude. I was aware that he worked Chapter 20 Conclusions and Recommendations
hard and long hours displaying absolute loyalty and commitment to
An Garda Siochana, to the management team in the District, to his
colleagues and to the people of Balieboro. He took a particular
interest in the work progress and welfare of junior members in the
District HQ."
20.10 Superintendent M Lernihan said:
"I found [Sergeant McCabe] to be efficient, flexible and committed.
He was diligent in the performance of his duties. He encouraged and
directed those under his supervision and had a good working
relationship with the other Sergeants."

.

Little CuChulainn · 12-06-2014 09:21PM

RustyNut wrote: »

I don't see the relevance of answering hypothetical questions, better stick to the facts.

Your colleague stated this.

.

You stated that the report in question was the Guerin report which states the following about Sg Mcabes performance as a member of AGS as assessed by senior members who worked with him over several years.

I didn't think I'd get a simple answer to a simple question. Someone stated that the report showed him as a bad sergeant. I explained where in the report this showed and you have simply ignored it and resorted to personal remarks and insults. So I'll leave you to your little circle jerk.

micksy for pres · 12-06-2014 09:48PM

I don't think any country truely likes their police force and this is true the world over. When you look at the power abuse and corruption within some police forces in South America I think the guards aren't too bad a bunch

RustyNut · 12-06-2014 10:27PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Someone stated that the report showed him as a bad sergeant. I explained where in the report this showed.

You didn't show anything.
I'm still waiting for a quote that backs up your assertion that he is a bad Sargent etc because having read the entire report I don't believing it is there.

sepp_blatter · 12-06-2014 10:41PM

micksy for pres wrote: »

I don't think any country truely likes their police force and this is true the world over. When you look at the power abuse and corruption within some police forces in South America I think the guards aren't too bad a bunch

well its always a good idea to use poor practice as a yardstick

13-06-2014 09:34AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I didn't think I'd get a simple answer to a simple question. Someone stated that the report showed him as a bad sergeant. I explained where in the report this showed and you have simply ignored it and resorted to personal remarks and insults. So I'll leave you to your little circle jerk.

You keep 'explaining it' by offering us ludicrous simplifications of what is actually in the report as fact. For example "the case where the women got her arse grabbed in a taxi".

You are consistently lying to us. Quote the report. Quote the relevant sections (not hard to do - you pretended it was somehow difficult but I managed it and I am not a professional) and then tell us how you reach your conclusions.

Like I said, until you can you are a spoofer.

13-06-2014 09:43AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Perhaps you can answer me three simple questions. They are simple yes/no questions.

1) Do you think a sergeant who does not know the law is a good sergeant?

2) Do you think a sergeant who watches probationers do things detrimental to a case instead of assisting them is a good sergeant?

3) Do you think a sergeant who advises gardaí to arrest people for the wrong crimes, risking a civil case, is a good sergeant?

These are conclusions that you are drawing that the report does not draw.

In the specific case of the taxi, Guerin concludes that the investigation was poor and that McCabe's complaint was justified.

You are an anonymous internet spoofer.

Guerin is a Senior Counsel given access to all the relevant evidence.

The case rests, your honour.

13-06-2014 09:53AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But because you asked nicely I'll highlight the three specific failings I mentioned.

Suggesting an arrest for hijacking, false imprisonment and sexual assault in a case where a woman was grabbed on the ass - 4.8

Guerin on this case:

"I note that the account of the incident contained in the dossier does not include an allegation of sexual assault, whereas Sergeant McCabe's complaint to Chief Superintendent McGinn did make that allegation. My reading of the statement of Ms Green identifies three separate assaults.

Two of them are reasonably capable of being seen as sexual assaults. The third cannot be confidently categorised without a statement from the person involved, which was never obtained, but the surrounding circumstances are strongly suggestive of sexual assault"

....
"In all the circumstances, I am of the opinion that there is cause for concern as to the adequacy of the investigation of the complaints made by Sergeant McCabe in
relation to this incident and a sufficient basis fo concern as to whether all appropriate steps were taken by AGS to investigate and address the specified complaints"

Does that address your concern about Garda McCabe's failings at all? You know, the fact that a senior counsel in possession of all the evidence agrees with his complaint?

Like I said, spoofer.

Shady Tady · 13-06-2014 10:47AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Guerin on this case:

"I note that the account of the incident contained in the dossier does not include an allegation of sexual assault, whereas Sergeant McCabe's complaint to Chief Superintendent McGinn did make that allegation. My reading of the statement of Ms Green identifies three separate assaults.

Two of them are reasonably capable of being seen as sexual assaults. The third cannot be confidently categorised without a statement from the person involved, which was never obtained, but the surrounding circumstances are strongly suggestive of sexual assault"

....
"In all the circumstances, I am of the opinion that there is cause for concern as to the adequacy of the investigation of the complaints made by Sergeant McCabe in
relation to this incident and a sufficient basis fo concern as to whether all appropriate steps were taken by AGS to investigate and address the specified complaints"

Does that address your concern about Garda McCabe's failings at all? You know, the fact that a senior counsel in possession of all the evidence agrees with his complaint?

Like I said, spoofer.

I'm sure another senior counsel would give a different opinion if he was paid!

How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

Comments