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Moving To/Living In London Megathread - ALL QUESTIONS TO GO HERE

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    Yeah, and most of them can jump on a bus/train...easier than booking flights and changing country. I would have thought it was pretty obvious that having a foreign address on your CV would make it harder to get a job in any country. It's not 2006 - most jobs attract hundreds of qualified candidates. Why give them an easy reason not to consider you?

    It depends on the job. For many roles showing you've international experience and a willing to grow yourself is far stronger than someone from Abbingdon or Didcot looking for a job within commuting distance from their Mammy.
    My first job in UK came from a recruiter calling me 30 minutes after me applying for a job on-line, arranging an interview within 1 week and signing a few days later. having an address outside the UK made no (negative) impact on that!

    And lastly on your highlighted point - why lie?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    enda1 wrote: »
    It depends on the job. For many roles showing you've international experience and a willing to grow yourself is far stronger than someone from Abbingdon or Didcot looking for a job within commuting distance from their Mammy.
    My first job in UK came from a recruiter calling me 30 minutes after me applying for a job on-line, arranging an interview within 1 week and signing a few days later. having an address outside the UK made no (negative) impact on that!

    And lastly on your highlighted point - why lie?

    When was that?

    Your reasoning seems a bit silly to me, tbh. I'm not sure many employers would discriminate against someone for being local or make assumptions about being within commuting distance from their Mammy. :confused:

    If you have a standout CV and bags more experience than any other candidate, then yes, they may well call you for interview anyway. If (more likely) you're on a par with other candidates, I highly doubt a foreign address on your CV, showing you're not actually in the country, would do anything but hinder your chances. I've had three interviews in the last week and every one of them has been extremely short notice. As I'm in the London area, I just had to hop on a train, but I doubt I'd have been able to get flights at that short notice. They may well not have even invited me to interview because it would have been too much hassle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    When was that?

    Your reasoning seems a bit silly to me, tbh. I'm not sure many employers would discriminate against someone for being local or make assumptions about being within commuting distance from their Mammy. :confused:

    If you have a standout CV and bags more experience than any other candidate, then yes, they may well call you for interview anyway. If (more likely) you're on a par with other candidates, I highly doubt a foreign address on your CV, showing you're not actually in the country, would do anything but hinder your chances. I've had three interviews in the last week and every one of them has been extremely short notice. As I'm in the London area, I just had to hop on a train, but I doubt I'd have been able to get flights at that short notice. They may well not have even invited me to interview because it would have been too much hassle.

    August 2011.

    My first job as a graduate you would not even have been considered had you not spent a reasonable amount of time living/working/studying outside your native country. That particularly was disadvantageous to the locals but they were the requirements. Lot's of places want a global multicultural workforce, especially in a HQ.

    I'm not sure why you're trying to convince people to lie on their CV though :S

    Surely honesty is the best option? It'll be found out in the end anyway. When this recruiter rings you up and you're in Dublin when you've said you're in Camberwell, what happens when he asks you to meet for a coffee that evening after work for a chat over your CV? Seems foolish to me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    enda1 wrote: »
    August 2011.

    My first job as a graduate you would not even have been considered had you not spent a reasonable amount of time living/working/studying outside your native country. That particularly was disadvantageous to the locals but they were the requirements. Lot's of places want a global multicultural workforce, especially in a HQ.

    I'm not sure why you're trying to convince people to lie on their CV though :S

    Surely honesty is the best option? It'll be found out in the end anyway. When this recruiter rings you up and you're in Dublin when you've said you're in Camberwell, what happens when he asks you to meet for a coffee that evening after work for a chat over your CV? Seems foolish to me.

    It's hardly crime of the century if you put a mate's address down, especially if you'll likely be staying there for the first few days in London anyway. If the recruiter rings you up and asks to meet the same day, just say you can't make it, but is tomorrow OK?

    :confused:

    In my experience, no, honesty is often not the best policy when it comes to stuff like this. I don't mean lie about your qualifications etc., but give the recruiter the impression you're already in the UK? Sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    It's hardly crime of the century if you put a mate's address down, especially if you'll likely be staying there for the first few days in London anyway. If the recruiter rings you up and asks to meet the same day, just say you can't make it, but is tomorrow OK?

    :confused:

    In my experience, no, honesty is often not the best policy when it comes to stuff like this. I don't mean lie about your qualifications etc., but give the recruiter the impression you're already in the UK? Sure.

    Seems a bizarre choice to me to lie on your cv. but there you go, folks be different. Like I said however, I couldn't have had the career I have had I not lived in multiple countries, it was a requirement for my first place and a definite benefit in those since. Probably wouldn't matter for some other jobs but that's why I said "it depends".

    Best of luck seachto7 on the job hunt, but I'd look first at the cv and experience before considering a country preference was anything to do with the rejections. If you'd like I could give you cv help by pm or just simple feedback.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    enda1 wrote: »
    Seems a bizarre choice to me to lie on your cv. but there you go, folks be different. Like I said however, I couldn't have had the career I have had I not lived in multiple countries, it was a requirement for my first place and a definite benefit in those since. Probably wouldn't matter for some other jobs but that's why I said "it depends".

    Best of luck seachto7 on the job hunt, but I'd look first at the cv and experience before considering a country preference was anything to do with the rejections. If you'd like I could give you cv help by pm or just simple feedback.

    It sounds like your job requirements were pretty different to most people's. I work in a company where everyone has international experience, but I can tell you now that if we got 10 comparable CVs in, a foreign address showing a person is not even living in the UK right now would be a serious disadvantage. How can you be sure they're even serious about moving over?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    It sounds like your job requirements were pretty different to most people's. I work in a company where everyone has international experience, but I can tell you now that if we got 10 comparable CVs in, a foreign address showing a person is not even living in the UK right now would be a serious disadvantage. How can you be sure they're even serious about moving over?

    Because they've applied...?

    Is that a trick question??


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    I would have thought it was pretty obvious that having a foreign address on your CV would make it harder to get a job in any country.
    As enda1 has been saying, that really depends on the job. If you’re applying for a job in a corner shop, sure. But, for example, most of the people I work with are non-British, so it really wouldn’t make much of a difference here.

    I think an employer who eliminates everyone outside the UK from their recruitment process is not likely to be running a terribly successful business.
    Olive8585 wrote: »
    …most jobs attract hundreds of qualified candidates.
    I really, really doubt that.
    Olive8585 wrote: »
    I've had three interviews in the last week and every one of them has been extremely short notice.
    What’s “extremely short”? Because, generally speaking, it’s unreasonable to expect someone to adequately prepare for an interview in an “extremely short” period of time, regardless of where they’re based.
    Olive8585 wrote: »
    If the recruiter rings you up and asks to meet the same day, just say you can't make it, but is tomorrow OK?
    And it’s going to cost you how much to book a flight at such short notice, just for a coffee?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    enda1 wrote: »
    Because they've applied...?

    Is that a trick question??

    Oh dear. You don't work in hiring, do you?

    I do. And you wouldn't believe the number of timewasters I encounter. Plenty of people just sending out feelers to see if they would get offers IF they ever moved over. Stuff like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    Oh dear. You don't work in hiring, do you?

    I do. And you wouldn't believe the number of timewasters I encounter. Plenty of people just sending out feelers to see if they would get offers IF they ever moved over. Stuff like that.

    No I don't work in recruitment.
    There are multiple open positions in the company I work in. There are as far as I know from colleagues who handle the cvs never speculative applications. You're never gonna get an offer without an interview anyway. I can't quite comprehend the point you're making. If they come for an interview they're clearly willing to relocate. There's the same issue for any English/Welsh/Scottish person, if they come for the interview they're clearly willing to relocate.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    enda1 wrote: »
    No I don't work in recruitment.
    There are multiple open positions in the company I work in. There are as far as I know from colleagues who handle the cvs never speculative applications. You're never gonna get an offer without an interview anyway. I can't quite comprehend the point you're making. If they come for an interview they're clearly willing to relocate. There's the same issue for any English/Welsh/Scottish person, if they come for the interview they're clearly willing to relocate.

    What's so hard to get?

    I don't want to waste my time looking over someone's CV, carefully considering how suitable they'd be for the position, e-mailing or calling them only for them to tell me they're actually still based in Ballybackarseendofnowhere and are 'thinking' about moving to London 'soon'.

    Do you realise how often this happens?

    Could you understand why recruiters and employers might have a strong preference for people who are already here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    I would agree with Olive here. we had a job advertised a while back and we got CVs from all over the place. the first person the job was given to gave up after a while because she couldn't hack the hour long commute, that's even with feck all jobs about too.
    so the next time, there was a cull straight away in preference for local people (within 45 mins). although the guy that picked his nose all the way through the interview wasn't considered either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Here's another thing I was thinking about. I could put down a mates address in London for example. I could put down an Irish number and if they ring me I could say I was in Ireland for the summer or for a few weeks. (I'm not sure!)

    What if they assumed: "Ok, he's got a UK address", they ring me up, I say I am In Ireland with family, but can come over for the interview, I head over, do the interview, get the job, and it then transpires I have no national insurance number.

    If I have an address in the UK, would that mean I'd *have* to have a national insurance number?

    They would then know I bullsh*ted them with the address....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    What's so hard to get?

    I don't want to waste my time looking over someone's CV, carefully considering how suitable they'd be for the position, e-mailing or calling them only for them to tell me they're actually still based in Ballybackarseendofnowhere and are 'thinking' about moving to London 'soon'.

    Do you realise how often this happens?

    Could you understand why recruiters and employers might have a strong preference for people who are already here?

    A year or so ago, I applied for some jobs in London (online marketing), and got a few calls within a day or so of applying. I did phone interviews first, then I headed over for one interview. I was in the centre of London, and they were still unsure of me! "I get the impression you just want to move over to London more than anything else. Do you really want to come here?" Well, I came over for the interview didn't I!

    They were right! I didn't really want the job, but at the time, I did want to move to London.

    Now I've been back to college for a year, I do *really* want to get out of dodge. I was a mature student going back, so won't be dicking around if I make the effort to go across the water.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    enda1 wrote: »
    Seems a bizarre choice to me to lie on your cv. but there you go, folks be different. Like I said however, I couldn't have had the career I have had I not lived in multiple countries, it was a requirement for my first place and a definite benefit in those since. Probably wouldn't matter for some other jobs but that's why I said "it depends".

    Best of luck seachto7 on the job hunt, but I'd look first at the cv and experience before considering a country preference was anything to do with the rejections. If you'd like I could give you cv help by pm or just simple feedback.

    If you could do that, it would be great.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Here's another thing I was thinking about. I could put down a mates address in London for example. I could put down an Irish number and if they ring me I could say I was in Ireland for the summer or for a few weeks. (I'm not sure!)

    What if they assumed: "Ok, he's got a UK address", they ring me up, I say I am In Ireland with family, but can come over for the interview, I head over, do the interview, get the job, and it then transpires I have no national insurance number.

    If I have an address in the UK, would that mean I'd *have* to have a national insurance number?

    They would then know I bullsh*ted them with the address....

    Why wouldn't you just get a UK SIM? :confused:

    No, you don't need a national insurance number to have a UK address. You can always say you haven't been over long just haven't applied yet because you were getting settled.
    seachto7 wrote: »
    A year or so ago, I applied for some jobs in London (online marketing), and got a few calls within a day or so of applying. I did phone interviews first, then I headed over for one interview. I was in the centre of London, and they were still unsure of me! "I get the impression you just want to move over to London more than anything else. Do you really want to come here?" Well, I came over for the interview didn't I!

    They were right! I didn't really want the job, but at the time, I did want to move to London.

    Now I've been back to college for a year, I do *really* want to get out of dodge. I was a mature student going back, so won't be dicking around if I make the effort to go across the water.

    Exactly, they were right. Point made. So many people timewasting because they want to see if they'd get jobs in London if they applied, or they just want to get any old job in London and will jack it in when they find what they really want, or have no idea what London is actually like and end up going home after 2 weeks when they realise how expensive/crowded/whatever it is.

    This is all exactly why a UK address is preferable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    so the next time, there was a cull straight away in preference for local people (within 45 mins).
    But that's going to severely limit your options. That might be ok for some positions, but it won't be for most.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Olive8585 wrote: »

    Exactly, they were right. Point made. So many people timewasting because they want to see if they'd get jobs in London if they applied, or they just want to get any old job in London and will jack it in when they find what they really want, or have no idea what London is actually like and end up going home after 2 weeks when they realise how expensive/crowded/whatever it is.

    This is all exactly why a UK address is preferable.

    Well, I paid for flights and accommodation to go over for an interview. I wouldn't have put that down as tyre kicking. It would be a waste of money! I did want to go over, I suppose I just didn't make the effort in the interview I should have.
    This time around, it's a different story. Hopefully I can convince them this time around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭RiseToMe


    I have to disagree about the address, having an Irish address is more than okay. I applied for and got a job in London with my address plastered all over my application. Skype interview followed by them paying for my flights to London for a day of various interviews.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    djpbarry wrote: »
    But that's going to severely limit your options. That might be ok for some positions, but it won't be for most.

    true, but when you're outside the m25, being local is more important. while there are decent transport links, missing one train would mean being 30 mins late as opposed to a few minutes with the underground.


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  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    I didn't have too much of a problem applying from Dublin - but I was looking for something so I could move in with my OH over here, so I put both my Dublin address and his London address on my CV and explained the situation when asked. I did most of the recruitment processes online - technical tests, small coding projects etc, and Skype/phone interviews before a face to face interview. I left Dublin with 2 job offers in hand 2 months after I started looking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    My input from both a candidate and an employer in the last 2 years in London for a major international finance company is to get a uk address and a uk payg sim. I get a ridiculous amount of CVs for every job I have put out there and I f there are two equal candidates in every way, preference will go to the UK based one for further interviews, as I know they will be able to come in to the office to meet me when I ask them to, and not when there is the next affordable flight. There are a lot of people out there looking for work....you have to make sure that there is nothing, no matter how small, that will place you at a disadvantage


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    ...I f there are two equal candidates in every way, preference will go to the UK based one for further interviews, as I know they will be able to come in to the office to meet me when I ask them to, and not when there is the next affordable flight.
    Assuming that they're actually in the UK, of course, within a reasonable distance of London.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Assuming that they're actually in the UK, of course, within a reasonable distance of London.

    If you're serious about jobhunting and moving over, then you'll go over for the interview when you're asked to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    If you're serious about jobhunting and moving over, then you'll go over for the interview when you're asked to.

    Sure....but my point is that it is a tiny thing, and we are dealing with small margins in a competitive market. So why would you not minimize any complications that the recruiter might perceive. Anyway, getting off topic, so I'll leave it there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    If you're serious about jobhunting and moving over, then you'll go over for the interview when you're asked to.
    Indeed - so what difference does it make whether you say live in Dublin, Manchester, Glasgow or London? At the end of the day, the recruiter has no idea whether the candidate is being truthful.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Indeed - so what difference does it make whether you say live in Dublin, Manchester, Glasgow or London? At the end of the day, the recruiter has no idea whether the candidate is being truthful.

    Are you really asking me this?

    The recruiter can only assume that the candidate is being truthful. Imagine you have someone like me who is sick of flaky people living abroad applying for jobs they really have no intention of taking up anytime soon.

    Let's say

    London address=interview
    Irish address=no interview

    Imagine you really live in Ireland but have put down a UK address. You get invited for interview, you say 'grand no problem' and you book a flight. Where's the problem here? Ryanair flights are generally reasonable at any time. The interviewer doesn't know whether you've flown over or whether you live down the road. If you are serious about the job, then you'll fly over asap. If you're going to wait until it's totally convenient for you, then you're not that bothered, are you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    The recruiter can only assume that the candidate is being truthful.
    But you're suggesting people should lie.
    Olive8585 wrote: »
    Imagine you really live in Ireland but have put down a UK address. You get invited for interview, you say 'grand no problem' and you book a flight.
    Or, you say, "nah, I'm not really moving to London just yet. I just wanted to get an idea of how easy it would be to get an interview."
    Olive8585 wrote: »
    The interviewer doesn't know whether you've flown over or whether you live down the road.
    But you're claiming it's imperative that people put a UK address on their CV? If the recruiter has no idea one way or another where you live, then what difference does it make? You're completely undermining your own argument here.
    Olive8585 wrote: »
    If you are serious about the job, then you'll fly over asap. If you're going to wait until it's totally convenient for you, then you're not that bothered, are you?
    There's absolutely no way I'd be flying back and forth between the UK and Ireland for interviews at short notice unless the interviewers were paying for the flights - I don't know about you, but I don't have that kind of money to throw around.

    You seem completely unprepared to accept that many employers are perfectly happy to consider overseas candidates, conduct telephone interviews, etc., before inviting a candidates to interview.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Folks, can we put this immensely tedious aspect of the conversation to rest by agreeing that some companies will discriminate based on the address stated on the candidate CV, while others won't? And that the likelihood of this discrimination being in effect will vary substantially depending on field, employer, role, person doing the application shortlisting, and quite possibly the phases of the moon? (Please note, I'm saying this not as a mod, but as a poster who'd quite like to not feel boredom pushing his brains out of his ears in a grey trickle of dismay when reading this thread....there's been some useful advice and variety of perspectives offered so far, but we're fast approaching "Yes it is"/"No it isn't" territory by my reckoning.)

    I will say that whichever way you're inclined to go, it's worth considering what you put down when applying for a job. For instance, I knew a guy in college who falsely claimed to have been the captain of the college soccer and basketball teams (and that this demonstrated his leadership skills, etc). It never got in the way of him landing jobs, despite being an easily disproven lie. But personally I wouldn't want to give an employer such an easy reason to get rid of me (on the basis that most contracts would feature a clause whereby lying to the employer = gross misconduct). I knew another person who, when applying for a job, gave an inflated number for her current salary to the prospective new employer, and was turned down for the job despite being told she was the best candidate because the new employer found out that she'd lied about her salary and wasn't able to trust her. (The trick here is to not reveal what salary you earn but what salary you're looking for, presumably...)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭A Greedy Algorithm


    Can i just ask a few questions?

    1. Do people find in 'hard' or 'tough' to live in London? With the large population, being so busy etc.

    2. Is the tube always really, really hot and uncomfortable?

    3. Would it possible to walk across London (North to South) in 1 day?


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