Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

glued · 10-06-2014 11:44AM

Kroos is good and would be a serious upgrade on our current crop. He's not on or near the same level as Scholes was but he's a good player. Not sure why he'd come to Manchester United after the season we had. I think people are being very unrealistic in their transfer expectations this Summer.

If you're a Toni Kroos, Arturo Vidal, Paul Pogba then why would you join a club that finished 7th in the Premier League and have no Champions League to offer? These guys aren't going to want to come in to play alongside Tom Cleverley, Darren Fletcher or Michael Carrick either. The only advantage we have is probably offering more money at this stage.

I'll wait until the end of the Summer to review the transfer window but if we manage to sign a Vidal or Pogba then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Pro. F · 10-06-2014 11:45AM

TheTownie wrote: »

Sounds more like something an agent would use against the buying club to get his client higher wages.

From a selling clubs POV theres no correlation. Good example is Carvalho. Buy-out clause of 37M and on wages of 3.5K/week with talk of it being bumped to 7K/week the lucky duck.

Of course if Utd were to sign Carvalho he get a massive jump in wages alright but I think thats just the agent using circumstances to his advantage.

The buy-out clause doesn't mean anything. It is not a reflection of what the player will be sold for.

TheTownie · 10-06-2014 11:54AM

Pro. F wrote: »

The buy-out clause doesn't mean anything. It is not a reflection of what the player will be sold for.

I agree but if Utd were to sign him he would cost a large amount.

Backstreet Moyes · 10-06-2014 11:56AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes...if we could only sign one player this summer, it would be him. the man is incredible and the perfect player for us. we struggled to replace Schmeichel, keane and co for long times, Scholes replacement is there and apparently available.

of course, as has been pointed out many times he could be using us for a new contract but if he does go somewhere else, ill be sickened.

Bar United kidnapping Kroos then he would choose Madrid everyday of the week and rightly so.

bangkok · 10-06-2014 11:59AM

glued wrote: »

Kroos is good and would be a serious upgrade on our current crop. He's not on or near the same level as Scholes was but he's a good player. Not sure why he'd come to Manchester United after the season we had. I think people are being very unrealistic in their transfer expectations this Summer.

If you're a Toni Kroos, Arturo Vidal, Paul Pogba then why would you join a club that finished 7th in the Premier League and have no Champions League to offer? These guys aren't going to want to come in to play alongside Tom Cleverley, Darren Fletcher or Michael Carrick either. The only advantage we have is probably offering more money at this stage.

I'll wait until the end of the Summer to review the transfer window but if we manage to sign a Vidal or Pogba then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

if your a toni kroos or a pogba etc you prob grew up in awe of Manchester united and pogba was at united before so might jump at the chance to go back. We have one of the best stadiums in the world, sold out every week in the biggest league in the world that also pays the highest wages, why would you not want to join. I think that toni kroos brother said the whole family supported united. We are one of the biggest sporting teams in the world and next season is the beginning of a new "project".

Backstreet Moyes · 10-06-2014 12:01PM

Personally i would not want Pogba back at the club. The sickening feeling of paying 30+ million for a player you left leave on a free a few years ago would annoy me too much.

homerjay2005 · 10-06-2014 12:04PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Bar United kidnapping Kroos then he would choose Madrid everyday of the week and rightly so.

that would be the case for most, but not all players. if the general consensus in the reliable press was/is that United had a deal agreed for Kroos, then i am happy to accept this.

Al Capwned · 10-06-2014 12:04PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Personally i would not want Pogba back at the club. The sickening feeling of paying 30+ million for a player you left leave on a free a few years ago would annoy me too much.

But it would definitely be offset by seeing a genuinely good central midfielder every week.
I'd have him back in a heartbeat if the deal could be done.

Robson99 · 10-06-2014 12:07PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Personally i would not want Pogba back at the club. The sickening feeling of paying 30+ million for a player you left leave on a free a few years ago would annoy me too much.

Wasnt Pogbas fault. Fergie ****ed up bigtime

Mitch Connor · 10-06-2014 12:11PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Wasnt Pogbas fault. Fergie ****ed up bigtime

I don't think anyone was blameless, especially Pogba and his agent. But I would agree Fergie has to shoulder some of the blame for the poor way his playing time was handled.

onemorechance · 10-06-2014 12:22PM

The original source for the Shaw 160k deal seems to be Wayne Veysey of Goal, and it's only the other least reliable sources that are picking up on it, Metro, Bleacher Report, The Express, HTC . . .

The amount seems excessive, but I'm hoping there is truth in the report that terms have been agreed at least.

Veysey strongly hinting also that Chelsea are about to seal the Fabregas deal.

Like he says, if Luiz is or was sold for £40m and Fabregas is available for less than £30m, no fee or wage amounts will surprise in this transfer window.

onemorechance · 10-06-2014 12:26PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't think anyone was blameless, especially Pogba and his agent. But I would agree Fergie has to shoulder some of the blame for the poor way his playing time was handled.

There might be some blame of SAF, hard to say from the outside, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt after all his years of success.

He had a philosophy throughout his time and it worked pretty much all the time, so I guess he wasn't going to break it for anyone.

MagicIRL · 10-06-2014 12:30PM

HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE HONESTLY BELIEVE THERE IS EVEN A HINT OF TRUTH TO THESE CLICK BAIT ****E MERCHANTS? IT BOGGLES MY FREAKING MIND!

Maximus Alexander · 10-06-2014 12:31PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE HONESTLY BELIEVE THERE IS EVEN A HINT OF TRUTH TO THIS CLICK BAIT ****E MERCHANTS? IT BOGGLES MY FREAKING MIND!

No need to shout Aciiiiiiiiiiid.

Robson99 · 10-06-2014 12:33PM

onemorechance wrote: »

He had a philosophy throughout his time and it worked pretty much all the time, so I guess he wasn't going to break it for anyone.

Fergie always believed in giving youth a chance. Except when it came to Pogba. Could never figure it out

onemorechance · 10-06-2014 12:36PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Fergie always believed in giving youth a chance. Except when it came to Pogba. Could never figure it out

I think he was not happy with his attitude, maybe he was too arrogant or something and SAF wanted him to be a lose a bit of that.

10-06-2014 12:56PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't think anyone was blameless, especially Pogba and his agent. But I would agree Fergie has to shoulder some of the blame for the poor way his playing time was handled.

I thought Pogba was reportedly 'a bit mad in the head / Diva' and Fergie could not be arsed micro-managing him?

It is regrettable that he left on a free, but buying him back would be a awful sickener.

keane2097 · 10-06-2014 01:01PM

Ferguson was crap at managing young players in a lot of the second half of his career. He sent loads of very talented players out on lolbad loans where they didn't get a kick, and his version of "development" for those that stayed at United was to never play them even when it meant playing senior player bizarrely out of position instead, or if he did play them make it in a position they're not comfortable in as often as possible.

Rafael playing CM, Scholes coming out of retirement etc., if I was a kid as talented as Pogba conversations with my agent would have been along the lines of "this old **** hasn't a clue, get me out of here and I'll be top 5 in Europe this time next year".

Leftist · 10-06-2014 01:06PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Ferguson was crap at managing young players in a lot of the second half of his career. He sent loads of very talented players out on lolbad loans where they didn't get a kick, and his version of "development" for those that stayed at United was to never play them even when it meant playing senior player bizarrely out of position instead, or if he did play them make it in a position they're not comfortable in as often as possible.

not sure about this. Even the class of 92 were in their early 20s by 1995 iirc.

he also bled in Ronaldo and Rooney to great affect during the second half of his united career.

Chico, Smalling, Jones, De Gea, Rafael, all young players given a chance.

He hated the attitude of Pogba and Morrison hence why he didn't continue with them. Not a question of not trusting youth.

Timmyctc · 10-06-2014 01:06PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Ferguson was crap at managing young players in a lot of the second half of his career. He sent loads of very talented players out on lolbad loans where they didn't get a kick, and his version of "development" for those that stayed at United was to never play them even when it meant playing senior player bizarrely out of position instead, or if he did play them make it in a position they're not comfortable in as often as possible.

Rafael playing CM, Scholes coming out of retirement etc., if I was a kid as talented as Pogba conversations with my agent would have been along the lines of "this old **** hasn't a clue, get me out of here and I'll be top 5 in Europe this time next year".

Tbf. Scholes came out of retirement and absolutely bossed it.

Will I Amnt · 10-06-2014 01:10PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Is there generally a correlation between transfer fee and wages?
Wouldn't the wage range that some suggested (£60/70K pw) put him amongst the lowest paid of £25M players?

That would be offset by the correlation between age and wages. £60/70K would have him right at the top end if not the very top for players still in their teens.

keane2097 · 10-06-2014 01:12PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

Tbf. Scholes came out of retirement and absolutely bossed it.

The way Pogba has bossed it since joining Juventus or just the "United midfield is so bad that any improvement will do" type of bossing?

Winston Payne · 10-06-2014 01:14PM

Are we going to be going over Pogba in 2020 lads?

keane2097 · 10-06-2014 01:16PM

Leftist wrote: »

not sure about this. Even the class of 92 were in their early 20s by 1995 iirc.

he also bled in Ronaldo and Rooney to great affect during the second half of his united career.

Chico, Smalling, Jones, De Gea, Rafael, all young players given a chance.

He hated the attitude of Pogba and Morrison hence why he didn't continue with them. Not a question of not trusting youth.

Bled in Ronaldo. Grand. Presumably it would have been possible to **** that one up but might have taken a fair bit.

Rooney was stifled by Ferguson for a lot of his career. Another example of a player being routinely played out of position, has had most of his success despite Ferguson rather than because of him.

Smalling and Jones are on the cusp of being ruined mainly due to being played out of position IMO.

Rafael hasn't improved notably in five years, still makes the same mistakes he did as a youngster albeit he's a decent player.

De Gea laughably mismanaged by Ferguson early on, him being dropped for Lindegaard was a joke.

Not convinced really.

Backstreet Moyes · 10-06-2014 01:18PM

Leftist wrote: »

not sure about this. Even the class of 92 were in their early 20s by 1995 iirc.

he also bled in Ronaldo and Rooney to great affect during the second half of his united career.

Chico, Smalling, Jones, De Gea, Rafael, all young players given a chance.

He hated the attitude of Pogba and Morrison hence why he didn't continue with them. Not a question of not trusting youth.

Smalling was developed poorly.

Jones was developed poorly.

De Gea cost 18 million and was a quality young keeper.

Rafael i agree with.

Chico yes he done alright with.

bangkok · 10-06-2014 01:24PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Ferguson was crap at managing young players in a lot of the second half of his career. He sent loads of very talented players out on lolbad loans where they didn't get a kick, and his version of "development" for those that stayed at United was to never play them even when it meant playing senior player bizarrely out of position instead, or if he did play them make it in a position they're not comfortable in as often as possible.

Rafael playing CM, Scholes coming out of retirement etc., if I was a kid as talented as Pogba conversations with my agent would have been along the lines of "this old **** hasn't a clue, get me out of here and I'll be top 5 in Europe this time next year".

what a pile of crap, he developed loads of players and turned Ronaldo into one of the best players to ever play the game.

and this crack of fergie let pogba go, it was ferguson who wanted him to sign the 30k contract on offer but he wanted a lot more money and Juve were giving him a 2m signing on fee. any time pogba did start a game as well he was often very poor. remember he started a league cup game against leeds and was awful, taken off after 60m. it was game like that he was meant to shine in, maybe if he stayed another year he could have been a lot better but it was POGBA who chose to leave, nothing fergie or united could have done as his contact was up

MagicIRL · 10-06-2014 01:28PM

Just got Croatia in the sweepstakes in work.

Leftist · 10-06-2014 01:29PM

pogba will end up doing an anelka. Not arsed about him tbh.

Ed The Equalizer · 10-06-2014 01:29PM

bangkok wrote: »

if your a toni kroos or a pogba etc you prob grew up in awe of Manchester united and pogba was at united before so might jump at the chance to go back. We have one of the best stadiums in the world, sold out every week in the biggest league in the world that also pays the highest wages, why would you not want to join. I think that toni kroos brother said the whole family supported united. We are one of the biggest sporting teams in the world and next season is the beginning of a new "project".

You sound like you're young and you've only supported United in the Premiership years.

Back in the 80s we were way behind Liverpool and a similar draw to Arsenal and Spurs. If foreigners had been coming to England we would have been way behind Barca, Real, Milan, Juve and maybe even more teams.

Once we started winning under Fergie we became the biggest draw in England and hoovered up some great domestic based players, but very few great foreigners.

And now we've been overtaken by the moneybags - Chelsea, City, PSG, and perhaps Monaco - and are still behind the likes of Real, Barca and Bayern.

While the debt is still being repaid this is not going to change, and perhaps is a consequence of being a PLC in the first place and leaving the club open to a leveraged buyout.

If we can hang in there until the debt is repaid, suddenly things look good, or if the Glazers sell to someone super rich. But until then there's absolutely no point getting our hopes up that we're going to sign the best players in the world.

It's never happened before and it's not going to any time soon.

Maximus Alexander · 10-06-2014 01:31PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Just got Croatia in the sweepstakes in work.

You think that's bad? I got England. :pac:

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

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