Brown envelopes alive and well in Dublins property

stmol32 · 10-06-2014 12:22PM

Heatmachine1 wrote: »

I have heard from several well connected individuals .....

.....I was speaking to a man this wknd with a good bit of property in Dublin

Well that's all the proof I need - to the Rumourtron!!!

steddyeddy · 10-06-2014 12:32PM

seamus wrote: »

You mean private entities transferring property in exchange for money, in private??! Those dastards!!!

Corruption is paying a liquidator a wad of cash to dispose of their clients' property at a drastically reduced rate, or bribing a local councillor to rezone your land and fast track your planning applications.

Simply doing deals in private is not corruption.

I take it you have no problem with jobs being paid with cash in hand either? Doing deals for large sums of money in private may not be illegal but we need to move towards a more respectable way of doing business.

PizzamanIRL · 10-06-2014 12:47PM

I got a brown envelope today in the post. The stamp wasn't stamped by the post office. Oh baby!

Davarus Walrus · 10-06-2014 12:54PM

There was a class of online punter a few years ago who were under the impression they'd be able to purchase a house in a decent location for about the price of a small family car. While prices dropped they are now making a recovery, and some people are now making a nice bit of money. This really annoys the begrudgers and the neckbeards, who hate to see anyone do well for themselves.

I bought an investment property two years ago. I sold it last month for a profit of €107,500. I won't lose sleep over the fact I made that money, or that somehow my actions is contributing to an uneven property market.

Potatoeman · 10-06-2014 01:27PM

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

There was a class of online punter a few years ago who were under the impression they'd be able to purchase a house in a decent location for about the price of a small family car. While prices dropped they are now making a recovery, and some people are now making a nice bit of money. This really annoys the begrudgers and the neckbeards, who hate to see anyone do well for themselves.

I bought an investment property two years ago. I sold it last month for a profit of €107,500. I won't lose sleep over the fact I made that money, or that somehow my actions is contributing to an uneven property market.

People are annoyed for many reasons. We didnt really fix the problems around property. Renting is still seen as a short term living arrangement.
People are still in properties they are not paying for. The government are propping up the pyramid scheme that is the property market and not prepared for intetest hikes.

seamus · 10-06-2014 01:29PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I take it you have no problem with jobs being paid with cash in hand either? Doing deals for large sums of money in private may not be illegal but we need to move towards a more respectable way of doing business.

How is that in any way comparable?

You can't transfer property without filling out the correct paperwork. The price(s) paid and the duties paid are a matter of public record. So there's nothing being hidden here.

Buzz Killington the third · 10-06-2014 01:37PM

I've read the op a few times and still can't see the issue, sounds like a pretty normal case of cash buyers.

Fighting Irish · 10-06-2014 01:48PM

Heatmachine1 wrote: »

I have heard from several well connected individuals about dodgy dealings being the way in Irelands property landscape.
I was speaking to a man this wknd with a good bit of property in Dublin who said the amount of brown envelopes changing hands is far greater than the boom.
These concern investors buying in multiples and properties not even let on the open market.
Blocks of apartments and hotels,15-20 houses at a snap for a bargain price.
Is this always going to be the way in Ireland,backhanders and secret payments while the general public gets s screwed.

Backhanders and secret payments go on all over the place, maybe not as big as the ones you might be pointing out

The Diabolical Monocle · 10-06-2014 02:32PM

Gambas wrote: »

And now it looks like Irish Water is to be the new cause celebré of the vocally ignorant.

Preposterous.

Cause is a feminine singular noun.

Cause célèbre.

Check your e acute accents n*gga.

Harsh I know but he wont do it again.

The Diabolical Monocle · 10-06-2014 02:35PM

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

There was a class of online punter a few years ago who were under the impression they'd be able to purchase a house in a decent location for about the price of a small family car. While prices dropped they are now making a recovery, and some people are now making a nice bit of money. This really annoys the begrudgers and the neckbeards, who hate to see anyone do well for themselves.

I bought an investment property two years ago. I sold it last month for a profit of €107,500. I won't lose sleep over the fact I made that money, or that somehow my actions is contributing to an uneven property market.

Davarus Davarus, you're looking marvelous my friend.
Take a seat. Oh Ive forgotten my wallet.

endacl · 10-06-2014 02:36PM

Heatmachine1 wrote: »

This is the present thats the past that only an injuiry can get answers to.
its deoressing but I try not read the papers on such matters.

Heh?

jimgoose · 10-06-2014 02:38PM

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

...I bought an investment property two years ago. I sold it last month for a profit of €107,500. I won't lose sleep over the fact I made that money, or that somehow my actions is contributing to an uneven property market.

Excellent. We invite you to do The Dance:

The Dagda · 10-06-2014 04:38PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

IBRC liquidation springs to mind. I thought the purpose of a liquidation was to sell assets off for as much as possible. But they rejected offers from the homeowners and accepted a seriously cheaper price from someone else.

Go figure.

Anglo didn't do residential mortgages so homeowners couldn't have made offers.

10-06-2014 04:40PM

The Dagda wrote: »

Anglo didn't do residential mortgages so homeowners couldn't have made offers.

Irish nationwide did and they are/were part of IBRC.

The Dagda · 10-06-2014 04:41PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

That's appalling whataboutary. Also a false dilemma. We can get mad about both.

YOU can get angry about whatever YOU want, my post was directed at the OP and his vague rumours which frankly I don't believe.

And it was not "whataboutary", I was simply pointing out that there's enough real stuff to get angry about, without getting angry at imaginary things...

folan · 10-06-2014 04:46PM

Heatmachine1 wrote: »

I have heard from several well connected individuals about dodgy dealings being the way in Irelands property landscape.
I was speaking to a man this wknd with a good bit of property in Dublin who said the amount of brown envelopes changing hands is far greater than the boom.
These concern investors buying in multiples and properties not even let on the open market.
Blocks of apartments and hotels,15-20 houses at a snap for a bargain price.
Is this always going to be the way in Ireland,backhanders and secret payments while the general public gets s screwed.

im sorry, whats happening here?

Trading of money for property? or property for property? private sales?

where are the brown envelopes?

OP, if you know of illegal activity, please report it to AGS.

The Dagda · 10-06-2014 04:48PM

conorhal wrote: »

This post makes me angry. The potential for billions to be defrauded from the taxpayer that's already bailing out the failures of the state to regulate a sector isn't a big problem?

I hear anecdotal evidence of builders that have gone bankrupt, who caused the state to bail out the banks because they could not repay loans, buying back the same properties at a fraction of the cost that their debts were written off for.
But sure, let's exercise ourselves about a 70yr old crime instead, because there's plenty of time to get angry about this 2084 perhaps?

You've drawn rather a lot from the OP's vague rumours.

Your anecdotal evidence is just as believable as the OP's i.e. not believable. NAMA cannot sell an asset or loan back to the original owner. It's illegal to do so.

The Dagda · 10-06-2014 05:00PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Irish nationwide did and they are/were part of IBRC.

Yes, I forgot about that. In any case the loans were all sold off in large blocks to institutions. I don't believe there was ever any facility for individual borrowers to buy individual loans.

10-06-2014 05:41PM

The Dagda wrote: »

Yes, I forgot about that. In any case the loans were all sold off in large blocks to institutions. I don't believe there was ever any facility for individual borrowers to buy individual loans.

That's what I mean when I said that liquidators should be recouping as much money as possible. There has always been the facility to deal with individuals, they are collecting mortgage patents every month. Long before any bulk sale was done, they rejected serious offers from homeowners.

Total madness.

Tail Docker · 10-06-2014 09:48PM

The Dagda wrote: »

You've drawn rather a lot from the OP's vague rumours.

Your anecdotal evidence is just as believable as the OP's i.e. not believable. NAMA cannot sell an asset or loan back to the original owner. It's illegal to do so.

Very true. Now their huband/wife/partner/mate - they're aok though. And before you say "Oh no they didn't!", Oh yes they did. Lots of times.

steddyeddy · 10-06-2014 10:00PM

seamus wrote: »

How is that in any way comparable?

You can't transfer property without filling out the correct paperwork. The price(s) paid and the duties paid are a matter of public record. So there's nothing being hidden here.

Hey Seamus sorry for the retort. I thought you were justifying a brown envelope culture in its entirety. I apologise for the mistake.

Brown envelopes alive and well in Dublins property

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