Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

aperture_nuig · 10-06-2014 01:35PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You think that's bad? I got England. :pac:

I got Columbia & Cameroon :pac:

MagicIRL · 10-06-2014 01:37PM

We're paying out for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and worst overall. No money for me! :pac:

bucketybuck · 10-06-2014 01:39PM

bangkok wrote: »

and this crack of fergie let pogba go, it was ferguson who wanted him to sign the 30k contract on offer but he wanted a lot more money and Juve were giving him a 2m signing on fee. any time pogba did start a game as well he was often very poor. remember he started a league cup game against leeds and was awful, taken off after 60m. it was game like that he was meant to shine in,

Strange how history gets changed. Pogba didn't start that Leeds game, he came on at half-time.

"Any time Pogba started he was poor". And how many times did he start a game exactly? Most of his 7 appearances were as a late substitute, did he even start a game?

Fergie cannot duck responsibility for this one, all he had to do was give the lad his chance, give him a few games and we could have saved ourselves a lot of pain. Instead he decided to play games and we lost perhaps the best prospect in world football. Ironic then that Fergie was previously quoted as saying:

Ahead of the start of the 2011–12 season, Ferguson confirmed that Pogba would feature with the senior team during the season, stating: "I mean if we hold Pogba back, what's going to happen? He's going to leave. You know, in a couple of years' time when his contract is going to finish. So we have to give him the opportunity to see how he can do in the first-team and he's got great ability"

People think we mention Pogba too much. Personally I think he should have his face on the wall at Carrington, simply to remind us and ensure we don't make such a **** up ever again.

Adamcp898 · 10-06-2014 01:42PM

I got Greece

IvySlayer · 10-06-2014 01:45PM

I got Chile

keane2097 · 10-06-2014 01:48PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Bled in Ronaldo. Grand. Presumably it would have been possible to **** that one up but might have taken a fair bit.

Rooney was stifled by Ferguson for a lot of his career. Another example of a player being routinely played out of position, has had most of his success despite Ferguson rather than because of him.

Smalling and Jones are on the cusp of being ruined mainly due to being played out of position IMO.

Rafael hasn't improved notably in five years, still makes the same mistakes he did as a youngster albeit he's a decent player.

De Gea laughably mismanaged by Ferguson early on, him being dropped for Lindegaard was a joke.

Not convinced really.

This, by the way, is only making a start on the few players you could make a vague argument about being successes of Ferguson's latter day youth "development", without even beginning to look at the many disasters.

10-06-2014 01:49PM

Letting Rossi go was as bad as Pogba at the time, had an OK centre midfield for the job at that time and after stupidly letting Forlan and imo stupidly letting RvN go he would have flourished at the club in that period I think given the chance. All those players went for a pittance compared to what they were worth and would have been successes given consistent runs in the team.

10-06-2014 01:58PM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I got Greece

Try Croatia and Greece.....sigh

Trigger · 10-06-2014 01:58PM

I got England in work and on here! :pac:

keane2097 · 10-06-2014 01:59PM

bangkok wrote: »

what a pile of crap, he developed loads of players and turned Ronaldo into one of the best players to ever play the game.

and this crack of fergie let pogba go, it was ferguson who wanted him to sign the 30k contract on offer but he wanted a lot more money and Juve were giving him a 2m signing on fee. any time pogba did start a game as well he was often very poor. remember he started a league cup game against leeds and was awful, taken off after 60m. it was game like that he was meant to shine in, maybe if he stayed another year he could have been a lot better but it was POGBA who chose to leave, nothing fergie or united could have done as his contact was up

Winston Payne · 10-06-2014 02:00PM

Liam O wrote: »

Letting Rossi go was as bad as Pogba at the time, had an OK centre midfield for the job at that time and after stupidly letting Forlan and imo stupidly letting RvN go he would have flourished at the club in that period I think given the chance. All those players went for a pittance compared to what they were worth and would have been successes given consistent runs in the team.

van Nistelrooy had peaked. The knee injury he got in 04/05 slowed him and the team was moving on from that style of play anyway. Saha was better at the time than Rossi and then Tevez came the season after. We became the best team in Europe. It's impossible to successfully develop each and every one of your players, there are going to be failures through mistakes of coaching or players not getting the time because of the alternatives. Rossi wasn't going to improve the team by going into it in 05/06. Or the season after. Or the season after. So you're looking at 08/09 as the earliest stage that he could have been a first-teamer, or competing for a place if we hadn't bought Berbatov. Of course, this is all presuming that he'd be happy to go out on loan for that length of time and developed well, or as well as he did, then came back and wanted a first-team place with us. Rossi wasn't a mistake. Neither was Pique, while we're here, for much the same reasons.

Crimson King · 10-06-2014 02:01PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You think that's bad? I got England. :pac:

Sitting here feeling smug because I drew Iran

bangkok · 10-06-2014 02:11PM

fergie was one of the best managers in the game at developing young players... just look at the amount of players he brought through from youth team to first team in his career. its easy to say "oh look we let a rossi or a pogba go" but that's the way football works you cant get it right all the time. rossi was never suited to prem league anyway. sure arsenal had yaya toure on trial and didn't take him and wanted to take ibrahimovic on trial but he didn't want a trial!!

Robson99 · 10-06-2014 02:15PM

bangkok wrote: »

what a pile of crap, he developed loads of players and turned Ronaldo into one of the best players to ever play the game.

and this crack of fergie let pogba go, it was ferguson who wanted him to sign the 30k contract on offer but he wanted a lot more money and Juve were giving him a 2m signing on fee. any time pogba did start a game as well he was often very poor. remember he started a league cup game against leeds and was awful, taken off after 60m. it was game like that he was meant to shine in, maybe if he stayed another year he could have been a lot better but it was POGBA who chose to leave, nothing fergie or united could have done as his contact was up

No this is a pile of crap. Get your facts right before you knock others

homerjay2005 · 10-06-2014 02:18PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Ferguson was crap at managing young players in a lot of the second half of his career. He sent loads of very talented players out on lolbad loans where they didn't get a kick, and his version of "development" for those that stayed at United was to never play them even when it meant playing senior player bizarrely out of position instead, or if he did play them make it in a position they're not comfortable in as often as possible.

Rafael playing CM, Scholes coming out of retirement etc., if I was a kid as talented as Pogba conversations with my agent would have been along the lines of "this old **** hasn't a clue, get me out of here and I'll be top 5 in Europe this time next year".

totally agree with this....i think we lived off the class of 92 for years and our focus on youth, while good was a bit of a myth as time went on.

bangkok · 10-06-2014 02:31PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

totally agree with this....i think we lived off the class of 92 for years and our focus on youth, while good was a bit of a myth as time went on.

but it was fergie who gave all those players the chance. how many young players has for example Mourinho given a chance to?? fergie put his kneck on the line with all those players and they repaid him.

after the class of 92 he gave loads of players the opportunity for a first team place...

Wes brown
john o shea
Darren fletcher
danny welbeck
Rafael
Fabio
johnny evans
tom cleverly
rossi
macheda

probably way more but off the top of my head that's what I can think of

Cantona's Collars · 10-06-2014 02:34PM

Chill out with this quiz,I got 7/10 - I got the 3 'easiest' ones wrong.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-quiz-80s-7245783

Mitch Connor · 10-06-2014 02:35PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

totally agree with this....i think we lived off the class of 92 for years and our focus on youth, while good was a bit of a myth as time went on.

we are still producing 'good' players at a rate to rival any club. I think United has the most graduates playing professionally out of all clubs (or we are second/third) - but we have been poorly at 'creating' top class at our academy or developing young signings for years upon years.

Look at Anderson at Porto, or Gremio (?) - and look at what we turned him in to, a combative (hah) box to box midfielder who looks brilliant for a couple of games then rubbish. The progress of Smalling and Jones has been poor, extremely poor and I think we have dropped the ball with both of them (as opposed to them not having the talent). Welbeck is another who has developed poorly, and I would say Cleverley is too. Welbeck had/has similar potential to Sturridge, and Cleveley to Henderson, imo - both the Liverpool players are miles ahead now, and I put that down to a lack of coaching and development at United.

Honestly, I reckon LVG could be BRILLIANT for Welbeck and Janzaj - while Jones, Smalling and Cleverley could also benefit. None are bad players, all can be a lot better than they have been for United, imo.

NoviGlitzko · 10-06-2014 02:40PM

zerks wrote: »

Chill out with this quiz,I got 7/10 - I got the 3 'easiest' ones wrong.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-quiz-80s-7245783

2/10. Luck wasn't on my side with the guesses. Don't know anything about United in the 80's.

bangkok · 10-06-2014 02:40PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

we are still producing 'good' players at a rate to rival any club. I think United has the most graduates playing professionally out of all clubs (or we are second/third) - but we have been poorly at 'creating' top class at our academy or developing young signings for years upon years.

Look at Anderson at Porto, or Gremio (?) - and look at what we turned him in to, a combative (hah) box to box midfielder who looks brilliant for a couple of games then rubbish. The progress of Smalling and Jones has been poor, extremely poor and I think we have dropped the ball with both of them (as opposed to them not having the talent). Welbeck is another who has developed poorly, and I would say Cleverley is too. Welbeck had/has similar potential to Sturridge, and Cleveley to Henderson, imo - both the Liverpool players are miles ahead now, and I put that down to a lack of coaching and development at United.

Honestly, I reckon LVG could be BRILLIANT for Welbeck and Janzaj - while Jones, Smalling and Cleverley could also benefit. None are bad players, all can be a lot better than they have been for United, imo.

how has welbeck "developed poorly" exactly?? 23 years of age, 23 England caps and about to play in his 2nd international football tournament and looks to be getting better every year.......

Backstreet Moyes · 10-06-2014 02:41PM

The problem is Jones and Smalling should have been ready to replace Ferdinand and Vidic. Instead they have spent the last few seasons playing every second or third game and when played mostly out of position. Both were handled very poorly by Fergie. Both players are not much more developed then when they signed years ago.

Maximus Alexander · 10-06-2014 02:43PM

I was a maximum age of 4 years and 2 months old in the 80s, which does not bode well for my score on that quiz.

homerjay2005 · 10-06-2014 02:44PM

bangkok wrote: »

but it was fergie who gave all those players the chance. how many young players has for example Mourinho given a chance to?? fergie put his kneck on the line with all those players and they repaid him.

after the class of 92 he gave loads of players the opportunity for a first team place...

Wes brown
john o shea
Darren fletcher
danny welbeck
Rafael
Fabio
johnny evans
tom cleverly
rossi
macheda

probably way more but off the top of my head that's what I can think of

thats not a spectacular list from the last 23 years, especially considering macheda, rossi and fabio started f*ck all games between them.

the amount of critism the other players have gotten in the early years of their careers is quite high also, especially Cleverly and Fletcher.

homerjay2005 · 10-06-2014 02:47PM

zerks wrote: »

Chill out with this quiz,I got 7/10 - I got the 3 'easiest' ones wrong.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-quiz-80s-7245783

i got the last one wrong

Backstreet Moyes · 10-06-2014 02:47PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Welbeck is another who has developed poorly, and I would say Cleverley is too. Welbeck had/has similar potential to Sturridge, and Cleveley to Henderson, imo - both the Liverpool players are miles ahead now, and I put that down to a lack of coaching and development at United.

That has nothing to do with coaching it has to do with getting first team football. If Sturridge was at United he would be the same under developed because of being behind Rooney and RVP. Wellbeck should leave the club to better himself because he won't fulfill his potential at United.

On Cleverley i don't think he ever had the potential of Henderson. I actually never got the hype. When with Wigan he was outshined by McCarthy. With United bar 5 or 6 games beside Anderson a few years ago he has never looked like anything like a United player.

10-06-2014 02:55PM

Winston Payne wrote: »

van Nistelrooy had peaked. The knee injury he got in 04/05 slowed him and the team was moving on from that style of play anyway. Saha was better at the time than Rossi and then Tevez came the season after. We became the best team in Europe. It's impossible to successfully develop each and every one of your players, there are going to be failures through mistakes of coaching or players not getting the time because of the alternatives. Rossi wasn't going to improve the team by going into it in 05/06. Or the season after. Or the season after. So you're looking at 08/09 as the earliest stage that he could have been a first-teamer, or competing for a place if we hadn't bought Berbatov. Of course, this is all presuming that he'd be happy to go out on loan for that length of time and developed well, or as well as he did, then came back and wanted a first-team place with us. Rossi wasn't a mistake. Neither was Pique, while we're here, for much the same reasons.

The team greatly lacked a finisher in a lot of games around that time. The fact that Berbatov was bought when Rossi or Forlan would have been much better suited to the system is enough to show that selling them was a mistake imo.

bangkok · 10-06-2014 02:57PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thats not a spectacular list from the last 23 years, especially considering macheda, rossi and fabio started f*ck all games between them.

the amount of critism the other players have gotten in the early years of their careers is quite high also, especially Cleverly and Fletcher.

sorry you can add to the januzaj if you like as fergie would have played him if he was there, nearly 1 player a season is being developed, that is excellent in fairness, then you have players that never made the grade at united and went on to build good careers at other clubs....shawcross, bardsley, bruce, Richardson, mcshane

Crimson King · 10-06-2014 02:59PM

Just looking there, Pogba only signed a 4 year contract when signing for Juve. It's probably the reason they are willing to at least entertain bids as his salary is only £10K a week so surely he has been offered higher wages on a longer term contract. That would have happened after season one I am sure and the fact he is still on the original contract surely means he refused to sign (all conjecture of course). so Juve have three choices:

1. Pay him the salary on a par that his supposed £60M value entails
2. Let him wind down his contract whilst getting value by his contributions on the pitch whilst seeing his market value dwindle or
3. Sell him now and maximize their profit

Also giving his agents form, Juve probably got wind of the agent talking to other clubs. Fergie did claim this happened at United so maybe for once he was telling the truth about the player and not just spinning to make United look better.

Just realised I have too much time on my hands today

bangkok · 10-06-2014 03:00PM

Liam O wrote: »

The team greatly lacked a finisher in a lot of games around that time. The fact that Berbatov was bought when Rossi or Forlan would have been much better suited to the system is enough to show that selling them was a mistake imo.

how was rossi suited to the system? he went on loan to Newcastle and couldn't even score a goal in about 10-15 games with them so was clearly not suited to the rough and tumble of the prem league. he wasn't just going to walk onto the united team in fairness

Robson99 · 10-06-2014 03:00PM

bangkok wrote: »

sorry you can add to the januzaj if you like as fergie would have played him if he was there, nearly 1 player a season is being developed, that is excellent in fairness, then you have players that never made the grade at united and went on to build good careers at other clubs....shawcross, bardsley, bruce, Richardson, mcshane

Pique?? a F**K up or never made the grade???

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

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